Getting my ducks in a row....

Status
Not open for further replies.
Peter Hartwig said:
Hopefully it will still get there. There is a thread on another forum about slow delivery and being stuck in Opa Locka in particular.
Click to expand...

Yep opa locka is the land of the lost. Once had a package go in there come out, go back in, go out and over and over. I called the postal folks and they had to send a guy to find it stuck going in and out over and over....

For the op...first class means by ground truck haul. Recently had a package shipped to me from utah via this method took many many weeks. I called the postal folks and they said.....and im paraphrasing......first class takes forever and to ignore the predicted arrival date. Many weeks later the truck finally made it to florida and i got it. I wouldn't worry at this point.
 
knifehunt said:
I know first hand, how about that. You go ahead and make a trade, have it get lost then try to collect the insurance. Good luck to you.
Click to expand...

Help us all understand why the post office cares how you bought, got, had, purchased, were given, gave away or traded the item you just insured for shipment.

I can't wait to hear this first hand story.

best

mqqn
 
mqqn said:
Help us all understand why the post office cares how you bought, got, had, purchased, were given, gave away or traded the item you just insured for shipment.

I can't wait to hear this first hand story.

best

mqqn
Click to expand...

You need a receipt for the item sent period. When you do an ebay transaction, there is a receipt, and that is what the USPS wants to see. They do not pay an insurance claim just because you purchased insurance.
 
When it happens to you, try to collect. I had an insured package disappear and the USPS would not honor the insurance claim without an actual receipt. I had the value in writing from the manufacturer, but without an actual receipt they would do nothing. So my advice is good, and you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
knifehunt said:
When it happens to you, try to collect. I had an insured package disappear and the USPS would not honor the insurance claim without an actual receipt. I had the value in writing from the manufacturer, but without an actual receipt they would do nothing. So my advice is good, and you have no idea what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

Just because you took no for an answer does not mean you are right. Look at the actual USPS document I just posted for you, pay specific attention to item 4.1.a - Payable Claim - value clause.

Then look at section 3.2, evidence of value, where it specifies how you can show the value of an item. This proves YOU don't know what you are talking about.

So let's go back to my original statement, take it like a man and eat the cost.

I am skeptical you could get the full value for anything that you shipped insured, but that is another matter altogether.

Maybe Esav can step in, he knows a lot about the USPS, having worked there so many years.

best

mqqn
 
First can we stop talking about insurance and whether it would or would not have been covered. It doesn't matter in this case as it wasn't purchased.

As for the mailing situation I suggest giving it a few more days considering were in a fairly busy time for the mail.

Look at it way,if your neighbor asked to borrow a drill and lost it while it was in his possession he'd be responsible to replace it or give you the money.
 
Lately it seems these FEEDBACK posts are getting off track and turning into pissing contest..

SPINNY shipped a knife, it didn't arrive. No one else is responsible (or partially responsible) for the loss.
If it doesn't arrive, SPINNY owes the other person the knife SPINNY received and all the cash.
Just my 2 cents.
 
Ok. Undeleted since the topic keeps coming up.

USPS says, in so many words, the issue is "value." Not price. Not how you paid.

How do you prove value?

Proof of Value

Proof of value can include:

. A sales receipt
. A paid invoice or paid bill of sale
. Statement of value and/or estimates of repair costs from a reputable dealer
. A credit card billing statement
. Receipt of costs incurred for reconstruction of non-negotiable documents
. Printouts of the online transaction identifying the purchaser and seller, price paid, date of transaction, description of item purchased, and assurance that the transaction status is completed.
Click to expand...

https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm

A different USPS site, gives this example of proof of value:
c. Picture from a catalog showing the value of a similar article (only if a sales receipt, invoice, or statement of value from a reputable dealer is not available). The date and place of purchase must be included.
Click to expand...

http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm/s010.htm
 
Last edited:
knifehunt said:
I had an insured package disappear and the USPS would not honor the insurance claim without an actual receipt. I had the value in writing from the manufacturer, but without an actual receipt they would do nothing.
Click to expand...

This is correct.
I work at something of a mail center for USPS. It's not as simple as slapping on $400 worth of insurance and assuming that if the package is lost they give you $400. Should they? Yes. Is that how it works? Unfortunately not.
A Paypal transaction can usually serve as a receipt, and therefore a value for the item shipped. Though it wouldn't work in this specific situation because of the trade aspect and the fact that friends & family was used.
 
jbmonkey said:
Yep opa locka is the land of the lost. Once had a package go in there come out, go back in, go out and over and over. I called the postal folks and they had to send a guy to find it stuck going in and out over and over....

For the op...first class means by ground truck haul. Recently had a package shipped to me from utah via this method took many many weeks. I called the postal folks and they said.....and im paraphrasing......first class takes forever and to ignore the predicted arrival date. Many weeks later the truck finally made it to florida and i got it. I wouldn't worry at this point.
Click to expand...

250 miles or more, First Class Mail goes by "fastest available," which usually means by air. "1995, when the USPS began transporting First-Class mail by air on a routine basis." So "Air Mail" went away.

This is no consolation if you package seems to take forever to arrive.
 
I know this is precisely what you said you didn't want to hear, but - If he doesn't get what he paid for, it's on you, whether you did everything right or not. One reason that is the case is that you could have purchased insurance. The shipper is the one who has to do that, not the recipient.
 
Personally, when I add cash on top of a trade I always send it PayPal GOODS. I add the fees that way the other party receives the agreed upon amount. Something to consider for the future.
 
michaedma said:
This is correct.
I work at something of a mail center for USPS. It's not as simple as slapping on $400 worth of insurance and assuming that if the package is lost they give you $400. Should they? Yes. Is that how it works? Unfortunately not.
A Paypal transaction can usually serve as a receipt, and therefore a value for the item shipped. Though it wouldn't work in this specific situation because of the trade aspect and the fact that friends & family was used.
Click to expand...

Thank you...
 
"Neither he nor I requested insurance for the goods being shipped (stay tuned)."

You take the risk, you take the responsibility if a loss occurs.
It's as simple as that.

As for not being able to collect on insurance unless the item was part of a transaction: B.S.
Learn about it on the USPS website here: http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm300/609.htm#1097213

As for how you should refund him if the item never arrives, you should give him the full dollar value the knife was given in the trade, or whatever is acceptable to him (return of his knife with shipping insurance plus cash, etc, or whatever makes him "whole" again regardless of the cost to you).

If the shoe were on the other foot, you'd expect the same consideration for you, no?
 
robgmn said:
"Neither he nor I requested insurance for the goods being shipped (stay tuned)."

You take the risk, you take the responsibility if a loss occurs.
It's as simple as that.

As for not being able to collect on insurance unless the item was part of a transaction: B.S.
Learn about it on the USPS website here: http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm300/609.htm#1097213

As for how you should refund him if the item never arrives, you should give him the full dollar value the knife was given in the trade, or whatever is acceptable to him (return of his knife with shipping insurance plus cash, etc, or whatever makes him "whole" again regardless of the cost to you).

If the shoe were on the other foot, you'd expect the same consideration for you, no?
Click to expand...

Thank you .
 
knifehunt said:
Even if the package were insured the USPS would not honor it as there is no receipt for this transaction, therefore no insurance claim would be paid. When you trade, you are basically SOL.

Edit: Keep in mind it was sent via First Class and there is no guarantee on delivery time, especially during the holiday season. Even Priority is NOT guaranteed 2-3 days, it's just an estimate. Call the postal service 800 number and put a trace on it, I'm sure it will show up.
Click to expand...

I believe that is incorrect. Its valuables regardless. Same as if you ship a gift and it gets lost, otherwise insurance would only be available for business only.
 
The knife still belongs to you until it safely arrives! He held up to his end and you didn't. If it's lost you pay him back and send his knife back, he shouldn't be out a dime.

If you buy a knife from Blade HQ and it doesn't show up are they gonna say "sorry we will only charge you half"?
 
Spinny - I am betting that you are fine -

I have had some packages take some wild trips around the country, and some have noted problems with your area.

I have had EXCELLENT experience with the USPS, shipping over 100 packages for the 2010 Traditional forum knife with ZERO problems, and several of those packages were international.

In those packages, some of the international packages arrived well before some of the domestic packages; and I figure that is because the larger hubs move packages more efficiently than some of the smaller ones you find in the USA.

I live 15 miles outside of a smallish metropolitan area in Illinois, and my packages always take a day longer than most other peoples experience, just part of the deal for me.

Good luck - You did the packaging acceptably, took pictures of the package and have your records, so insurance aside, you did everything 100% -

I hope the next time I look in this thread you have posted that your trade partner received your end and is delighted.

best

mqqn
 
Well here's what I found as it relates to the Uniform Commercial Code and losses. Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_of_loss

"3. Delivery by common carrier other than by seller.
1. Risk of loss shifts from seller to buyer at the time that seller completes its delivery obligations"

The buyer and I both agreed that we would deliver the knives which were to be traded to USPS on a particular day. That, in my opinion, was the extent of our delivery obligations. Now I would never be the guy who says: "I did my part, so screw you, dude!" Even though based on the above I certainly could...and earn myself a negative feedback at the same time I'm sure. BTW, Blade HQ is a for-profit business. I'm just an average guy and I've never made money on a sale or trade. There's a difference.

Also, I looked up the USPS insurance claims process here: http://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/manuals/dmm300/609.pdf

Per section 3.2 of this document there's no way I could have provided any proof of value under these circunstances, so whether or not insurance was purchased is irrelevant as USPS would obviously not be covering a potential loss. If anyone has successfully filed a claim under similar circumstances, I'm all ears.

It's clear that the buyer held up his end of the bargain. But it's equally clear that I've held up my end too. I've done everything that I was supposed to do per our agreement. I packaged it properly and delivered it to the agreed upon third party shipper. Never did I say that I will personally guarantee its delivery. If that had come up in our conversation, obviously measures would have been taken beforehand. And yes, in all future transactions it will now come up ;) But I've sent and received literally hundreds of packages via USPS and never has one been lost completely so it's not something I've worried about. And I've always trusted that the other party--whether buyer or seller--would respond reasonably if such a loss were to occur. And I'm confident that the many people with whom I've done business with would be willing to agree. As some have stated, if it were ENTIRELY my responsibility to ensure the goods are delivered to him in hand, short of driving from Florida to Pennsylvania I'm not sure that anything else could be 100% guaranteed. What I can't seem to understand is how a buyer can make the ASSERTION that a seller should be held ENTIRELY LIABLE for a loss when it's obvious that the seller did EXAXCTLY what was agreed upon. In this situation the fault is clearly a third party (USPS) with whom there is unfortunately no recourse. Because there is no recourse, I see it as equally the fault of the buyer and seller.

.....and for the record I still think it'll get delivered. So this whole thread is just a big "what if..." at this point. But I see where most people's heads are at. And I thank everyone who's taken the time to chime in.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top