Getting back in after 15 years... what should I get??

[soc_monki]

That's a spyderco, it's dlc. I haven't had that problem, but maybe 91% will take care of it. Maybe try some soap, water, and a stiff toothbrush. Sometimes simple is better!

 

[BJ987]

So, I did a little research and found a Reddit thread started by someone who had this exact same issue. Turns out alcohol can affect (wouldn't necessarily call it damage) the DLC coating on some blades in that it apparently "dries out" some softer DLC coatings (like Spyderco's). I liberally applied some mineral oil and let it soak in and it looks fairly good as new:

So yeah, I got my first Spyderco folder (I did used to own that Spyderco Bali, but I'm not counting it as a folder for my reasons). I've long been wanting to try out a Spyderco folder. I'll just say it now, I'm one of the few? that find the general Spyderco knife designs hideous. That bird's head profile just doesn't hit me in any right way. So, still wanting to find out if the hype is real, I settled on the Manix 2 XL for several reasons. The "Native" design blade shape isn't so hideous to me, and reviews/research gave me the impression that this was one of Spyderco's more "tactical" and hard use offerings. I have to say I was impressed when I got it. The signature gigantic thumb hole... I get it. The ease of deployment using the hole (not even Spydie-flick, just old-fashioned thumb flick) is so appealing to me. Of all the knives I've ever handled, I find it the easiest/fastest to deploy out of pocket (aka not considering any waved knives, auto knives, assisted knives, etc.) The fidget factor is definitely there, and the personal tactical preferences (ergos, ease of deployment, overall build, blade length/thickness) make me absolutely love this knife. Still bothers me a little that the price tag is where it's at given I can get better steel, similar (if not better) fit and finish, solid locking mechanism, and overall quality on this USA-made knife as Taiwan-made Cold Steels. I suppose that's neither here nor there given CS is reknown for excelling in value in the high-end market. Still, I can't deny that I want more Spyderco... I've even given up on Benchmade after realizing how much bad rap their knives have developed over the past 15 years (omega springs, blade play issues, etc.) In this same price range, while I still oogle over many Benchmade folder designs, the number of negative reviews/issues have nudged me toward Spyderco. I'm still picky: def have concerns with their relatively weak tips on their more popular designs (like the PM2) and of course my distaste of the birds-head aesthetic, but I'm definitely interested in exploring their more uncommon designs... eyeing that PM2 wave exclusive .

 

[soc_monki]

So, I did a little research and found a Reddit thread started by someone who had this exact same issue. Turns out alcohol can affect (wouldn't necessarily call it damage) the DLC coating on some blades in that it apparently "dries out" some softer DLC coatings (like Spyderco's). I liberally applied some mineral oil and let it soak in and it looks fairly good as new:

So yeah, I got my first Spyderco folder (I did used to own that Spyderco Bali, but I'm not counting it as a folder for my reasons). I've long been wanting to try out a Spyderco folder. I'll just say it now, I'm one of the few? that find the general Spyderco knife designs hideous. That bird's head profile just doesn't hit me in any right way. So, still wanting to find out if the hype is real, I settled on the Manix 2 XL for several reasons. The "Native" design blade shape isn't so hideous to me, and reviews/research gave me the impression that this was one of Spyderco's more "tactical" and hard use offerings. I have to say I was impressed when I got it. The signature gigantic thumb hole... I get it. The ease of deployment using the hole (not even Spydie-flick, just old-fashioned thumb flick) is so appealing to me. Of all the knives I've ever handled, I find it the easiest/fastest to deploy out of pocket (aka not considering any waved knives, auto knives, assisted knives, etc.) The fidget factor is definitely there, and the personal tactical preferences (ergos, ease of deployment, overall build, blade length/thickness) make me absolutely love this knife. Still bothers me a little that the price tag is where it's at given I can get better steel, similar (if not better) fit and finish, solid locking mechanism, and overall quality on this USA-made knife as Taiwan-made Cold Steels. I suppose that's neither here nor there given CS is reknown for excelling in value in the high-end market. Still, I can't deny that I want more Spyderco... I've even given up on Benchmade after realizing how much bad rap their knives have developed over the past 15 years (omega springs, blade play issues, etc.) In this same price range, while I still oogle over many Benchmade folder designs, the number of negative reviews/issues have nudged me toward Spyderco. I'm still picky: def have concerns with their relatively weak tips on their more popular designs (like the PM2) and of course my distaste of the birds-head aesthetic, but I'm definitely interested in exploring their more uncommon designs... eyeing that PM2 wave exclusive .

I didn't know alcohol could affect dlc! Learn something new every day! The manix xl is a great choice, but you should also check out a Shaman. I didn't think I would like it and took a chance and man, did it ever impress me.

As for writing off Benchmade, don't. I've got 11 and they're all great. The only bad one I've had was the Crooked River I got on Ebay. Oversharpened blade and a cracked handle. I don't blame Benchmade for it, because it came with no box and I knew I could have gotten a fake. It wasnt, so I sent it in and got a new blade, new scales, and a deep carry clip. I was prepared to pay but Benchmade took care of it, and that made me a customer for life. Only other problem I had was my Super Freek's washers needed a little love. Couldn't get free action with no blade play, so I flattened them (used my Spyderco Medium stone) and after that it is perfect. No play, and super smooth and free action. It was good before, but a little massaging made it amazing. It probably would have broken in over time, I just helped it along!

 

[timw1]

I have a couple higher end 1911's that I have had coated in DLC. The coating will turn a grayish color when not oiled. Oil it and wipe it down and it will turn black, it is the nature of the coating.

 

[Chronovore]

I didn't know about "softer DLC" or "looking dry". Perhaps similarly, G-10 can get a whitish surface look when dried out by alcohol. That also goes away with a little mineral oil. I'm glad to see it worked out here.

I don't buy Benchmade either. I've seen too many posts about QC issues in the last few years. That's not entirely it though. I take gun rights as one of the most serious civil rights issues of our time. I don't care if they take contracts to destroy guns that are going to be destroyed anyway. I'm still concerned about the donations Benchmade had been supplying to members of a political party that is actively dedicated to infringing upon those rights.

 

[BJ987]

I didn't know alcohol could affect dlc! Learn something new every day! The manix xl is a great choice, but you should also check out a Shaman. I didn't think I would like it and took a chance and man, did it ever impress me.

As for writing off Benchmade, don't. I've got 11 and they're all great. The only bad one I've had was the Crooked River I got on Ebay. Oversharpened blade and a cracked handle. I don't blame Benchmade for it, because it came with no box and I knew I could have gotten a fake. It wasnt, so I sent it in and got a new blade, new scales, and a deep carry clip. I was prepared to pay but Benchmade took care of it, and that made me a customer for life. Only other problem I had was my Super Freek's washers needed a little love. Couldn't get free action with no blade play, so I flattened them (used my Spyderco Medium stone) and after that it is perfect. No play, and super smooth and free action. It was good before, but a little massaging made it amazing. It probably would have broken in over time, I just helped it along!

I didn't know about "softer DLC" or "looking dry". Perhaps similarly, G-10 can get a whitish surface look when dried out by alcohol. That also goes away with a little mineral oil. I'm glad to see it worked out here.

I don't buy Benchmade either. I've seen too many posts about QC issues in the last few years. That's not entirely it though. I take gun rights as one of the most serious civil rights issues of our time. I don't care if they take contracts to destroy guns that are going to be destroyed anyway. I'm still concerned about the donations Benchmade had been supplying to members of a political party that is actively dedicated to infringing upon those rights.

Yeah, in that Reddit post someone commented about the range of DLC hardness widely varying by companies from the low 400-600 range to something like 4000? Same guy also said that Spyderco's DLC is on the softer end close to 600. Mineral oil definitely did the trick though. Kind of sucks for me because I like to regularly wipe down my blades with alcohol wipes (like daily).

I had a BM 42 and 551 fifteen years ago. Now that I look back on it, I can't believe I paid over $100 for plastic handles. I don't remember much about them, but I do remember the handles feeling cheap on the 551, especially at that price point. I also remember both came in pretty dull. But yeah, BM was the sht back in the day. I was surprised to see so many issues mentioned around the internet years later. I just don't know if I can bring myself to pay $200 or more on a knife without the quality and construction reflecting that price range. The omega spring issue was a big surprise to me. I didn't have my 551 long enough to experience any issues, but I've definitely seen enough people talk about theirs failing to turn me off, and the AXIS lock is on pretty much every one of the current BM models I'd be interested in. I know about people replacing them with aftermarket springs, which is even more annoying. Hundreds of dollars on something and you have to pay more to replace a part because it sucks? With that being said... I am definitely considering the Flytanium upgrade for my Manix. But that's different because there's nothing functionally wrong with the lock. And there aren't wild reports of it breaking. I just feel like plastic doesn't belong on a $200 knife. That and I think the titanium would look pretty cool .

 

[BJ987]

If you find you like waved knives, the waved Para Military 2 is fantastic.

Dadpool Do you also have a regular PM2? I'm very curious about the blade length/handle length compared to the original. The only video I've found, the guy moves them around instead of juxtaposing them on a table so I can't really tell.

 

[Chronovore]

Yeah, in that Reddit post someone commented about the range of DLC hardness widely varying by companies from the low 400-600 range to something like 4000? Same guy also said that Spyderco's DLC is on the softer end close to 600. Mineral oil definitely did the trick though. Kind of sucks for me because I like to regularly wipe down my blades with alcohol wipes (like daily).

I had a BM 42 and 551 fifteen years ago. Now that I look back on it, I can't believe I paid over $100 for plastic handles. I don't remember much about them, but I do remember the handles feeling cheap on the 551, especially at that price point. I also remember both came in pretty dull. But yeah, BM was the sht back in the day. I was surprised to see so many issues mentioned around the internet years later. I just don't know if I can bring myself to pay $200 or more on a knife without the quality and construction reflecting that price range. The omega spring issue was a big surprise to me. I didn't have my 551 long enough to experience any issues, but I've definitely seen enough people talk about theirs failing to turn me off, and the AXIS lock is on pretty much every one of the current BM models I'd be interested in. I know about people replacing them with aftermarket springs, which is even more annoying. Hundreds of dollars on something and you have to pay more to replace a part because it sucks? With that being said... I am definitely considering the Flytanium upgrade for my Manix. But that's different because there's nothing functionally wrong with the lock. And there aren't wild reports of it breaking. I just feel like plastic doesn't belong on a $200 knife. That and I think the titanium would look pretty cool .

Is the alcohol actually damaging that DLC or is it just making it look whitish from drying it out? Either way, there are other cleaning solutions. Just mineral oil and wiping down with a cloth will remove a lot of unwanted junk from the blade. You can also use a less concentrated alcohol. Heck, cheap vodka at 80 proof (40% ethanol) is a decent and relatively gentle basic cleaner. I keep a spray bottle loaded with vodka for cleaning around the kitchen. (A lot of household cleaning can be accomplished with either vinegar or vodka.) I'll often grab that for spot cleaning on a pocket knife.

Vodka won't totally strip away oils like 91% isopropyl alcohol. I don't worry with stainless but D2 or carbon steels will get wiped down with oil after any kind of cleaning. The main reason to use 91% isopropyl alcohol is for deep cleaning or degreasing, such as for complete maintenance during disassembly or to remove whatever was on it from the factory.

 

[knarfeng]

Chronovore

Keep the politics in the political forum. That's what it is there for.

 

[Dadpool]

Dadpool Do you also have a regular PM2? I'm very curious about the blade length/handle length compared to the original. The only video I've found, the guy moves them around instead of juxtaposing them on a table so I can't really tell.

You bet. Shot as near to straight-down as I can manage.

Same blade:handle ratio, same stock thickness, same length of cutting edge, same handle. If you lay one on top of the other, the blade silhouettes are like a 95% match. Very different grind, and the waved version's blade weighs about 0.5 oz. more.

There's a great thread on the waved model over in the Spydie subforum with lots more pictures.

 

[BJ987]

Is the alcohol actually damaging that DLC or is it just making it look whitish from drying it out? Either way, there are other cleaning solutions. Just mineral oil and wiping down with a cloth will remove a lot of unwanted junk from the blade. You can also use a less concentrated alcohol. Heck, cheap vodka at 80 proof (40% ethanol) is a decent and relatively gentle basic cleaner. I keep a spray bottle loaded with vodka for cleaning around the kitchen. (A lot of household cleaning can be accomplished with either vinegar or vodka.) I'll often grab that for spot cleaning on a pocket knife.

Vodka won't totally strip away oils like 91% isopropyl alcohol. I don't worry with stainless but D2 or carbon steels will get wiped down with oil after any kind of cleaning. The main reason to use 91% isopropyl alcohol is for deep cleaning or degreasing, such as for complete maintenance during disassembly or to remove whatever was on it from the factory.

Is the alcohol actually damaging that DLC or is it just making it look whitish from drying it out? Either way, there are other cleaning solutions. Just mineral oil and wiping down with a cloth will remove a lot of unwanted junk from the blade. You can also use a less concentrated alcohol. Heck, cheap vodka at 80 proof (40% ethanol) is a decent and relatively gentle basic cleaner. I keep a spray bottle loaded with vodka for cleaning around the kitchen. (A lot of household cleaning can be accomplished with either vinegar or vodka.) I'll often grab that for spot cleaning on a pocket knife.

Vodka won't totally strip away oils like 91% isopropyl alcohol. I don't worry with stainless but D2 or carbon steels will get wiped down with oil after any kind of cleaning. The main reason to use 91% isopropyl alcohol is for deep cleaning or degreasing, such as for complete maintenance during disassembly or to remove whatever was on it from the factory.

I guess I should've mentioned, one of the primary reasons I wipe down my blades is to disinfect them. That and I have a lot of alcohol prep pads, so it's also convenient for me. From what I recall, the thread talked about DLC being porous and alcohol basically removing any oils or moisture that is on the coating (hence "drying it out"). So, I'm still not sure whether long-term alcohol wiping (even immediately followed by mineral oil) will damage or shorten the life of the coating. I actually haven't cut anything with my Manix since I found out lol. Been meaning to research more to answer that exact question.

While we're on the topic, anyone know if IPA can damage G10 over time? I know it can make plastic become more brittle and possibly crack, but G10 is... you know... G10...

 

[BJ987]

You bet. Shot as near to straight-down as I can manage.

Same blade:handle ratio, same stock thickness, same length of cutting edge, same handle. If you lay one on top of the other, the blade silhouettes are like a 95% match. Very different grind, and the waved version's blade weighs about 0.5 oz. more.

There's a great thread on the waved model over in the Spydie subforum with lots more pictures.

Thanks!!!! Did you just take that pic for the post or did you already have it? Either way, thanks! lol. But damn I'm kind of bummed. Here's what I don't like about the PM2: handle/blade ratio, thin/fragile tip, and the look (please don't hurt me). I know the waved version fixes two of those qualities for me (thicker/stronger tip, and IMO looks badass. It's weird because BladeOps has the blade length at 3.42" for the regular PM2 and 3.45 for the waved. I know it's such a small difference but in the pic (may be the slight angle) they def look damn near identical. BTW how's the slicing with that saber grind?

If you're wondering why I'm being so particular about the blade length, I'll remind you that I realized after getting a few knives of different blade lengths in my hand that 3.5" is my personal preference minimum. I was actually kind of annoyed at first that when I got my American Lawman in (spec 3.5") it looked short. So, when I put it up to other 3.5 inchers that I have (CIVIVI Baklash and Kershaw CQC-8k) the American Lawman was the shortest! and the Baklash was the longest. And I'm talking noticeable difference, like it was a WTF moment for me for sure. That experience led me to the conclusion that companies measure their blades differently... SO, I had a very hopeful theory about Spyderco... I'm hoping they're on the more conservative side when they spec (if that makes any sense), and that their 3.45" won't make me regret my purchase. Oops, yeah, I already ordered a waved PM 2... Had a particularly bad week so I'm in that fck it kind of mood. (shoulder shrug emote, really wish they had it on here)

 

[Dadpool]

Thanks!!!! Did you just take that pic for the post or did you already have it? Either way, thanks! lol. But damn I'm kind of bummed. Here's what I don't like about the PM2: handle/blade ratio, thin/fragile tip, and the look (please don't hurt me). I know the waved version fixes two of those qualities for me (thicker/stronger tip, and IMO looks badass. It's weird because BladeOps has the blade length at 3.42" for the regular PM2 and 3.45 for the waved. I know it's such a small difference but in the pic (may be the slight angle) they def look damn near identical. BTW how's the slicing with that saber grind?

Took it for you, and no problem. I do tons of knife research using old threads here -- a nice comparison shot is always handy.

If there's a 0.03" difference between the waved and the regular, I can't spot it by eye. (Personally, I couldn't spot the difference between 3.5" and 3.45" in actual use, either.)

Manufacturer specs are sometimes a bit squishy, too -- and then there's the matter of where on the handle you take a measurement. Cold Steel has the AD-15 at 3.5" on their website, and it's every bit of a 3.75" blade.

 

[soc_monki]

Yeah, in that Reddit post someone commented about the range of DLC hardness widely varying by companies from the low 400-600 range to something like 4000? Same guy also said that Spyderco's DLC is on the softer end close to 600. Mineral oil definitely did the trick though. Kind of sucks for me because I like to regularly wipe down my blades with alcohol wipes (like daily).

I had a BM 42 and 551 fifteen years ago. Now that I look back on it, I can't believe I paid over $100 for plastic handles. I don't remember much about them, but I do remember the handles feeling cheap on the 551, especially at that price point. I also remember both came in pretty dull. But yeah, BM was the sht back in the day. I was surprised to see so many issues mentioned around the internet years later. I just don't know if I can bring myself to pay $200 or more on a knife without the quality and construction reflecting that price range. The omega spring issue was a big surprise to me. I didn't have my 551 long enough to experience any issues, but I've definitely seen enough people talk about theirs failing to turn me off, and the AXIS lock is on pretty much every one of the current BM models I'd be interested in. I know about people replacing them with aftermarket springs, which is even more annoying. Hundreds of dollars on something and you have to pay more to replace a part because it sucks? With that being said... I am definitely considering the Flytanium upgrade for my Manix. But that's different because there's nothing functionally wrong with the lock. And there aren't wild reports of it breaking. I just feel like plastic doesn't belong on a $200 knife. That and I think the titanium would look pretty cool .

In my mind my Benchmades are worth every penny. I think the omega spring issue is overblown. At first I avoided fidgeting with them, but now I do it quite a bit. No breakage yet. I know they will eventually, and that's OK, because they can be replaced.

One thing about benchmade is you may pay more, but you're paying for that warranty. I know I can send one of mine in and they'll take care of it. I love spyderco, but I tend to be a little more gentle with them because, well, you can't get a replacement blade. Although they do constantly improve their knives, so I guess it's a catch 22.

And yea, dlc can be different harnesses. I assume spyderco uses a softer dlc because it will hold up better. Harder dlc is probably more brittle and more likely to chip off. Softer will flex and conform a little, and last longer on a blade. I trust spyderco and their dlc, they've done the research!

Careful with the titanium cage. It may or may not play nicely with the steel ball. I haven't really looked into it, but when it comes to parts like that, or stop pins, or axis locks, anything that is steel on titanium and gets a lot of movement or impact, I don't do it. Had a ti stop pin in my para 3 once. Looked great, but after a little while it was the worst lock stick you can imagine. It's all show and no go.

Of course you can change the ball bearing to a ceramic ball, that might avoid the galling...

 

[BJ987]

Took it for you, and no problem. I do tons of knife research using old threads here -- a nice comparison shot is always handy.

If there's a 0.03" difference between the waved and the regular, I can't spot it by eye. (Personally, I couldn't spot the difference between 3.5" and 3.45" in actual use, either.)

Manufacturer specs are sometimes a bit squishy, too -- and then there's the matter of where on the handle you take a measurement. Cold Steel has the AD-15 at 3.5" on their website, and it's every bit of a 3.75" blade.

As far as the AD-15, I did notice that. I actually saw somewhere online spec the blade at 3.65"? before I bought it (maybe it was 3.75", I just know I would've been lot more excited if I saw 3.75" before I got it.) Either way, it was definitely a pleasant surprise to see the blade when I got it (and a confusing surprise to see it say 3.5" right on the Cold Steel box).

I'm fidgeting with my Manix 2 XL right now and man, do I love this thing. Granted, I don't know every Spyderco model out there, I think this is the Spyderco that fits all my preferences the best. As I stated previously, I immediately wanted another Spyderco, but I didn't want the traditional leaf shape blade, wanted the compression or ball-bearing lock, and at least a 3.5" blade. Also, you already know my "tactical/SD if necessary" preference. The first thing that came to mind was the PM 2 wave that you introduced me to a couple weeks ago (last week? who knows).

 

[BJ987]

In my mind my Benchmades are worth every penny. I think the omega spring issue is overblown. At first I avoided fidgeting with them, but now I do it quite a bit. No breakage yet. I know they will eventually, and that's OK, because they can be replaced.

One thing about benchmade is you may pay more, but you're paying for that warranty. I know I can send one of mine in and they'll take care of it. I love spyderco, but I tend to be a little more gentle with them because, well, you can't get a replacement blade. Although they do constantly improve their knives, so I guess it's a catch 22.

And yea, dlc can be different harnesses. I assume spyderco uses a softer dlc because it will hold up better. Harder dlc is probably more brittle and more likely to chip off. Softer will flex and conform a little, and last longer on a blade. I trust spyderco and their dlc, they've done the research!

Careful with the titanium cage. It may or may not play nicely with the steel ball. I haven't really looked into it, but when it comes to parts like that, or stop pins, or axis locks, anything that is steel on titanium and gets a lot of movement or impact, I don't do it. Had a ti stop pin in my para 3 once. Looked great, but after a little while it was the worst lock stick you can imagine. It's all show and no go.

Of course you can change the ball bearing to a ceramic ball, that might avoid the galling...

I have been thinking about that, and the galling concern is probably the primary reason I have yet to pull the trigger (that and it's 40 bucks). I'm definitely gonna do more research. In all honesty, the look or feel of the plastic doesn't bother me all that much. I dig the all black "murdered-out" look. Then again, I think the plain Ti cage will contrast quite nicely with the silver Spyderco logo stamp on the blade . I wonder why no one's made a mod with a steel or aluminum cage+pin AND a slightly shorter/weaker spring to go with it yet... Who knows..maybe Spyderco really did their R&D on this one and found plastic to be the best option to keep that ball-bearing rolling freely like it needs to.

 

[mwhich50]

The Civivi Praxis. IMO, there is no better big, budget blade for $42. It is amazing like the Rat1 was, but on a much higher level.

 

[soc_monki]

I have been thinking about that, and the galling concern is probably the primary reason I have yet to pull the trigger (that and it's 40 bucks). I'm definitely gonna do more research. In all honesty, the look or feel of the plastic doesn't bother me all that much. I dig the all black "murdered-out" look. Then again, I think the plain Ti cage will contrast quite nicely with the silver Spyderco logo stamp on the blade . I wonder why no one's made a mod with a steel or aluminum cage+pin AND a slightly shorter/weaker spring to go with it yet... Who knows..maybe Spyderco really did their R&D on this one and found plastic to be the best option to keep that ball-bearing rolling freely like it needs to.

You can mod the spring, and many people do! I've found that they either break in a bit and get easier, or my thumb gets stronger... I can disengage them with just my thumb. Cutting a couple coils off would help, but I'd rather keep the spring tension. Safer? I don't know, but I don't mind it.

I hear the ceramic ball helps with smoothness though, and have thought about trying it. Just haven't gotten around to it!

 

[Chronovore]

The Civivi Praxis. IMO, there is no better big, budget blade for $42. It is amazing like the Rat1 was, but on a much higher level.

I actually prefer the Naja because the contours fit my hand better.

Of course, all three of the initial 9Cr18Mov knives from Civivi are fantastic. I wasn't happy with the blue liners on the original Baklash but they've since released alternative versions.

 

[BJ987]

The Civivi Praxis. IMO, there is no better big, budget blade for $42. It is amazing like the Rat1 was, but on a much higher level.

Thanks for the suggestion. I was considering the Praxis early on. What a nice pic, did you take that?? Or is it off the website. Anyway, if you like big CIVIVI knives, I would suggest what I actually ended up going with, the Vexer. D2 steel, bigger, spydie-flickable., only about 18 bucks more...