GEC to Schrade - a Stockman Comparison

Haha - oh yes Jake matey I know that pattern all too well! This reminds me - I must go have a look and see just what I have in the Stockman/ with Punch - I recently retipped Harrys lil’ Beaut that he gifted me @ the Rendezvous- and man I can tell you that that Wicked little Punch has done some Work!

Jeff my friend- I will try to keep you in mind if I ever do mange to find that Elusive 8813 - I’m thinking the real pressure would be letting it go lol.
 
Thanks for starting this interesting thread, Jeff!, And thanks Paul T. for showing the beautiful Schrades and additional measurements.
Since I haven't carried a stockman for several years now, I cannot comment on the fine details of using them, but for looks, I slightly favor the old Schrades over the GECs #81s.
I suspect however, the wide yet thin-ground main blade of the #81 would be a fine slicer!!
I'd like to add a couple of pics for comparison of the old Schrades.
The first pic has an 8883 with "oblique" bolsters. and the
second pic has an 8833 with a punch, an ss8813, and a saber-hollowground 880.
Square stockman comp 1.jpg Square stockman comp 2.jpg
 
I see that no one has ever did a comparison of the steel of both knives..Both have 1095 but which has a better heat treat as in edge retention,I think when it comes down to it that is a important aspect of a knife.Hope some has done something like that.Lou
 
I've never heard anyone complain about either one, so there probably isn't much to choose between them. I believe both are hardened to similar levels, around 58 HRc, plus or minus.
 
Nice knives, Charlie :thumbsup:

louied said:
I see that no one has ever did a comparison of the steel of both knives..Both have 1095 but which has a better heat treat as in edge retention,I think when it comes down to it that is a important aspect of a knife.Hope some has done something like that.Lou
Click to expand...

I haven't used Rockwell equipment to test the hardness of the blades but I have used and sharpened the 81 and several other stock knives from GEC. And I've used and sharpened stock knives from Schrade quite a bit... the first knife that I purchased was a Schrade 8OT (my very first knife was a gift, a Swiss army knife).

Not long ago someone posted the heat treat schedule and hardness used by Schrade from... around the 1970s if I recall correctly. Very respectable numbers. I think I have a page with the values from the 2000s but I'd need to dig to find it.

I can tell you for sure that I enjoy using both. I think edge retention is a bit better on the $100 GEC than the $20 Schrade from 2000. Certainly nothing to complain about. On the 100 year old knives, the edge retention probably wouldn't be as good.

Edge retention is just one part of performance. If you look back at my photo of the well, you'll see some differences in the grinds and materials as well. The Schrade has a greater taper especially at the tip of the main clip blade. Also the Schrade has the same stock thickness for the main and secondary blades whereas the GEC uses thinner stock for the secondary blades.

I'm happy to have GEC but I do miss the old Schrade.

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louied said:
I see that no one has ever did a comparison of the steel of both knives..Both have 1095 but which has a better heat treat as in edge retention,I think when it comes down to it that is a important aspect of a knife.Hope some has done something like that.Lou
Click to expand...

For somebody to do that would require having both knives with a similar amount of blade wear (a worn blade is thicker, blade thickness is a factor in sharpening and sharpening is a factor in edge retention) so a worn 8813 would not be as accurate to compare. Both would have to be sharpened to the same grit and angle using the same method and conduct a series of tests that have to be able to be repeated at least several times with each knife. The test results would have to be measured (for example so many cuts through such and such material before dulling completely). The reason the test would need repetition multiple times with each knife is necessary to insure a fairly accurate test, a one time test would be completely random. In essence the repetitive testing roots out random factors that would alter the results. This would require a fresh sharpening for each test.

I'm not opposed to doing such a test, but I will not do something like that with a knife as scarce as an 8813. It's just not worth the risk of damaging any 8813 in nice condition. That is the same reason why I scarcely carry my 8813. Of course a minty unsharpened one should NEVER be carried or sharpened.

The GEC steel is likely a bit harder than the old schrades so it could potentially be superior, I can't say with certainty however. Testing a more recent schrade would be a pretty good test however and would not bring harm to something irreplaceable.
 
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I obstained from this thread for awhile as I don’t have a schrade. I do have an uncle Henry that was my grandfathers. I am on the lookout for a good old schrade in carbon steel, but just haven’t run across one yet. One will come along one day.

Meanwhile, I thought it a good time to assemble all my stockman knives for a group shot. I do prefer slightly smaller at 3 7/8” but the 4” gec is a great knife to me. My favorite stockman knives have pen and wharncliff blades (the al Warren is equipped that way and is wonderful to use). I’m still waiting on a couple of customs to add, One being from kawamura, but he’s had some family problems that has delayed his knife making.

The Moore maker is the perfect size. And the sheepsfoot opening right handed is awesome (all three blades open right handed). The Turkish clip main isn’t my favorite but it’s still nearly a perfect stockman knife.
 
SVT that's a nice collection. There's nothing like a good stock or cattle knife, I have more than will fit in a picture. :cool:

Your 885 appears in good condition. I have an 885 that was allegedly my grandfathers (nobody knows for sure) it's a factory 2nd and was roughed around so it is retired now.

When you say you're looking for a good old schrade in carbon steel, do you mean like a pre-swinden peachseed or a swinden delrin variety?
 
Here is the tidioute side by side with the 8813. The tip of the master on the 8813 is a little short, but otherwise it's all there. I will harp on schrade over anything all day long, but dang I love these 81's and I NEED more.

IMG_4663.JPG
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IMG_4666.JPG

The 81 looks beefier upon first glance, but it's not quite so.
 
This type of thread is why the porch is such a great place to hang out. There are some real beauties here and I just wanted to thank everyone posting them for taking the time to share.
 
Nice knives, guys!

TheChunk91 said:
For somebody to do that would require having both knives with a similar amount of blade wear (a worn blade is thicker, blade thickness is a factor in sharpening and sharpening is a factor in edge retention) so a worn 8813 would not be as accurate to compare. Both would have to be sharpened to the same grit and angle using the same method and conduct a series of tests that have to be able to be repeated at least several times with each knife. The test results would have to be measured (for example so many cuts through such and such material before dulling completely). The reason the test would need repetition multiple times with each knife is necessary to insure a fairly accurate test, a one time test would be completely random. In essence the repetitive testing roots out random factors that would alter the results. This would require a fresh sharpening for each test.

I'm not opposed to doing such a test, but I will not do something like that with a knife as scarce as an 8813. It's just not worth the risk of damaging any 8813 in nice condition. That is the same reason why I scarcely carry my 8813. Of course a minty unsharpened one should NEVER be carried or sharpened.

The GEC steel is likely a bit harder than the old schrades so it could potentially be superior, I can't say with certainty however. Testing a more recent schrade would be a pretty good test however and would not bring harm to something irreplaceable.
Click to expand...

There are definitely a lot of variables to control, especially since Schrade was around for so many years. I definitely don't disagree. My prior comments were just my own observations from using knives from both companies. If someone had an interest in doing a test, you'd need to test lots of knives to cover many years or select a narrow range. Knives that are mint are hard to find for the early years. And testing a knife that had been fluffed and buffed would not be fair. It would actually ruin the test. And you'd want to use a test that isn't going to be affected much by differences in the geometry and thickness of the blades... maybe paper cutting since that is mostly just the edge that is determining the performance. Might be difficult to quantify. Would probably be qualitative unless you can borrow testing equipment from Buck, Benchmade, etc. And you'd need to sharpen each knife with the same angle. Unless there's a substantial N value, it would be a case study but that is still meaningful within the context. Lots of variables to control!

00owafU.jpg
 
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TheChunk91 said:
SVT that's a nice collection. There's nothing like a good stock or cattle knife, I have more than will fit in a picture. :cool:

Your 885 appears in good condition. I have an 885 that was allegedly my grandfathers (nobody knows for sure) it's a factory 2nd and was roughed around so it is retired now.

When you say you're looking for a good old schrade in carbon steel, do you mean like a pre-swinden peachseed or a swinden delrin variety?
Click to expand...

Thanks! It’s growing.

The 885 was definitely my grandfathers. I’ve seen it clean more rabbits than can be counted. I took it (with permission from the family) from his desk the day after he died myself. It and the tiny kabar, which was my great grandfathers.

Something like your 8813 in the post (with the green 81) would be what I’m looking for. As far as pre or post Swindon, I know nothing about that. I really know very little about knife history, only what appeals to me visually and what I know I would like. I do want jigged bone over the Delrin variety.

I also wouldn’t mind adding a spring green 81 to my collection, but I won’t spend the currently going prices for one, so that may never happen. I’ve lost two in the big auction site when they went for really outrageous prices.
 
SVTFreak said:
Something like your 8813 in the post (with the green 81) would be what I’m looking for. As far as pre or post Swindon, I know nothing about that. I really know very little about knife history, only what appeals to me visually and what I know I would like. I do want jigged bone over the Delrin variety.
Click to expand...

Swinden came around in the early 60's and the knives changed quite a bit with the new system. Generally bone schrades are pre swinden but there were likely some crossovers. There are also a few very nice swinden versions in bone.
 
Jeff, Jake, Duncan, and esp. Charlie: if you get tired of all those Cattlemen or Cattlemen Stockmen with punches, you just send them to me, I won’t mind a bit! I’ll just take them out for a little cleaning and fondling, then put them right away. Some in my pocket, some in the safe, some on display-you get the idea. Poor fellers-be strong!:D:rolleyes:
Thanks, Neal
PS-great photos all, especially Charlie!
 
Thanks Jeff, Duncan, Jake, Paul T, and Neal!

Nice collections SVT and Jeff!!
 
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