GEC Quality Control Issues

I would like to hear from the OP his experiences with GEC'S Customer Service. Surely he would give the Manufacturer an opportunity at Warranty Service before complaining on an International Internet Forum.
 
Be careful man, the GEC faithful will get you. I think a lot of people who buy GEC's do so to collect, not to use. That's why you'll hear things like, I have 50, 100 or whatever and NO issues. Kinda hard to use that many knives, as tools, on a day to day bassis. No company that produces as many knives as GEC are going to go without issue and if you use a knife as it was intended, a tool, some are going to show production issues (all companies). I only own 5 GEC's and all but one has been sent back. Most where cosmetic issues but one, a #15, had horrible blade wobble. Tread lightly my friend. GEC's faithful are going to make every excuse as to why it's yor fault or that you're to picky or maybe you're exaggerating. Good luck.
 
Terdl76 said:
Be careful man, the GEC faithful will get you. I think a lot of people who buy GEC's do so to collect, not to use. That's why you'll hear things like, I have 50, 100 or whatever and NO issues. Kinda hard to use that many knives, as tools, on a day to day bassis. No company that produces as many knives as GEC are going to go without issue and if you use a knife as it was intended, a tool, some are going to show production issues (all companies). I only own 5 GEC's and all but one has been sent back. Most where cosmetic issues but one, a #15, had horrible blade wobble. Tread lightly my friend. GEC's faithful are going to make every excuse as to why it's yor fault or that you're to picky or maybe you're exaggerating. Good luck.
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The Gec 15 purchased second hand? What are your experiences with GEC Customer Service?
 
#15 was purchased through TSA or KSF. The customer service is hands down. Christine is very nice and communicates very well. I just sent a #61 in a few days ago. I'm expecting a few weeks turn around.
 
Terdl76 said:
Be careful man, the GEC faithful will get you. I think a lot of people who buy GEC's do so to collect, not to use. That's why you'll hear things like, I have 50, 100 or whatever and NO issues. Kinda hard to use that many knives, as tools, on a day to day bassis. No company that produces as many knives as GEC are going to go without issue and if you use a knife as it was intended, a tool, some are going to show production issues (all companies). I only own 5 GEC's and all but one has been sent back. Most where cosmetic issues but one, a #15, had horrible blade wobble. Tread lightly my friend. GEC's faithful are going to make every excuse as to why it's yor fault or that you're to picky or maybe you're exaggerating. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Until my SFO I could honestly say I used all of them. The only one that disappointed me was the fish knife and it was cause it dulled on one fish and I was gentle! But that is another story. I have the #72 most of the complaints are about. That model and specific to the lockback is the one most zero in on and its always the clicking lock. If you study the old patterns, or more play with them and maybe even have some you can note that the old patterns, the actual knives from yesteryear that are many times copied also had some type of give or play with the same type lock of the day. I had Buck 110 and Buck 503 models that both did that also as well as Case lock backs which I still own that do it. I own and have collected quite a few of the old Sportsman series slimline Gerbers and more with example after example in my collection of the same type movement when the blades are locked up and open. None of them fail, not a single one of them was considered a second by the manufacturers or the venders selling them. Today among modern knives I hve Spydercos and Benchmades and more where some are tighter than others, some click, some are annoying and I've mailed those back to have the company decide. When building a folder we shoot for the ideal. Its got an area within that tolerance, that sweet spot for tolerance and once you are within it there is an old saying that one of the hardest things to learn in this art is knowing when to leave well enough alone. Its within tolerance, it works, and its probably not faulted or any issue of quality control but difference of opinion.. In cases like this I'd suggest private conversations about mailing it to the company to have them decide if they wish to replace it or repair it.

The argument here is not in quality control. Lets be clear what it is. The argument is just that one or two customers have opinions that differ from those of the manufacturers for what is accepted tolerance levels in lock back style knives with the long rocker arm.
 
I wasn't aware of an argument of any sort. Sorry, I think you may be barking up the wrong tree my man.
 
rma100 said:
I would like to hear from the OP his experiences with GEC'S Customer Service. Surely he would give the Manufacturer an opportunity at Warranty Service....
Click to expand...

Sure looks like he did/does (from the original post, bold is mine):
dma1965 said:
I have sent nearly all of the GEC knives back to GEC, and most of the time they fix the blade wobble on the first try, so I know they can produce knives without wobble, and fix them if they do.

But why?

Why don't they spend a little extra time during the quality control process and not send out knives with blade wobble?
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I am interested in hearing what constitutes blade wobble to the OP, how many were sent back and how many tries it took, and if there's been any indication of what it took to fix them to his or her satisfaction.

arizonaranchman said:
The OP must have incredibly bad luck to have experienced this problem he describes. There are people who've been struck by lightning more than once before, so anything is possible.
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Yup, it can happen. Others' good experiences don't change one's own bad experience(s), and some people truly do have bad luck. On the other hand, some people's tolerances are different than factory tolerances, heh.

So, I'd like to hear more about the problem as defined by the OP-- someone who is pleased with GEC knives but puzzled about this one aspect.

~ P.
 
The reason blade play is so heavily discussed is because it is so individually percieved. We have folks that have been collecting slipjoints for 50 years that would never say a word about the same movement that would drive a tactical-turned-slipjoint guy crazy. There are folks that would have to noticed it in normal use to say something and there are those that put on their white gloves when they open the box and hold the knife in one hand while gently moving the tip of the blade between the thumb/forefinger of the other looking for discernable movement. Neither are right or wrong; but maybe some didn't read this forum before they came to post on it. If you read here for very long and hated blade movement - who in there right mind would buy a GEC lockback without the tools to run out back and take care of it right quick.

Great Eastern Cutlery has not pefected the joint tension on lockback knives. I can find a little movement using 2nd method above in 30-50% of the lockbacks. Queen's percentage is much higher, but the same guy probably designed those as well. Most patterns, which actually have some snap open / closed, in other brands run a similar percentage in my experience. You either slam the joint tight or shim it. Buck seems to do a really good job finding the happy medium.

Some folks hate play, some hate any daylight in the back, same hate a non-razor factory edge, same hate being happy. We all have that option and since it is our money buying the knife - we all get to decide on our own. But about the 10th knife from a certain maker that I had to send back, I would probably walk away. Unless I just really enjoyed posting on forums about disappointments in knives.

I personally have found play in a factory fresh non-lockback GEC maybe three times in seven years; which would probably equate to 1 in 25,000+. Bill despises open backsprings and slipjoints with play; that is why the backsprings are so stout - so he can pound the joint closed and still have the pressure to get some snap.

The OP has his right to like or dislike what he wants. It is just disheartening when another "lockback blade play" thread opens up as I know it will cost GEC business in a time when they can't afford to be losing business. Despite what the guy on tv says, this economy is killing small companies like GEC by taking away the expendable income of the normal American.
 
knifeswapper said:
The OP has his right to like or dislike what he wants. It is just disheartening when another "lockback blade play" thread opens up....
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Oh, I understand. Still, do we know yet that that's what this is? I haven't heard the OP mention lockbacks yet. Not that the odds don't suggest that's what's coming next. ;) Now that this one's been opened, more specifics would be helpful-- or a closure and swift sinking.

~ P.
 
I have at least 12+ GEC folders. The only ones that have any blade play are my two lockbacks. There is a small amount of vertical play in the locks. Not enough to make me concerned.

That said I have many lockbacks in my small collection (15+) and the GECs are the only ones with a lock that wiggles. The other lockbacks that don't have any lock play are from Buck, Schrade Old Timers & Uncle Henry, Case, Camillus, Rough Rider and Sog.

I do wonder why GEC can't get their lockbacks right when so many others do it right.

Tom
 
I only have 4 GEC knives and none of them have a problem with blade play in any direction. What they DO have a problem with
is absurdly high pull and less than acceptable sharpness. The pull I understand is something typical of the brand but I simply don't
get the QC involved in shipping a dull knife. Does anyone really like paying a premium price for a butter knife?
 
Terdl76 said:
Be careful man, the GEC faithful will get you. I think a lot of people who buy GEC's do so to collect, not to use. That's why you'll hear things like, I have 50, 100 or whatever and NO issues. Kinda hard to use that many knives, as tools, on a day to day bassis. No company that produces as many knives as GEC are going to go without issue and if you use a knife as it was intended, a tool, some are going to show production issues (all companies). I only own 5 GEC's and all but one has been sent back. Most where cosmetic issues but one, a #15, had horrible blade wobble. Tread lightly my friend. GEC's faithful are going to make every excuse as to why it's yor fault or that you're to picky or maybe you're exaggerating. Good luck.
Click to expand...

And that's your first post in Traditionals, and your first substantive post in the entire forum?!
 
31 replies and counting but as yet no response from the OP to the many questions asked in clarification of his start of this thread. HHMMM.
 
We All have our pet peeves however, GEC is making the best built slip joints on earth for the most part. Their wise choice to do short runs must also be a bit of a pain as many runs are brand new patterns where a learning curve is happening. IMO GEC is getting better by the day.

Best regards

Robin
 
So I see this thread stirred up some discussion. First of all, let me state that I think GEC knives are great knives. I am happy to see a company making classic knives with such high quality fit and finish. That is why I keep buying them.

To answer some of the questions, at the expense of some re-iteration:

1. I define wobble as ANY lateral movement when the blade is opened and I grip it and move it side to side. I will restate that I have seen a total of one blade on one older SAK that had even the slightest wobble, so the SAK remains my gold standard.

2. The first GEC knife I sent in for blade wobble came back and still had blade wobble. I sent it back again and they fixed it properly (no blade wobble).

3. Another I sent in had the blade wobble fixed, but they ground off the serial number. I sent it back and they engraved a new serial number on it, but with a rather plain block lettering instead of the original florid script.

4. Christine Tucker is ALWAYS a kind, gracious, polite, and patient customer service representative. She gets the highest marks from me in that regard.

5. The models I have vary. I have everything from congress knives, to whittlers, to trappers.

6. The only model I have not had any wobble on is the 72 and 73 trappers models. I have around 10 of those and not one has any blade wobble.

7. The most common models with blade wobble are the ones with 3 or more blades. I assume it must be more difficult to get those right.

8. I have not sent all the knives I have with blade wobble back. Some of the knives have barely perceptible blade wobble, and I let well enough be. Sometimes I just fix it myself with a vice and then some re-polishing.

9. Again, I will admit I have high standards in this regard. The SAK's I own have literally no perceptible wobble on any blade, so I am expecting something handmade to have tolerances as tight as something mass produced through what I guess is some sort of Swiss perfected method. Perhaps this is unreasonable.

10. While I also love Queen knives, they seem to have even more wobble problems.

11. As a child I did indeed break toys. As an adult I always try to buy the best quality knowing full well that I tend to break things that are not well made.

12. I will continue to buy GEC knives and do what I can to support them, because it makes me happy to see an American company doing what they are doing in this world of mass produced low quality imported knives (SAK knives excepted). In fact, I just pre-ordered one of their new Radio knives.
 
I usually judge blade wobble on the see vs feel scale. There are some knives where I can feel little bit of movement when I apply pressure to the blade. On others, I've been able to see the blade moving back and forth at the pivot. For me, the former is fine, the latter needs some professional attention.

I only have experience with one GEC I used to own, but the blades on that one didn't have any discernible wobble that I can remember. The same cannot be said for most of the NEW Schrades I've handled over the years.
 
knifeswapper said:
The reason blade play is so heavily discussed is because it is so individually percieved. We have folks that have been collecting slipjoints for 50 years that would never say a word about the same movement that would drive a tactical-turned-slipjoint guy crazy. There are folks that would have to noticed it in normal use to say something and there are those that put on their white gloves when they open the box and hold the knife in one hand while gently moving the tip of the blade between the thumb/forefinger of the other looking for discernable movement. Neither are right or wrong; but maybe some didn't read this forum before they came to post on it. If you read here for very long and hated blade movement - who in there right mind would buy a GEC lockback without the tools to run out back and take care of it right quick.

Great Eastern Cutlery has not pefected the joint tension on lockback knives. I can find a little movement using 2nd method above in 30-50% of the lockbacks. Queen's percentage is much higher, but the same guy probably designed those as well. Most patterns, which actually have some snap open / closed, in other brands run a similar percentage in my experience. You either slam the joint tight or shim it. Buck seems to do a really good job finding the happy medium.

Some folks hate play, some hate any daylight in the back, same hate a non-razor factory edge, same hate being happy. We all have that option and since it is our money buying the knife - we all get to decide on our own. But about the 10th knife from a certain maker that I had to send back, I would probably walk away. Unless I just really enjoyed posting on forums about disappointments in knives.

I personally have found play in a factory fresh non-lockback GEC maybe three times in seven years; which would probably equate to 1 in 25,000+. Bill despises open backsprings and slipjoints with play; that is why the backsprings are so stout - so he can pound the joint closed and still have the pressure to get some snap.

The OP has his right to like or dislike what he wants. It is just disheartening when another "lockback blade play" thread opens up as I know it will cost GEC business in a time when they can't afford to be losing business. Despite what the guy on tv says, this economy is killing small companies like GEC by taking away the expendable income of the normal American.
Click to expand...

Mike, none of my knives are lock backs. Also, I do not dislike GECs, nor do I like posting about disappointment. I actually love GEC knives and have bought quite a few because of that. In fact, I have bought quite a few from you.

Now I will say the ones I have gotten from you have all been wobble free. Others came off this forum or from eBay. It is possible that the ones I have purchased off of this forum or eBay may be ones that were sold because they were less than perfect.

If my post causes GEC to lose business that was not my intention. I also do not believe my post is going to have that much negative impact. I will restate that I continue to buy GEC knives and will continue to buy them as long as they are in business.
 
Sorry to hear you are having some bad luck dma1965, and sorry you're having to catch flack here.

Hope your luck with GEC turns around.
Good luck.
 
dma1965, I thought your post explaining many of the questions that have come up was well done, and certainly fair enough. And I agree about Swiss Army Knives being a gold standard. Pretty amazing quality control and production techniques considering the sheer number of them that are produced.

One comment about the original post, and your follow up: I know hindsight is 20/20, but it would have been good to mention, initially, that the knives you were less than satisfied with were from previous owners rather than from vendors. The first post kind of implies that the random purchase of GEC knives would lead to a seemingly higher than average number of issues. To know that the knives with issues (at least as far as what you require) had been offered up for sale by previous owners (very possibly because of the issues) puts a little different light on things IMO.
 
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