Gen 6 XM-18: Flip or Flop?

[DRLyman]

I've never owned a Hinderer with a detent too strong. Or a ZT for that matter.
Have a few ZTs I wish had slightly stronger detents...

Sarcasm on. Oh, yes you have. You and I both owned Full Tracks

 

[BellaBlades]

The gen 6 is a flop for me. I find the tri-way to be a bit much.

If you like bearing specifically. They are fine I suppose. But I own specifically Gen 4 for those reasons as well as no lock bar insert.

Just my opinion. I explained further in other threads . The finish was great for sure on the new ones. Just not a fan of the fit.

If they came in just PB without the silly spacers that would be enough to change my mind and buy another 6 to try .

 

[Biochemdawg]

I still run my gen 6 on Teflon. Hinderer flip great and I think the new gen seems more consistent in terms of detent/action. I own two 3”, a skinny, and a half track all with tri-way. The half track is the only one I kept the bearings in. I own about seven early generations of Hinderer and the all flip fine, but not all as consistent. Hope that makes sense!

 

[sgt1372]

BTW, I bought my Gen 6 XM-18 3.0 Slicer from Brian at Slicey-Dicey and this is a video of the actual knife that I bought from him:

He starts flipping it at about 2:30 mins.

Update: I've since sold my Gen 6 3.0 but it wasn't because it didn't flip well. I just found it too small and really didn't "need" it, given that I already owned all of the ZT/Hinderer variations (in one form or the other).

 

[KVT]

Sarcasm on. Oh, yes you have. You and I both owned Full Tracks

My Full Track's detent was great - like perfect.
The lock-bar tension and lock stick are what was awful.
Detent and firing was perfect - I hope my next one is that strong.

 

[DRLyman]

My Full Track's detent was great - like perfect.
The lock-bar tension and lock stick are what was awful.
Detent and firing was perfect - I hope my next one is that strong.

That’s right. I was remembering it wrong. The main thing I remember was that last time I flipped it open and it totally locked itself up. I had to pry the lock bar back to get it free. DLT was great about it, though.

 

[whitty]

I personally think this thread shows exactly what is wrong with so many of us knife nuts. There is no way to make everyone happy. All Hinderer heard for years was their knives did not flip well and who would pay that kind of money for a knife that is on teflon. Heck look through the countless threads on here to prove my point. Rick found a very simplistic way to make it to where knife nuts of all kinds were able to get the bearing/washer of their choice and some knife nuts still are not happy.

Personally I think Rick hit a freaking grand slam with the tri way pivot/Gen 6 (Gen 6/3/2 depending on the model). The added spacers do not make it more complicated, it is nothing more than one more piece of steel to take up the space of the bearings. That is not over complicating a damn thing. Now lets talk about the steel lock bar insert. The lock bar insert was a great way to make sure that if for some reason you beat the heck out of your knife and ruined the lock up, that your entire knife was no longer trash. It is a way that many knife makers before Rick found to make a simple fix so that you could keep your knife for the many generations it was designed to last and function in.

Now there are complaints of some lock stick. Well here is the 411 for you on that. Lock stick happened before the new steel insert. It was very rare back then and it is very rare now. Lock stick happens on all knives across all models. The difference is some threads get started about it and some don't. The lock stick on the Full Track has been reported at less than 10 incidents from the ranch. 10 out of more than 500 that have found happy homes with no problems.

The reality is that Hinderer knives is crushing it. They are on top of their game and making knives 100% worthy of the money a customer pays. Sure they have a few that have issues, but every company does. They fix it quick and take care of their customers. Despite some folks believing that Hinderer knives is a mega million dollar company with 100s of employees, they are not. They are less than 20 employees who are devoted to putting out a quality high end knife made in the USA. Rick wants to constantly be an innovator, and he wants his company to continue to put out the best knife to the market. He proved that by introducing the Tri Way Pivot system, the Steel Lock Insert and improving detent strength. While it may not make every knife collector/user happy, no knife ever will!

 

[falar]

I personally think this thread shows exactly what is wrong with so many of us knife nuts. There is no way to make everyone happy. All Hinderer heard for years was their knives did not flip well and who would pay that kind of money for a knife that is on teflon. Heck look through the countless threads on here to prove my point. He found a very simplistic way to make it to where knife nuts of all kinds were able to get the bearing/washer of their choice and some knife nuts still are not happy.

Personally I think Rick hit a freaking grand slam with the tri way pivot/Gen 6 (Gen 6/3/2 depending on the model). The added spacers do not make it more complicated, it is nothing more than one more piece of steel to take up the space of the bearings. That is not over complicating a damn thing. Now lets talk about the steel lock bar insert. The lock bar insert was a great way to make sure that if for some reason you beat the heck out of your knife and ruined the lock up, that your entire knife was no longer trash. It is a way that many knife makers before Rick found to make a simple fix so that you could keep your knife for the many generations it was designed to last and function in.

Now there are complaints of some lock stick. Well here is the 411 for you on that. Lock stick happened before the new steel insert. It was very rare back then and it is very rare now. Lock stick happens on all knives across all models. The difference is some threads get started about it and some don't. The lock stick on the Full Track has been reported at less than 10 incidents from the ranch. 10 out of more than 500 that have found happy homes with no problems.

The reality is that Hinderer knives is crushing it. They are on top of their game and making knives 100% worthy of the money a customer pays. Sure they have a few that have issues, but every company does. They fix it quick and take care of their customers. Despite some folks believing that Hinderer knives is a mega million dollar company with 100s of employees, they are not. They are less than 20 employees who are devoted to putting out a quality high end knife made in the USA. Rick wants to constantly be an innovator, and he wants his company to continue to put out the best knife to the market. He proved that by introducing the Tri Way Pivot system, the Steel Lock Insert and improving detent strength. While it may not make every knife collector/user happy, no knife ever will!

I couldn't have said it better. I don't understand the naysayers, Rick has now addressed all the negatives (S35VN on such an expensive knife, no lockbar insert for such an expensive knife, detent and flipping quality) while keeping the price the same. Don't like bearings? Then put the washers in the dang knife. The way it is now everyone can get what they want.

The only thing we didn't get that I would have liked to have seen is the stop pin (closed position) moved on the XM-24s like like it was on the -18s generations back. This is still just a minor thing IMO because you'd have to sharpen your knife many, many times before it is an issue.

 

[DRLyman]

I personally think this thread shows exactly what is wrong with so many of us knife nuts. There is no way to make everyone happy. All Hinderer heard for years was their knives did not flip well and who would pay that kind of money for a knife that is on teflon. Heck look through the countless threads on here to prove my point. He found a very simplistic way to make it to where knife nuts of all kinds were able to get the bearing/washer of their choice and some knife nuts still are not happy.

Personally I think Rick hit a freaking grand slam with the tri way pivot/Gen 6 (Gen 6/3/2 depending on the model). The added spacers do not make it more complicated, it is nothing more than one more piece of steel to take up the space of the bearings. That is not over complicating a damn thing. Now lets talk about the steel lock bar insert. The lock bar insert was a great way to make sure that if for some reason you beat the heck out of your knife and ruined the lock up, that your entire knife was no longer trash. It is a way that many knife makers before Rick found to make a simple fix so that you could keep your knife for the many generations it was designed to last and function in.

Now there are complaints of some lock stick. Well here is the 411 for you on that. Lock stick happened before the new steel insert. It was very rare back then and it is very rare now. Lock stick happens on all knives across all models. The difference is some threads get started about it and some don't. The lock stick on the Full Track has been reported at less than 10 incidents from the ranch. 10 out of more than 500 that have found happy homes with no problems.

The reality is that Hinderer knives is crushing it. They are on top of their game and making knives 100% worthy of the money a customer pays. Sure they have a few that have issues, but every company does. They fix it quick and take care of their customers. Despite some folks believing that Hinderer knives is a mega million dollar company with 100s of employees, they are not. They are less than 20 employees who are devoted to putting out a quality high end knife made in the USA. Rick wants to constantly be an innovator, and he wants his company to continue to put out the best knife to the market. He proved that by introducing the Tri Way Pivot system, the Steel Lock Insert and improving detent strength. While it may not make every knife collector/user happy, no knife ever will!

This should be a stickied post and required reading. It's always the same few people that go on about how the gen 6 Hinderers aren't like they used to be and should be thrown in the trash. They shouldn't have done this or added that. I've got a couple gen 4s and and 4 gen 6s. The gen 6s are much better to me in respect to detent, flipping and action. Both opening and closing the knife. None of mine have any lock stick or rock. I'm not getting rid of my gen 4s, but to say that the gen 6s are garbage and not worth getting always makes me laugh and shake my head. If you don't like the gen 6s, there are many other knives you can get. Get those and move on and be happy if you don't like them.

 

[Jesse Allen]

I’m excited to try a 3” XM-18 one day soon. When I was looking up the numerous models and configurations, I really wanted the sheepsfoot blade but I didn’t realise the 3.5” and 3.0” don’t share the same blade shapes.
So I’ve decided on the slicer grind, working finish blade with blue G10 and battle blue titanium finish.

 

[marrenmiller]

My XM-24 on bearings puts any ZT I've ever owned or touched to shame.

Someone please post a video of their Tri-way with a weak detent or poor action because I'm going to need to see it to believe it.

I just walked outside and made this real quick. I don't see how an action can get any better than this:

When I took it apart to put the brass parts in I simply put it back together. There isn't a super secret lube job here or anything. I have KPL light and heavy now I plan on applying the next time I get into the knife which will be when I can get my hands on a titanium scale. Not that the action can really be improved IMO.

I'll take a video if I can find out how to host it and post it here. None of mine have been good, and my current one will consistently flip out halfway unless I give it conscious effort and either pre-load the flipping tab a fair bit or give it wrist. I can also show you that the lockbar flexes visibly and audibly when tested for vertical play, as all of them have done, and there's a small amount of detent rock when closed.

Sure it'll lazily flip and drop shut on bearings, but literally anything will flip on bearings (and I don't understand why I'd buy a Hinderer just to put bearings in it, personally). On PB washers the Gen 6s appear to be as bad as the prior gen even when adjusted to allow for horizontal blade play, at least says the three I've had. No normal, non-enthusiast person who I hand these knives to can open them properly even after a few attempts. If I can get three in a row that are that bad, including one from DLT Trading and one from BladeHQ where they were checked before they left the door as per the notes in the invoice, then that at least indicates that Hinderer Knives isn't nearly as consistent as people are making them out to be.

This wouldn't even be a huge issue if not for the fact that Hinderer doesn't treat improper detent as a defect and therefore refuses to do warranty work for that issue. You're basically stuck with what you get out of the box.

 

[halden.doerge]

I personally think this thread shows exactly what is wrong with so many of us knife nuts. There is no way to make everyone happy. All Hinderer heard for years was their knives did not flip well and who would pay that kind of money for a knife that is on teflon. Heck look through the countless threads on here to prove my point. He found a very simplistic way to make it to where knife nuts of all kinds were able to get the bearing/washer of their choice and some knife nuts still are not happy.

Personally I think Rick hit a freaking grand slam with the tri way pivot/Gen 6 (Gen 6/3/2 depending on the model). The added spacers do not make it more complicated, it is nothing more than one more piece of steel to take up the space of the bearings. That is not over complicating a damn thing. Now lets talk about the steel lock bar insert. The lock bar insert was a great way to make sure that if for some reason you beat the heck out of your knife and ruined the lock up, that your entire knife was no longer trash. It is a way that many knife makers before Rick found to make a simple fix so that you could keep your knife for the many generations it was designed to last and function in.

Now there are complaints of some lock stick. Well here is the 411 for you on that. Lock stick happened before the new steel insert. It was very rare back then and it is very rare now. Lock stick happens on all knives across all models. The difference is some threads get started about it and some don't. The lock stick on the Full Track has been reported at less than 10 incidents from the ranch. 10 out of more than 500 that have found happy homes with no problems.

The reality is that Hinderer knives is crushing it. They are on top of their game and making knives 100% worthy of the money a customer pays. Sure they have a few that have issues, but every company does. They fix it quick and take care of their customers. Despite some folks believing that Hinderer knives is a mega million dollar company with 100s of employees, they are not. They are less than 20 employees who are devoted to putting out a quality high end knife made in the USA. Rick wants to constantly be an innovator, and he wants his company to continue to put out the best knife to the market. He proved that by introducing the Tri Way Pivot system, the Steel Lock Insert and improving detent strength. While it may not make every knife collector/user happy, no knife ever will!

Yeah, this is very much correct.

 

[rexromic]

I always liked Hinderers and their inconsistent flipping and detent with earlier Generations made them do the changes with newest Gen.6.With triway and lockbar insert they achieved better action and detent for sure.But fit got worse.If they can make a knife with better tolerances and finish they would not need extra parts on the knife which allready has a lot.
Make a non flipper without lockbar insert,triway and achieve good detent,action and then you would say that is a great and consistent blade.
But like a life is you can never make all happy.Cheers.

 

[KVT]

Gen6s are the absolute shiznit.
Stellar fit/finish.

 

[Philip ketchum]

I’m looking to buy a Gen 6 XM-18 3.5” and the few reviews that I’ve seen on YouTube have nothing but good things to say regarding the flipping action (on bearings). But... I’ve heard mixed reviews here and someone recently mentioned that even when using the bearings it didn’t flip very well. My thought was that with the new Tri-Way Pivot System that would remedy the poor action? Will someone with personal experience please chime in. Thank you

I’ve bought 2 gen 6 xm 18 3.5’s from dlt trading. Both had bad issues . One of them had a lock bar issue where the lock bar would travel further when I held the knife with a firm grip and the other had an obvious bur in the detent seat on the blade . Dlt was great and I’ll be sending them both back. Huge disappointment

 

[sharp_edge]

I’ve bought 2 gen 6 xm 18 3.5’s from dlt trading. Both had bad issues . One of them had a lock bar issue where the lock bar would travel further when I held the knife with a firm grip and the other had an obvious bur in the detent seat on the blade . Dlt was great and I’ll be sending them both back. Huge disappointment

What exact models? Mind sharing some pictures showing the issues?

 

[Feca10ne]

I've had my fair share of Hinderer's throughout the years, seams like there is always a pile of Xm-parts on my bench.

Im going to vote FLOP on the G6.
Worst thing Rick ever did to his knives. If he wanted to make a light weight office knife and put bearings in it fine! But why he decided to put bearings in his legendary hard use folders is beyond me!
No, no,..I take that back. Rick knew exactly what he was doing. He was appeasing the "bearing hype" crowd that wanted "drop shutty" action and glassy smooth opening In other words, he knew that if the knife world wanted pumpkin spice scented handle scales, by golly he was going to deliver! and make bank doing it.

At least put hardened stainless races for the bearings to ride on?...NOPE. Rick is going to let his bearings ride directly on his butter soft titanium How do I know its soft? Because I've sanded, drilled and grinded on it. Its the softest titanium I've ever encountered working on knives. I swear I think his 6AL-4V is left in Annealed condition and never hardened..
If you want the smoothest xm-18 the Ranch has to offer, get a G4/G5 and put the "correct" PB washers on it. Getting a G6 to operate perfectly on washers can be done but it will more than likely require advanced tuning A G6 on bearings is nothing but problems waiting to happen, but thats just the opinion of a sh*t cupcake on a knife forum.

Picking the correct PB washers...

1.Measure spacing at/above last stand-off............... (in this case .1900)

2.Measure blade thickness Yes, they DO very!. (in this case .1660)

3. Subtract difference...................................(in this case .024)
4. Divide by two, ........................................(in this case .012) *this is your needed washer thickness

5. Break out "Box o trix"... find corresponding washer *thickness needed.

General thickness for the Hinderer's PB washers are about .015-.016

The stainless spacers provided with a G6 are never a consistent thickness either. You can lap them, or just add the measurement to the equation.
The spacers on the G6 add another potential problem to achieving "Zen" smoothness. They will turn in the pockets instead of staying put where they belong. If you are using the G6 stainless spacers, a tiny bit of silicone sealant applied to the rear of them will keep them from turning. Clamp them in with a binder clip and let them cure.

Dont lube between the washer and scale, liner or spacer(G6)! Only apply lube between blade and washer. The washers should remain stationary on the titanium liner and scale. You can roughen up the scale side of the washer with sand paper to achieve this. Sometimes Ill even take a micro screwdriver and bend the washer up after assembly to keep it from rotating. Washers should NEVER rotate!

 

[BellaBlades]

I've had my fair share of Hinderer's throughout the years, seams like there is always a pile of Xm-parts on my bench.

Im going to vote FLOP on the G6.
Worst thing Rick ever did to his knives. If he wanted to make a light weight office knife and put bearings in it fine! But why he decided to put bearings in his legendary hard use folders is beyond me!
No, no,..I take that back. Rick knew exactly what he was doing. He was appeasing the "bearing hype" crowd that wanted "drop shutty" action and glassy smooth opening In other words, he knew that if the knife world wanted pumpkin spice scented handle scales, by golly he was going to deliver! and make bank doing it.

At least put hardened stainless races for the bearings to ride on?...NOPE. Rick is going to let his bearings ride directly on his butter soft titanium How do I know its soft? Because I've sanded, drilled and grinded on it. Its the softest titanium I've ever encountered working on knives. I swear I think his 6AL-4V is left in Annealed condition and never hardened..
If you want the smoothest xm-18 the Ranch has to offer, get a G4/G5 and put the "correct" PB washers on it. Getting a G6 to operate perfectly on washers can be done but it will more than likely require advanced tuning A G6 on bearings is nothing but problems waiting to happen, but thats just the opinion of a sh*t cupcake on a knife forum.

Picking the correct PB washers...

1.Measure spacing at/above last stand-off............... (in this case .1900)

2.Measure blade thickness Yes, they DO very!. (in this case .1660)

3. Subtract difference...................................(in this case .024)
4. Divide by two, ........................................(in this case .012) *this is your needed washer thickness

5. Break out "Box o trix"... find corresponding washer *thickness needed.

General thickness for the Hinderer's PB washers are about .015-.016

The stainless spacers provided with a G6 are never a consistent thickness either. You can lap them, or just add the measurement to the equation.
The spacers on the G6 add another potential problem to achieving "Zen" smoothness. They will turn in the pockets instead of staying put where they belong. If you are using the G6 stainless spacers, a tiny bit of silicone sealant applied to the rear of them will keep them from turning. Clamp them in with a binder clip and let them cure.

Dont lube between the washer and scale, liner or spacer(G6)! Only apply lube between blade and washer. The washers should remain stationary on the titanium liner and scale. You can roughen up the scale side of the washer with sand paper to achieve this. Sometimes Ill even take a micro screwdriver and bend the washer up after assembly to keep it from rotating. Washers should NEVER rotate!

I agree + great reaponse
Its everything I wanted to say and more. What a shame. He used to contend with CRK for me. Sadly I don't even look at RHK anymore and it hurts!

 

[Feca10ne]

I agree + great reaponse
Its everything I wanted to say and more. What a shame. He used to contend with CRK for me. Sadly I don't even look at RHK anymore and it hurts!

Yeah, CRK for me from now on too. I love my G6xm18 now that I got her all dialed in and customized but I recently sent a Gen3 to the Ranch for a warranty issue and had nothing but a bad experience, Didn't even fix what was wrong with it and charged me extra for what they did do. Then they sent it to wrong address.

 

[rxavage]

Feca10ne Why shouldn’t washers rotate? Have I made a grave mistake lubing both sides of the washers?