Ghosting?

David Mary

David Mary

pass the mustard - after you cut it
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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Jul 23, 2015
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Hey guys, let's say you are hired to make a commissioned piece, and spent time emailing back and forth to dial in the design, get approval, take a deposit, then start, and finish the work, and send pics of the completed item, and request the balance due.

How long do you wait to hear back from the customer before you consider yourself "ghosted", and what steps do you take next, and in what order and timeframe? Just looking for opinions, not saying it has happened, but it might, and I haven't dealt with it before, so just nice to see what is considered the "correct" response if it ever does.

Thanks!
 
I always make sure I have at least 2-3 ways to contact the customer. phone email and address

Depends on the value of the item. And if he’s a previous customer or not?

if this hasn't actually happened, then It’s a good time to establish your policy and make it known on future orders

anyway I’d say 1-3 months, send a letter in the mail and then move on
 
Make up a work order that needs signed and dated by you and your client. Make sure the work order has the ability to capture the customer’s service request for the product being made.

Attach a legal agreement that spells out expectations from both parties. Include verbiage that shows an added fee by percentage of the total for late payment.
 
MolokaiRider said:
Make up a work order that needs signed and dated by you and your client. Make sure the work order has the ability to capture the customer’s service request for the product being made.

Attach a legal agreement that spells out expectations from both parties. Include verbiage that shows an added fee by percentage of the total for late payment.
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Legal agreement? I know you’re trying to be helpful...but seriously, what’s the practical use of that?

there are a couple of great things about knifemaking as a career, Making a lot of money isn’t one of them. But simplicity in life and freedom are a couple of the great things.

A legal agreement implies that you have some path to a remedy. How much time and effort and money is one going to spend on that? When they could just simply move on....

that’s what I would do, move on.

Another great thing about this job is that you basically never have to worry about getting paid. Only recently after some 300 knives has someone committed to a knife and then decided that they couldn’t pay or whatever.

I always think that the best thing to do is self insure, when you can
 
One of the last commissions I took ended just about this way. Fortunately it was a relatively basic model that I had already made and sold a few of in the past, so it wasn't hard to sell, but it's still very annoying to go back and forth for several emails, settle on a model or design, give and meet a determined deadline, and then just have the customer disappear without so much as a "sorry I changed my mind".

At any rate, I think I gave it 2 or 3 weeks as I wasn't in a hurry.

This is one reason I don't like to take deposits. That way I don't have any real obligation to the customer if they decide to demand their knife a month after I sell it to somebody else. It also protects the customer if something happens to me and I can't finish the knife for whatever reason.

In this case, as long as you've made every effort to contact them, especially if it's through a means that you've previously communicated through, I'd say give it a couple weeks and then do you feel you need to do.
 
HSC /// said:
there are a couple of great things about knifemaking as a career, Making a lot of money isn’t one of them. But simplicity in life and freedom are a couple of the great things.
Click to expand...

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HSC /// said:
Legal agreement? I know you’re trying to be helpful...but seriously, what’s the practical use of that?

there are a couple of great things about knifemaking as a career, Making a lot of money isn’t one of them. But simplicity in life and freedom are a couple of the great things.

A legal agreement implies that you have some path to a remedy. How much time and effort and money is one going to spend on that? When they could just simply move on....

that’s what I would do, move on.

Another great thing about this job is that you basically never have to worry about getting paid. Only recently after some 300 knives has someone committed to a knife and then decided that they couldn’t pay or whatever.

I always think that the best thing to do is self insure, when you can
Click to expand...

Its cool, I get it. It’s not terribly hard to write up a simple contract to protect your business as well as your client. If it’s not that important to you, more power to ya. I am assuming you have business insurance as well right?

For me personally, having that layer of security and professionalism adds value to my business and can actually increase sales.

It may work for you, it may not. That’s entirely up to the individual.
 
MolokaiRider said:
Its cool, I get it. It’s not terribly hard to write up a simple contract to protect your business as well as your client. If it’s not that important to you, more power to ya. I am assuming you have business insurance as well right?

For me personally, having that layer of security and professionalism adds value to my business and can actually increase sales.

It may work for you, it may not. That’s entirely up to the individual.
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Business insurance? Nope.
If I have to do all that, I’ll go out and get a real job and make real money.

Insurance is a profit making venture and they are not doing it for your benefit

I prefer to self insure as much as possible.
 
In other industries, there is a "receipt" of sorts to indicate the deposit given, the date at which the order was made, how much the balance is (due on arrival of product), the estimate time to completion and the length of time client has to either pay and receive the product or default on the product and the deposit. My experience has been that that length of time is 30 days. Usually shorter if a custom piece. Custom pieces get 14 days.

It can be as informal as a hand written document on the company receipt with letterhead, or as complex as a detailed contract between buyer and seller signed off by an attorney and notary public.

Your business needs to be protected. Specifically if it your sole means of income.
 
Insurance policies serve one purpose: to protect until self insurance is achieved.
 
Ron Raducanu said:
As much as I appreciate your sentiment, when dealing with your livelihood, business insurance is valuable. For a huge variety of reasons. Even for the small self employed bunch.
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Of course it is. When I owned auto collision shops in Los Angeles (three of them) absolutely we had business insurance. When my father owned a small grocery market and the place burned down, we were very grateful that the insurance covered the loss. I get it.
But not for a sole proprietor knifemaking.
 
I guess I’m confused by the thread. If you as a knife maker are concerned about not getting paid for work commissioned, why would you not want some sort of legal agreement?
 
MolokaiRider said:
I guess I’m confused by the thread. If you as a knife maker are concerned about not getting paid for work commissioned, why would you not want some sort of legal agreement?
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I can explain and answer for myself. The short answer is - Because I don’t need it. The way I sell my knives it’s based on a relationship. I know all my customers. I never worry about getting paid. Its one of the great positives of this job. Sure there are rare exceptions.
Many times I send out the knife without payment, and they always pay. Because I’ve established and cultivated the relationship upfront. It’s a way of self insuring.
The one guy (new customer) who I recently had a problem with, who committed to a knife and then flaked on me, he’s never going to get a knife from me.

your advice is well taken but again from a practical perspective, what is the point of a legal agreement if you can’t seek out a remedy on a practical basis...
 
After a reasonable effort to contact them, list it for your usual price minus half the deposit you took. Then it should sell quickly and you're still ahead...a win win.
 
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