General Anvil Related Questions

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4140 can be hardened to around RC40 I believe (Nimba advertises their anvil faces at RC50-52). If you want to go to heaven, and only strike hot metal, I would think the 4140 would work. It might pick up stray hammer blows easier than a hardened cast steel anvil, but so what.
 
Not sure what you mean by it being "controversial". Could you explain?

I use 4140 for axes, hammer heads, and dies on my power hammer. Very tough stuff, simple to heat treat. It's given me no trouble at all. I'd say it's ideal for an anvil. You thinking of making a post anvil for yourself?
 
Was just noting some different opinions on a post fro the past I found using the search tool.
I was recently told by a old time blacksmith, that 4140 was not appropriate for a post anvil. He preferred D2 and S7 out of few steel types to choose.
I set a 12" RR rail on end and it is very solid. would like to set another post anvil out of something atleast as tough as this class A steel 100 + RR rail.
any advice is welcome, I am very new to bladesmithing or blacksmithing, but am drawn to it like a moth is to light.

Thanks, and that is some beautiful workmanship!
jon
 
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I would get a 3X7X4"block of 4140 and harden it. Set a 20-30" ( depends on the final height desired) piece of RR rail on end in some sort of base. Weld the block of 4140 on the rail end with the 3X7 as the face. You will have a very good anvil.
 
Thanks Stacy,
Great idea, once I learn to weld , or bring to a welder.
Old world anvils only has 4140 and will harden and ship a 4 by 4 by 4 for 85.00.
Other sizes , but price goes up to almost $280.00 for a 6 by 6 by 5.
They are all squares.
If I send it to get professionally hardened,
Would I be better with S7, D2, or H13?
Do you know which steel from this list is hardest with out being hardened.
Maybe just work hardened from use,:
RR rail (100 year old or new)
D2
S7(i have only seen in round stock)
H13
Thanks,
Jon
 
You don't need tool steels !! If 4140 is not enough then get 4340 . Those two steels are used for hammers and hatchets often , they work. Do harden them to 40-45 HRc.
 
If you are planning on welding the 4140, do a pre-heat for an hour at 400 degrees, weld, then post-heat for an hour at 400 degrees. Otherwise you run a chance of having it crack in the heat-affected zone.

I really don't think you're going to be dissatisfied with a 4140 anvil unless the heat treatment is bad, and the heat treatment is pretty darn simple on it. It's good steel.
 
Pre heat , post heat - you're giving away our secrets !!
4140 is the aircraft steel. gun steel, high strength bolt steel etc. Great combo of properties , cost ,weldability . etc.
I wonder if anyone takes a 4"x4"x24" and quenches the end like a Jominy End Quench sample ??
 
mete said:
Pre heat , post heat - you're giving away our secrets !!
4140 is the aircraft steel. gun steel, high strength bolt steel etc. Great combo of properties , cost ,weldability . etc.
I wonder if anyone takes a 4"x4"x24" and quenches the end like a Jominy End Quench sample ??
Click to expand...

I've pondered this quite a bit, because I could use a nice post anvil.

Due to it having such a large cross section, wouldn't quenching it in water be ideal? I know it's an oil cooled steel, but that much oil would be beyond my capabilities. The neighbor has a 14' deep spring-fed pond with a decent dock. If I heated 4"-6" of the end of a 4140 bar that size to critical and dead dropped it off the dock with an engine hoist...

Would the velocity of the drop and the depth of the lake be enough to get past the steam jacket and successfully quench the anvil?
 
Do not water quench 4140; you'll crack it.

I had a power hammer die that I quenched in oil, let sit for at least five minutes, then cooled it the rest of the way in water. It cracked badly, inches deep.

I use a 20 second quench oil from McMaster Carr. So, a slow quench even for oil.
 
Sorry I should have explained better. NO WATER for 4140 ! I ment to put one end into the OIL .Wait a bit , then remove for a bit for heat to temper the quenched end , then dunk whole piece into oil to cool completely.
 
Storm Crow said:
Do not water quench 4140; you'll crack it.

I had a power hammer die that I quenched in oil, let sit for at least five minutes, then cooled it the rest of the way in water. It cracked badly, inches deep.

I use a 20 second quench oil from McMaster Carr. So, a slow quench even for oil.
Click to expand...

mete said:
Sorry I should have explained better. NO WATER for 4140 ! I ment to put one end into the OIL .Wait a bit , then remove for a bit for heat to temper the quenched end , then dunk whole piece into oil to cool completely.
Click to expand...

Under normal circumstances I would never water quench 4140, but I would venture to say that a 4" cross section would have enough mass to survive an aggressive quenching medium...

I wouldn't quench 4140 hammer dies in water either, but those dies don't have anywhere near the mass of a 4x4x24" 4140 drop...

What amount of oil would be necessary to quench such a large billet of 4140? Would I be off the mark if I said you'd need 2 gallons of preheated/agitated oil for every pound of steel to be quenched? even heating a 4x4x6" end of a 4140 drop would call for a sizable tank of oil...

... note that this is all for the fun of conversation... There are more intelligent ways of acquiring a hardened post anvil than suggesting the scenario of dunking a drop of red hot steel off a dock like an anchor... I was just under the impression that sheer mass of the 4140 alone would hold up like a champ to the water quench...

Now I'm just trying to imagine the quenching forces and residual heat battling it out... If anything, in the scenario where the quenching force wins; you can't deny that the particular "tink" that followed would sound anything like a fragile mistake...
 
You know you don't have to start a new thread every time a question pops into your head... Why could this not have been a trailing question to your last thread, or the one before that???

It's not like we aren't giving you ample attention, contributing answers, or extending a nice spectrum of on-topic dialog in the previous thread you started.... If it's a completely different topic, than by all means... You've started three threads now that could have all been follow up questions to your initial three threads...

I'm the last to police someone else's posting habits, but this is getting ridiculous.
 
I am sorry, I thought the separate questions would be more organised and easier for someone new , so they would not have to follow the entire thread for perhaps just one point they were looking for.
I am very honored that you have been so helpful at all the questions I have, and in no way want you to think I feel ignored.
I have an overactive mind, and could never come anywhere near posting every time I have a question pop up.
I will keep my questions that are of the same topic in the one thread, and not start new posts for each question.
Again, I am very sorry to have prompted you to write this reply, but I do appreciate your comments.
Sincerely,
Jon
 
And to answer your question;


It would cost you out the wazzo to have a large piece of steel professionally "hardened", and that is if you find someone local to you willing to even take on the task. A little internet researching and you might be able to find steel in a pre-hardened state, which would cost far le$$ than the former. There's also this stuff called air-hardening steel which might be worth a look too.
 
No need for all that apology. I can get the gist of why you might have thought that to be good practice, but for the sake of content, if you have a question, follow that question to the ends of your curiosity engaging the people participating in that thread.

I'm a little fish in a big pond too, and there's nothing better than getting someone knowledgable to answer your question... The strategy that plays out from then on out is air-tight! You ask that person follow-up questions, and they might feel inclined to answer, or someone else just as knowledgable chimes in... Or for that matter, something that plays out more often than not... You get someone like me that spouts off something completely stupid-wrong because I read it somewhere else on the internet, and then someone steps in to prevent the spread of bad information, affording you good information instead...

as the world turns... :D
 
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