General consensus 9Cr18MoV

B

BeyondTheBox

Joined
Apr 13, 2016
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I recently downloaded an app that has almost every blade steel known to man, listed with properties and a brief description and/or comparison to other, typically American, steels.

Anyway, I point this out because I've come across what I would consider something that makes no sense to me when trying to study 9Cr18MoV. I had thought it was reasonably similar to 440C, in use and application. But this application I've been using says the following about the 9Cr18 line...

9Cr18: Chinese stainless alloy, similar to AISI 440C stainless steel. Most notable difference being the absence of Molybdenum from it's composition. Obviously that is detrimental to it's performance as a knife steel, Mo is a strong carbide former, not the best, but still better than nothing.

From this I take that 9Cr18 alone, before any MoV, is closest matched to 440C. It says that the lack of Mo alone is a negative thing, determent as they claim. So I assume that the addition of the Mo should then take it a grade above standard 9Cr18. Right?

9Cr18Mo: Chinese equivalent of 440C stainless steel.

Okay, I'm a little confused, but maybe I read wrong. I thought the addition of Mo was not just a positive thing, but a very positive thing, given the lack thereof was considered detrimental. But maybe they embellished just how negative a lack of Mo really is. Okay I'll let it slide, however...

9Cr18MoV: Chinese equivalent of 440B steel. Slightly better performer due to increased amounts of Molybdenum in it's composition, and addition very small amounts of Vanadium. ~0.10% of Vanadium will not affect steel wear resistance in any meaningful way, however it does have positive affect on grain refinement, which is always desirable.

Okay, so now I'm thoroughly confused. They very clearly state that both Molybdenum and Vanadium are positive additions to a steels composition, yet when they're added to the standard 9Cr18, which is apparently most comparable to 440C, they suddenly make 9Cr18MoV more comparable to the lower grade 440B???

Any help here? Am I wrong in my thinking that 440B is lower grade than 440C? If not, then why is it that the addition of better, more strengthening materials to 9Cr18, renders it a weaker, lesser version?
 
BeyondTheBox said:
I recently downloaded an app that has almost every blade steel known to man, listed with properties and a brief description and/or comparison to other, typically American, steels.

Anyway, I point this out because I've come across what I would consider something that makes no sense to me when trying to study 9Cr18MoV. I had thought it was reasonably similar to 440C, in use and application. But this application I've been using says the following about the 9Cr18 line...

9Cr18: Chinese stainless alloy, similar to AISI 440C stainless steel. Most notable difference being the absence of Molybdenum from it's composition. Obviously that is detrimental to it's performance as a knife steel, Mo is a strong carbide former, not the best, but still better than nothing.

From this I take that 9Cr18 alone, before any MoV, is closest matched to 440C. It says that the lack of Mo alone is a negative thing, determent as they claim. So I assume that the addition of the Mo should then take it a grade above standard 9Cr18. Right?

9Cr18Mo: Chinese equivalent of 440C stainless steel.

Okay, I'm a little confused, but maybe I read wrong. I thought the addition of Mo was not just a positive thing, but a very positive thing, given the lack thereof was considered detrimental. But maybe they embellished just how negative a lack of Mo really is. Okay I'll let it slide, however...

9Cr18MoV: Chinese equivalent of 440B steel. Slightly better performer due to increased amounts of Molybdenum in it's composition, and addition very small amounts of Vanadium. ~0.10% of Vanadium will not affect steel wear resistance in any meaningful way, however it does have positive affect on grain refinement, which is always desirable.

Okay, so now I'm thoroughly confused. They very clearly state that both Molybdenum and Vanadium are positive additions to a steels composition, yet when they're added to the standard 9Cr18, which is apparently most comparable to 440C, they suddenly make 9Cr18MoV more comparable to the lower grade 440B???

Any help here? Am I wrong in my thinking that 440B is lower grade than 440C? If not, then why is it that the addition of better, more strengthening materials to 9Cr18, renders it a weaker, lesser version?
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The most "detrimental" thing about it is the poor heat treatment that was typical in blades made from this steel in China.
The bad reputation it got was from HC steel outperforming the Chinese stainless steel. Sure HC is not stainless, but at least it could take a keen edge and hold it just as long. Things have changed now, but in the way that 9Cr18 is really only used now in budget blades, but with a decent HT.
 
The new WE Civivi budget knives use it, I wonder how would they perform, given WE's performance.
 
Hackenslash is wrong with his list (no offence) - none of the 440 types have Vanadium, and the A/B/C endings refer to ONLY changing amounts of Carbon:

440A is about 0.7% Carbon
440B is about 0.85% (upto 0.95%)
440C is about 0.95% (upto 1.2% http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=440c but not usually so high)

9Cr18xxx steels ALL have about 0.9% Carbon, and 18% Chrome... (thus, they could be ranked between 440B & C) and yes, the MoV variant is usually better for the small amount of Vanadium, which the 440x class does not have. 440x class steels also lack Nickel, which the 9Cr18xxx usually have.

The lesson is this: apps that purport to compare steel types are usually off, don't trust them. Look to the actual details and composition percentages etc
 
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In my experience, I've found 9Cr to be slightly below 440C in performance. Higher than AUS-8, but lower than 440C. It's a pretty good steel overall, it just doesn't get my juices flowing. The difference between it and 440C is kinda like the difference between 440C and Acuto 440, it's a little lower but for most people not very noticeable.
 
BeyondTheBox said:
They very clearly state that both Molybdenum and Vanadium are positive additions to a steels composition, yet when they're added to the standard 9Cr18, which is apparently most comparable to 440C, they suddenly make 9Cr18MoV more comparable to the lower grade 440B???
Click to expand...

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=440B,440C,9Cr18MoV,9Cr18&ni=488,420,860,,,697&hrn=1&gm=0

The reason he equates 9Cr18 to 440C and 9Cr18MoV to 440B is that 9Cr18 has a higher carbon content than 9Cr18MoV. The only difference between 440B and 440C is carbon. They are not identical steels (440C and 9Cr18), just close in composition. The very tiny amount of Vanadium in the steel adds somewhat to grain refinement. If you want to get a Chinese steel that is very, very close to 440C, then add a 9 to the front of it and get the 99Cr18MoV from Ahonest Changjiang Stainless Steel Co. Ltd.
 
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From real-world use on my cheap-as-heck Schrade SCH304M: I like the steel. It takes a very shaving sharp edge very easily, and seems to hold it through quite a bit of usage. Seems rather tough as well. In terms of edge retention, I'd say it's a step up over AUS-8, 8Cr13MoV, 8Cr14MoV, etc; not quite on the same level as VG-10 with a polished edge but not a bad steel at all. I'd definitely buy another knife in this steel if it's well-made, well-designed and well-priced considering it's still somewhat a budget steel. Of course, steel comparisons are difficult as composition only goes part of the way. Heat treatment of individual blades also makes a difference and with my tendency to not buy another knife of the same steel, I don't exactly have a large sample size or even many duplicates of anything in my (small) collection, so of course, your mileage may vary and perhaps if I did buy another knife in 9Cr18MoV, I might have a different experience.
 
I'll take 9CR**MOclass of knife steels, like my BM pika in 9CR13 anyday over Kershaw's 8CR14MoV.As I know that they take an incredibly sharp edge,represent value,and are easy to sharpening.In my experience the 9CRXX class performs a step above 440C but underneath VG-10.YMMV
 
If it really is 9cr18mov then there's nothing not to like,probably a decent user...I have a coast knife that uses it seems okay ,the knife is clunky though so I don't carry very often
 
IMO, if it's a knife you like from a company with a decent rep for good HT and you know how to sharpen, get the sucker and try it out. I don't think knives with that steel will break the budget, should be pretty easy and quick to sharpen when dulled, and often meet the requirements if the average individual.

For daily tasks, I often prefer a 10-30 second touch up after a day or three's use to a 10-30 minute sharpening touch up for my more expensive steeled knives after a week or three. Full disclosure, I do most of my sharpening on a SharpMaker although I have a few diamond rods, and am a novice at sharpening - just want to be able to push cut Sticky Notes paper when I'm done sharpening.
 
115Italian said:
Delete the app and find some solid research refernces.
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I am reminded of Homer Simpson whining to Marge when he continually quotes the internet.... "but Marge, it HAS to be true; I read it on the Internet".

Too much ambiguity in the information. It it were me I would look for a better source material.

Robert
 
Necro thread but it came up in a web search and needs an update.

9Cr18Mov is a decent budget steel. It's generally a significant step up from 8Cr13Mov in terms of both edge retention and corrosion resistance. Anecdotally, edge performance for this steel is somewhere around or just past the midpoint between 8Cr13Mov and VG10. (Of course, remember that factory edges are a poor indicator of performance.)

The big difference for this steel is when it comes from WE, whether in the Civivi, Sencut, or Ferrum Forge knives. They seem to have perfected their mass-production heat treatment for it. The edge retention is noticeably better than average for 9Cr18Mov and can exceed what you'll get from Spyderco's VG-10. In fact, it's good enough to start overlapping the lower end of performance for Chinese knives in S35VN and M390 or 20CV with less than stellar heat treatments. Of course, there is always a range but I had one of my Civivi knives in 9Cr18Mov tested for hardness and it came back 60HRC on the dot.
 
I'll say this much:

Civivi 9Cr18Mov based damascus has been very surprising in the edge retention department. An example of how a mediocre steel with an excellent heat treatment can perform on par with better steels with a mediocre heat treat.
 
K.O.D. said:
I'll say this much:

Civivi 9Cr18Mov based damascus has been very surprising in the edge retention department. An example of how a mediocre steel with an excellent heat treatment can perform on par with better steels with a mediocre heat treat.
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According to their representative, the Civivi Damascus is a mixture of 9Cr18Mov and 10Cr15CoMov. That was interesting to me. At least one person here challenged that due to 440C and VG-10 having similar corrosion resistance. While 10Cr15CoMov is a close analog of VG-10, 9Cr18Mov is definitely more stainless than 440C.
 
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I just saw that someone was reading this old thread. My last answer needed an update. While 10Cr15CoMov is effectively the Chinese version of VG-10, 9Cr18Mov and 440C are not analogs. It instead seems to be based on another Japanese steel, Acuto 440, which itself seems to be an improved version of 440B.

I've ended up with more knives in 9Cr18Mov over the last year and I've spent more time with them in my pocket. Nick Shabazz used to say that 8Cr13Mov is either "barely adequate or barely inadequate" and that steel has felt underwhelming for years now. Meanwhile, 9Cr18Mov seems totally adequate for most casual EDC needs. The excellent heat treatment it gets in the Civivi, Sencut, and Ferrum Forge knives made by WE take it to the next level.

Kizer launched a budget line in 9Cr18Mov earlier this year. While I don't have enough use on them to talk about their heat treatment, they are well-made knives for the money.
 
I don't have much experience with 9cr specifically, but I do have a handful of knives that use a 9cr/10cr Damascus. It's a perfectly acceptable budget steel in my opinion. Nothing really stands out about it, but the edge holds reasonably well, and it sharpens up without much hassle. I'd take it over D2.
 
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