Getting back in after 15 years... what should I get??

[BJ987]

No need to apologize. You are all good. I don't think anyone who has posted on this thread is even remotely annoyed at you.
We live for this stuff!
If anything, we are a bit concerned you might be going a bit hog wild with the spending.
For what you've spent after saying your max was around $50 I would've definitely recommended something like a Cold Steel AD-10 or AD-15. Or even some ZT's like the 0562, or 0393 instead of what was initially suggested.
But hey, If you're having fun, that's what it's all about.

And to answer your question. Absolutely yes. Get a strop. A couple of swipes at the end of the day and my knives are usually just as good as when I started.
No need for anything expensive. If it's over $20 it's too much.

Thanks, though I'm prepared to annoy further . So yeah, I told myself $50 was the limit. After talking with you guys here on the forum and really seeing what's out there, things escalated quickly... SOOOO, I ordered an AD-10 and an AD-15 last night... Not entirely because I felt like I needed/wanted one. But more because I think I found a deal/steal? The AD-10 seems to be around $191, AD-15 $215 everywhere. I got an AD-10 at $120 and an AD-15 at $152... Sound like the kind of deal that shouldn't be passed up?

Also got a strop w/paddle and compound for like $18, still gotta learn how and when to use it though.

 

[Dadpool]

I apologize for this thread taking the turns it did, but I also have to say that you guys helped me steer it to where I realized I can now start more specific threads in the more appropriate sub-forums. You guys really helped me realize what I'm really looking for and the right questions to ask. I will take the time. And I will be more respective to forum etiquette. I have to say though, I really don't want this thread to die just yet because I feel like those of you who have been particularly active (DadPool, Chronovore, DOCJD) share a lot of the same "tastes" as me and I think I would really continue to benefit from your seasoned advice.

This is a fun thread and you've got nothing to apologize for. Your enthusiasm is infectious.

Another one that just came to mind... I recently became interested in the CS Air Lite. I found it at around $65. For that price, I contemplate whether I should get one for the purpose of being my beater knife, while saving most of the others (Recon 1, American Lawman, CQC-4KXL) razor sharp and ready for SD carry. I figured with my current collection, the CIVIVI Baklash would naturally be my beater, but the Air Lite is calling to me... I can't justify the MSRP ($85?). But if I can get it at $65, is it really a steal? Depending on your comments, if I get one, I would have to return/sell something in my current collection for financial reasons.

I love the design of the Air Lite, but my jury of one is on the fence a bit about the initial production run. It's so slim that the tolerances are really tight, and there's a thread going in the Cold Steel subforum about some folks (myself included) having problems with theirs not staying closed properly.

Absent that issue -- and there are plenty of folks who've mentioned having zero issues with theirs -- it's a fantastic featherweight design backed up by the strength of the Tri-Ad Lock. Should be more than capable of any daily chores the average person's life dishes out.

I'm no expert, but I don't see the Lawman as a self defense-oriented knife. I'd use that one as your daily driver over an Air Lite, as that's where its design really shines.

P.S.--I can't find that PM2 Wave anywhere. Is it out of production?

No, it's a dealer exclusive for a retailer that isn't a paid BladeForums member. Other than the secondary market they should be the only place selling them, and I'd be willing to be that if they're out of stock they'll be ordering more. I don't think it was a limited run.

 

[Dadpool]

I got an AD-10 at $120

That's one of the best Cold Steel knives I've ever handled. Good choice! The AD-15 is a lot of fun, too.

It's possible to find an AD-10 at $120, but I know the place where I usually see them that low is the "big river" retailer. If you bought it there, I'd inspect it carefully and compare it to pics of the model (or ask for help in the CS subforum) to make sure it's authentic. If you found it at a dedicated knife retailer for $120, you should be solid on that front.

 

[BJ987]

This is a fun thread and you've got nothing to apologize for. Your enthusiasm is infectious.

I love the design of the Air Lite, but my jury of one is on the fence a bit about the initial production run. It's so slim that the tolerances are really tight, and there's a thread going in the Cold Steel subforum about some folks (myself included) having problems with theirs not staying closed properly.

Absent that issue -- and there are plenty of folks who've mentioned having zero issues with theirs -- it's a fantastic featherweight design backed up by the strength of the Tri-Ad Lock. Should be more than capable of any daily chores the average person's life dishes out.

I'm no expert, but I don't see the Lawman as a self defense-oriented knife. I'd use that one as your daily driver over an Air Lite, as that's where its design really shines.

No, it's a dealer exclusive for a retailer that isn't a paid BladeForums member. Other than the secondary market they should be the only place selling them, and I'd be willing to be that if they're out of stock they'll be ordering more. I don't think it was a limited run.

That's one of the best Cold Steel knives I've ever handled. Good choice! The AD-15 is a lot of fun, too.

It's possible to find an AD-10 at $120, but I know the place where I usually see them that low is the "big river" retailer. If you bought it there, I'd inspect it carefully and compare it to pics of the model (or ask for help in the CS subforum) to make sure it's authentic. If you found it at a dedicated knife retailer for $120, you should be solid on that front.

Thanks Dadpool. So, I was definitely looking into the pros/cons between the Air Lite and SR1 Lite, before my late-night venture took me to realize that the AD-10 was priced significantly lower on my favorite "river retailer". After some quick, hasty, irresponsible research, I convinced myself I had to get one... (no big surprise here to anyone who has been following this thread; hopefully my manic purchases have been amusing to you guys). BTW, I checked again today and the AD-10 is now $133 at the river retailer, so, assuming it's legit, I think taking advantages of the algorithm is good?

As far as the American Lawman--after actually having/using it for a few days, I realized (much to the contrary of its marketing) that it will probably find its place as my favorite EDC ATM, while still being confident that it can fill the role of a last resort SD weapon if necessary, much more than perhaps the CIVIVI Baklash or an EDC less built and tough.

Going back to the AD series (I know I'm skipping around), I actually just pulled the trigger on the AD-15 early this morning. Last night I didn't even really know what it was. When I checked this morning to assess the damage I had done late last night, the price of the AD-15 (from the same seller) seemed suspiciously low to me, so 10 min of more irresponsible research later, I pulled the trigger on that one too. On the first page of a google search it's over $200 at every retailer BUT my fave river retailer. If it's legit, I have to assume I'm getting a steal at 152 bucks. I actually really want this one, and may end up sending back the AD-10. The biggest thing I've been missing from my CS knives so far is the fidget factor. After seeing that scorpion lock, I hope the AD-15 fills that gap for me. EDC, tactical, fidget-friendly?

 

[Dadpool]

After seeing that scorpion lock, I hope the AD-15 fills that gap for me. EDC, tactical, fidget-friendly?

The Scorpion Lock is really fun to fidget with. I still can't close it the way Andrew Demko does in videos, but my open/close method using just the yoke works fine and puts the knife right up there with my favorites in that regard. When you originally mentioned being out of the knife world for 15 years, the Scorpion Lock was one of the first cool things I thought of that you'd missed.

Its blade is nearly identical to the AD-10's blade, so if you like the 10 you should like the 15. The 15 carries smaller because it's leaner, but the contoured G10 on the 10 makes it more comfortable in hand.

This thread needs more pictures.

 

[BJ987]

The Scorpion Lock is really fun to fidget with. I still can't close it the way Andrew Demko does in videos, but my open/close method using just the yoke works fine and puts the knife right up there with my favorites in that regard. When you originally mentioned being out of the knife world for 15 years, the Scorpion Lock was one of the first cool things I thought of that you'd missed.

Its blade is nearly identical to the AD-10's blade, so if you like the 10 you should like the 15. The 15 carries smaller because it's leaner, but the contoured G10 on the 10 makes it more comfortable in hand.

This thread needs more pictures.

Noted. I will def post more pics as my "knife high" continues. When I first saw the Scorpion Lock, I thought it might have some of the same qualities as the AXIS-lock variety in that you can one-handedly swing the blade open and closed. I haven't seen anyone in videos do that yet... Either way I'm excited to get them both in. Even if the AD-10 proves the better overall user/bruiser, I think I will keep the AD-15 just for the unique features that none of the knives in my current collection have (the cool factor). Who knows, I may continue to be crazy and keep both . Anyway, can someone tell me that I got a good deal on these so I don't feel so guilty??

 

[Dadpool]

When I first saw the Scorpion Lock, I thought it might have some of the same qualities as the AXIS-lock variety in that you can one-handedly swing the blade open and closed.

Oh for sure, 100%. This is half the fun of the lock. The tolerances are great and it's a genuinely innovative bit of engineering.

To open/close mine, I pinch the G10 portion of the handle between my thumb and three fingers, leaving my index finger free to "snap" the lock up long enough to swing the blade in/out. In videos I've seen Demko do it by sort of pinching it between his thumb and index finger, with no fingers off the handle; that's the bit of the code that I haven't cracked yet.

You got a killer deal on both of them if they're authentic. If they were sold by and shipped by the "big river" (rather than sold by a third party) you can probably rest easy. Although I have heard of folks getting fakes/etc. even in that scenario, it's never happened to me.

 

[kylemiller]

Love to see it man. You've got some winners on the way. Be sure to put some pictures up.

 

[BJ987]

Oh for sure, 100%. This is half the fun of the lock. The tolerances are great and it's a genuinely innovative bit of engineering.

To open/close mine, I pinch the G10 portion of the handle between my thumb and three fingers, leaving my index finger free to "snap" the lock up long enough to swing the blade in/out. In videos I've seen Demko do it by sort of pinching it between his thumb and index finger, with no fingers off the handle; that's the bit of the code that I haven't cracked yet.

You got a killer deal on both of them if they're authentic. If they were sold by and shipped by the "big river" (rather than sold by a third party) you can probably rest easy. Although I have heard of folks getting fakes/etc. even in that scenario, it's never happened to me.

Good to hear. They are sold and shipped by the big river , and the black AD-15 in the same listing (mannnn, now I want the black one!!) is currently listed at $219, which is only 10 bucks less than what it's at at BladeHQ, so I think I'm good. I'm really curious about the lock strength of the Scorpion. Just looking at the design, it appears like it wouldn't take too much negative force on the blade to get that bar to pop up just enough for the pin to slip out and the lock to fail (even if it is "assisted" by the user's grip). Saw a video where Demko even mentions that it could fail under shock. To me, sounds like he doesn't want anyone thinking it's a strong lock.

Anyway, was pleasantly surprised by a delivery today that I totally forgot about (that's the real fun of buying like a maniac). Look at this beauty...

EDIT: hopefully you guys can see the pics now:

Everything CIVIVI did with this one makes me think they were going for tactical (handle shape, blade shape, size). The G10 texture is actually more coarse than on the upgraded Recon 1 scales. The thing is about as big as the Recon 1 in almost every way (blade stock is actually thicker at 0.16"). This one's a keeper for me for sure. I'm having a lot of fun practicing my "Spydie flick" with this. The fit and finish, action, everything about this supports CIVIVI's reputation for excellent value in their knives. Only gripes are the lack of jimping/ramp (what I was whining about before) and liner lock... If CIVIVI makes more knives likes this (and I really hope they do), I would pay more for a stronger lock. Not even talking about a new lock design, even just a thicker liner lock would suffice. I'm definitely no expert, but for the size and heft of this knife, the liner lock bar looks like something they forgot to consider. It's the same thickness as the one on the Baklash. I would assume they are using the same design for all their knives. It's like how Cold Steel puts that same tiny pocket clip on a lot of their big boys like the Recon 1. Also, the liner lock is engaging at just about 10%. I know it's supposed to move farther in with wear/time, but isn't it supposed to start at least around 20%?

 

[000Robert]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I can't see it...

 

[BJ987]

DAngit, I'm using Google Photos. It worked for a couple of pics I posted in this same thread already but it appears not to work for some people. Any tips?

 

[000Robert]

DAngit, I'm using Google Photos. It worked for a couple of pics I posted in this same thread already but it appears not to work for some people. Any tips?

A Gold membership or higher, or an account to www.Imgur.com.

 

[BJ987]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I can't see it...

Can you see them now?

 

[Chronovore]

... Everything CIVIVI did with this one makes me think they were going for tactical (handle shape, blade shape, size). The G10 texture is actually more coarse than on the upgraded Recon 1 scales. The thing is about as big as the Recon 1 in almost every way (blade stock is actually thicker at 0.16"). This one's a keeper for me for sure. I'm having a lot of fun practicing my "Spydie flick" with this. The fit and finish, action, everything about this supports CIVIVI's reputation for excellent value in their knives. Only gripes are the lack of jimping/ramp (what I was whining about before) and liner lock... If CIVIVI makes more knives likes this (and I really hope they do), I would pay more for a stronger lock. Not even talking about a new lock design, even just a thicker liner lock would suffice. I'm definitely no expert, but for the size and heft of this knife, the liner lock bar looks like something they forgot to consider. It's the same thickness as the one on the Baklash. I would assume they are using the same design for all their knives. It's like how Cold Steel puts that same tiny pocket clip on a lot of their big boys like the Recon 1. Also, the liner lock is engaging at just about 10%. I know it's supposed to move farther in with wear/time, but isn't it supposed to start at least around 20%?

Forgive me for being dense but could someone fill me in about this "river"?

In the meantime, I'm glad to see that you are happy with this Civivi. This is one I haven't tried and probably won't given my interest in thinner blades for slicing. Civivi has become my favorite budget brand and it's nice to see feedback on the ones outside of my purview.

I appreciate a strong lock. However, I always have to ask. How strong does the lock on a folding knife really need to be? Exactly how much stronger is lock X vs lock Y? What exactly will we be doing with our folding knife that it's definitely too much for X but definitely okay for Y? Anything tough enough that the last question applies is beyond what I think is appropriate for folders in the first place. Much like my take on defensive applications, I think those tasks call for a fixed blade.

 

[BJ987]

Forgive me for being dense but could someone fill me in about this "river"?

In the meantime, I'm glad to see that you are happy with this Civivi. This is one I haven't tried and probably won't given my interest in thinner blades for slicing. Civivi has become my favorite budget brand and it's nice to see feedback on the ones outside of my purview.

I appreciate a strong lock. However, I always have to ask. How strong does the lock on a folding knife really need to be? Exactly how much stronger is lock X vs lock Y? What exactly will we be doing with our folding knife that it's definitely too much for X but definitely okay for Y? Anything tough enough that the last question applies is beyond what I think is appropriate for folders in the first place. Much like my take on defensive applications, I think those tasks call for a fixed blade.

Firstly, can you see the pics? Secondly, think about a famous retailer that is like so big it's like an Amazing river... Thirdly, while the blade stock is thick, with the full flat grind (I think), and that beautifully executed (IMO) belly, doesn't it help it's slicing capabilities? Even though the blade stock is thicker than the other big knives I own (Recon 1, CQC-4KXL), its blade actually looks thinner than those knives. Maybe because of the grind, swedge, geometry, taper? Alas, I'm still a newb but I'm learning a lot and welcome any correction/criticism. With that humble inexperience, I believe this thing is mostly designed for some mid/heavy work.

EDIT: accidentally posted before finishing... I want to be able to trust that the locks on all the knives I own (or at least the ones I choose to carry) have been tested to demonstrate a relatively high resistance to failure from shock or negative force on the blade. The keyword there being relative... I agree with you that this is a difficult thing to objectively measure for SD/tactical purposes. But, if someone can tap the spine of a knife's blade on a wooden table with moderate force and cause the lock to fail (as I've seen on the internet), I'm not gonna carry that knife for SD.

 

[000Robert]

Can you see them now?

Yep!

 

[BJ987]

Just in: the latest in my manic spree (I think this thread has taken a crazy turn from the beginning):

First thing I thought was "wow..." Like, this thing could've been called the Bulldog or something like that. I've never owned a knife like this. I don't even know what I'd do with it. This is my first "AD" and I have to say the F/F is noticeable compared to even the newer CS knives. I kind of wish that Demko would re-design the American Lawman. BTW you guys' pics look way better than mine. Any advice on that front?

EDIT: I'm pretty sure I got the real deal here. I can't imagine a clone looking/feeling this good. Box/packaging is identical to the other CS knives I own. And I just noticed one "flaw". The blade centering is a little off.. like a few mm to the left... Is that something I should be concerned about?

 

[Dadpool]

Just in: the latest in my manic spree (I think this thread has taken a crazy turn from the beginning):

First thing I thought was "wow..." Like, this thing could've been called the Bulldog or something like that. I've never owned a knife like this. I don't even know what I'd do with it. This is my first "AD" and I have to say the F/F is noticeable compared to even the newer CS knives. I kind of wish that Demko would re-design the American Lawman. BTW you guys' pics look way better than mine. Any advice on that front?

Niiiiiice!

Your photos are just fine. I quite like the solo AD-10 shot. My only photo "secret" is that outdoor light other than direct sunlight looks better than indoor light 99% of the time.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure I got the real deal here. I can't imagine a clone looking/feeling this good. Box/packaging is identical to the other CS knives I own. And I just noticed one "flaw". The blade centering is a little off.. like a few mm to the left... Is that something I should be concerned about?

That's good to hear on the authenticity front. Fit and finish on the AD-10 is at a high level, it feels good to hold a real one.

Blade centering is a contentious topic and IMO it comes down to personal preference. If you really mean a few mm as in 3+ mm, that's a lot for a knife with tolerances this tight. Centering is a bit off on mine. I don't mind as long as it doesn't affect functionality.

 

[soc_monki]

It's probably not off as much as you think it is. Have you tried tightening the pivot? Might be a bit loose (happened to mine).

I'm so glad I got a hollow ground model. I want to try a flat ground though to compare. My 4max Scout is flat, and it seems like it wouldn't cut all that well because it is pretty thick behind the edge, but it does a respectable job! And is not at all hard to carry. I don't even notice the weight, and I only keep my keyfob in that pocket so I don't have to worry about getting anything out!

Go cut down a tree, the ad10 will do it!

 

[Chronovore]

Firstly, can you see the pics? Secondly, think about a famous retailer that is like so big it's like an Amazing river... Thirdly, while the blade stock is thick, with the full flat grind (I think), and that beautifully executed (IMO) belly, doesn't it help it's slicing capabilities? Even though the blade stock is thicker than the other big knives I own (Recon 1, CQC-4KXL), its blade actually looks thinner than those knives. Maybe because of the grind, swedge, geometry, taper? Alas, I'm still a newb but I'm learning a lot and welcome any correction/criticism. With that humble inexperience, I believe this thing is mostly designed for some mid/heavy work.

EDIT: accidentally posted before finishing... I want to be able to trust that the locks on all the knives I own (or at least the ones I choose to carry) have been tested to demonstrate a relatively high resistance to failure from shock or negative force on the blade. The keyword there being relative... I agree with you that this is a difficult thing to objectively measure for SD/tactical purposes. But, if someone can tap the spine of a knife's blade on a wooden table with moderate force and cause the lock to fail (as I've seen on the internet), I'm not gonna carry that knife for SD.

Yes, I can see the pics now. The overall shape and contour of the Vexer make it look very comfortable. Seeing the slight concavity for a thumb rest on the spine, the flow of the handle, the choice of jimping textures on the flipper tab and lockbar, the option of what looks like a very usable finger choil for detail cutting; this looks like a well-thought design. Does it feel as good as it looks during use?

The things you mention do help in slicing. Sometimes, I find that the natural angle of a knife in my hand relative to the belly contour can benefit the cutting stroke. Something else that matters for slicing is thickness behind the edge. Even with a thicker spine, being thin behind the edge can help reduce resistance when cutting into material.

In any cutting that involves the the whole blade moving through a material, resistance can matter a lot. The actual cutting edge is extremely thin and makes a relatively small cut. Beyond that, you are dragging a wedge through the newly separated material. The sides of that wedge translate some of the forward force into sideways force as they push out against the material. This creates resistance or "drag". The shape of the wedge, from thickness behind the edge to maximum spine thickness, and angle of the wedge, and the contour of the wedge all contribute to how a particular knife will feel as it passes through a particular medium.

There are cases such as splitting wood when the wedging action of a blade is crucial. There are cases such as splitting wire where the wedging action helps to curl the material away as you go. However, the corresponding resistance can work against the cutting action in a lot of cases. I've found that in the overwhelming majority of my EDC tasks, I want to minimize the wedging action. Streamlining that wedge reduces resistance and helps a blade to sail through stuff like cardboard.