General question: What makes a $900 knife so much better than a $40 knife?

crimsonfalcon07 said:
Hmm, lets see. I think maybe it's because instead of researching, as was suggested,
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It's amazing when people have been on the forum for a while and they are "experienced" that they have the right to just tell everyone, "do a search", we've talked about this too many times. Or, "if you don't do a search and follow my advise, you must be a troll." People need to get off their high horses. If someone wants to ask a question they are free to do so. Just about every question asked on this forum has been asked before. But I don't see some forum policy that dictates that someone must search out previous answers first. Maybe if I ask a question I want to know what people think about this topic TODAY, and not what they thought about it some other time. Maybe there are things to learn by actually being IN a dialogue instead of just reading a past one.

I didn't start knowing everything about knives, and I still don't. But you also don't see any threads like this from me. Virtually everything I know, I learned from reading threads on the forums. There's a TON of great information out there if you just look for it.
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So in other words, if you're not like me, then you're a troll. Nice.
 
Saw this on another post and thought it'd be good here;

FortyTwoBlades said:
Whenever people ask questions with obvious answers I always just give them the straight-faced obvious response.

Them: "Why do you carry a knife?"
Me: "To cut things."

Them: "Why is it so sharp?"
Me: "Because it works better."

Them: "Is that legal?"
me: "Yes."

Them: "Why did that knife cost so much?"
Me: "Because it's a very nice one."

Them: "Why did you spend so much on a knife?"
Me: "Because I like nice things."

The "DUHHHHH" lightbulb usually goes off over their head and they sometimes ask more interesting questions after that. If so, I'll go into greater explanatory detail, but I find keeping it simple makes the most concise and intelligible argument for folks who find knife carry an alien concept. Most folks around here really don't mind seeing a knife though--Maine is pretty good like that.
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It's hard to say what the difference is when some one says "well this $40 knife I got from Walmart cuts just as good as this $900 dollar high end gents folder" if thats the logic then a $40 knife is good enough. Although I bet you keep looking and wanting that $900 gents folder with feather pattern Damascus primo mammoth an some wild mosaic bolsters not to mention the heat colored o1 file worked back strap and liners. If a $40 knife will do the job you need it to, then by all means get one.
 
newknife said:
How much more labor and cost is involved in making a ZT0550 compared to a knife directly from Hinder that cost $1000? What are the special process and procedures and labor that are involved in the Hinder xm-18 that are not involved in the ZT0550 that make the knife that much more expensive? Is there anything "custom" about the Hinder?
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Because ZT is part of KAI and can make bulk purchases of said metals/scale material/hardware for a better price and can put out a higher number of knives=better profit margin and Hinderer is a smaller operation that times time to make these almost OCD like perfection knives and probably makes only a couple hundred knives a year.
 
chester22 said:
Because ZT is part of KAI and can make bulk purchases of said metals/scale material/hardware for a better price and can put out a higher number of knives=better profit margin and Hinderer is a smaller operation that times time to make these almost OCD like perfection knives and probably makes only a couple hundred knives a year.
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Sure, but that doesn't make it custom, or special, or more functional...it just makes it more expensive. And even then, I'm not sure the cost is that much different. You can find small independent knife makers, some that even post on these forums, that make fixed blades that are very reasonable. They turn them out fairly quickly too.
 
newknife said:
Sure, but that doesn't make it custom, or special, or more functional...it just makes it more expensive. And even then, I'm not sure the cost is that much different. You can find small independent knife makers, some that even post on these forums, that make fixed blades that are very reasonable. They turn them out fairly quickly too.
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Yup. When I see these Striders, Hinderers, CRKs etc, I think "I can get something very nearly identical to that for a fraction of the price. However, when I see some of the beautiful knives in the customs area of this forum, by people who haven't yet made deals with large companies, I do feel that urge to buy sometimes. Backwoods customs in particular are gorgeous to me, with their burl wood that looks like galaxies exploding in the handle. The thing is, those knives are actually unique, whether they are based on a familiar pattern or not. When a guy like Chris Reeve is tossing out set lines of knives at high prices, what's the motivation for buying it if everyone has one like it? It ceases to be a real custom, beyond some option-switching here and there, but retains the price of a custom. Just my opinion, but when you get to the point where you can standardize your product line, drop your prices or make a deal with a larger company to produce those products at a faster rate than you can with your own equipment. Which is where things like the ZT 0500 series rolls in. Looks like a Hinderer, right? So if he made a deal with ZT to produce his design, why is he skirting the fringe and still charging ridiculous amounts?

Don't get me wrong. I love customs. Real customs, anyway.
 
newknife said:
How much more labor and cost is involved in making a ZT0550 compared to a knife directly from Hinder that cost $1000? What are the special process and procedures and labor that are involved in the Hinder xm-18 that are not involved in the ZT0550 that make the knife that much more expensive? Is there anything "custom" about the Hinder?
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Since when did a xm-18 cost 1000$ direct from the manufacture? Thats is a whole different thread that has been covered thousands of times. A xm 18 costs ~400$ from directly from Hinderer. So maybe someone should do a search and get there facts straight.
 
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i dont want to give a short answer but i am very tired. but here is the short version. literally every single freaking thing. materials, screws, handle materials, fit, finnish, builders, manufacturing process, place of construction and the builders themselves .

i compair them to cars. a lamborghini might be beautiful and they might be special and rare but in general they are high Maintenance and some times finicky. while that $20,000 chevy impala will run forever and just need a oil change and a tune up every so often. it truly is a pride of ownership thing. i will say though that i do enjoy my expensive knives far more than my $50 knives and they are well worth the steep price tag.
 
There's a lot of emotion and illogic in any passionate hobby. Human nature is a funny thing. One of my neighbors was such a ham radio fanatic that he had multiple alternators bolted onto his truck engine just to power the huge collection of radio equipment he had onboard. Would I do that? No way. But I'll bet he also didn't own any >$100 knives. We understand the things we love and are baffled by the things we don't.

I own a $400 custom and I dont regret spending that much because it is a true custom: I corresponded with the make and the finished product is a blend of my specifications and his skill and aesthetic. It is clearly recognizable as being his work but it also is tailored to my specific wants.

A Chris Reeve Sebenza costs about the same. I have never owned one and I doubt I ever will. The Sebenza is a mass-produced "mid-tech" knife. Granted, it's fitted and finished to a degree that is said to be truly fantastic, but it's still not a custom knife by my definition. Why is my knife worth it to me but the well-regarded CRK is not? Because it is adapted to me, whereas I would have to adapt myself to the CRK. I paid a skilled craftsman to craft a tool that is uniquely mine.....it's a visceral thing that will invariably fail the test of pure economics.
 
zImsKee said:
Since when did a xm-18 cost 1000$ direct from the manufacture? Thats is a whole different thread that has been covered thousands of times. A xm 18 costs ~400$ from directly from Hinderer. So maybe someone should do a search and get there facts straight.
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Wrong. You can't buy direct from the unless you're in public service (check their site)$400 is for people in some sort of public service, as far as I can tell. Pretty much all the dealers have them listed from like $800-$1000. Can you show me an online source where the knife goes for $400 to the public? (that's all really beside the point, but I'm just curious)
 
I paid a skilled craftsman to craft a tool that is uniquely mine.....it's a visceral thing that will invariably fail the test of pure economics.
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Right, but it sounds like your knife actually meets the definition of a "custom" knife.
 
newknife said:
Wrong. You can't buy direct from the unless you're in public service (check their site)$400 is for people in some sort of public service, as far as I can tell. Pretty much all the dealers have them listed from like $800-$1000. Can you show me an online source where the knife goes for $400 to the public? (that's all really beside the point, but I'm just curious)
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Weird, I believe your quote said direct from hinderer. Not dealers/secondary market. And yes, you may only buy direct from hinderer if you public service(military, emt, etc.) So I'm not sure if your original quote was to mislead people or to make a invalid point. If you like to talk further you can gladly email me. Im not going to respond to anymore responses and take this thread more off topic.
 
I have had knives made for me from guys on this site, (thanks,JBS Toolmaker)that is my own design,from my own drawing the type of pins,handle material,steel choice & thickness,color of liners,etc..all designed to fit the size of my hand,to me I feel that this is about as custom as your going to get and all this for~$200 I think that's damn reasonable-I have put together a few knives for myself and when you factor in materials,time,shipping,heat treating cost-you definitely begin to understand the why's
 
zImsKee said:
Weird, I believe your quote said direct from hinderer. Not dealers/secondary market. And yes, you may only buy direct from hinderer if you public service(military, emt, etc.) So I'm not sure if your original quote was to mislead people or to make a invalid point. If you like to talk further you can gladly email me. Im not going to respond to anymore responses and take this thread more off topic.
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Sorry, you're right I misspoke. I should have a said "a knife manufactured by Hinderer as opposed to those made by ZT."
 
Sunfish forge custom tactical $2800...I'd pay it. Demko AD-10 $800-$1100 new or used...I'd pay it. Any Busse, swamprat or scrapyard and fherman...I'd pay what they ask. I have confidence in them. I love my $50 cold steel recon 1 and my $90 Sog Vulcan. I have confidence in them as well. The point is ONE has to decide for themselves. I can fault any of you for spending your own money the way you want. The only intrinsic value that can be applied is the cost of materials...and even that is subjective to market value. An independent knife maker should charge the max they can get so they can afford to keep making knives.IMEO;)
 
Knives are far more than just tools, to me. I won't buy a knife if I know the maker has done foul things. I won't buy a knife if I don't believe in the ethics of the company. I care about inconsequential things like blade centering, blade play, even grinds, etc. I will pay huge premiums for a company I believe in that pays attention to detail.
 
newknife said:
A whole lot of post and I didn't see anyone really address his issue with the word "custom". Seem's like a fair discussion.
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Because people have been arguing about it for decades?

The general consensus is that "custom" in relation to knife makers encompasses all handmade knives, not just one-offs or a customer specced variation of a standard model. Just go to any custom knife show and see what's on display.

Just because one doesn't agree with the generally accepted definition it doesn't make it any less so.


ETA: I will concede that we've seen some blurring of the lines in recent years regarding mid tech knives produced by custom makers but they are usually up front about the production aspects and are careful to differentiate these from their "custom" line (they will be priced accordingly as well).
 
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I seem to recall that as far as the general public goes, Mr. Hinderer's website says that his knives are only available through authorized dealers. I may be wrong.
newknife said:
Wrong. You can't buy direct from the unless you're in public service (check their site)$400 is for people in some sort of public service, as far as I can tell. Pretty much all the dealers have them listed from like $800-$1000. Can you show me an online source where the knife goes for $400 to the public? (that's all really beside the point, but I'm just curious)
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