Ghosting?

Unless you're dealing with some serious materials investment, don't take money up front.

Legal contracts work both ways.
 
MolokaiRider said:
You knife makers are crazy.:p:p:p
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You can not make a customer buy a knife, even if they ordered it. Makers make knives, they have the knife in possession and will sell it.

Haha trying to make a person buy a knife they do not want, that is the best joke I heard all day LOL
 
AVigil said:
You can not make a customer buy a knife, even if they ordered it. Makers make knives, they have the knife in possession and will sell it.

Haha trying to make a person buy a knife they do not want, that is the best joke I heard all day LOL
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Not sure why you are quoting me?

I offered an idea and suggestion, which are worth exactly what was paid for both.

If that’s how you run your business that’s entirely your choice.
 
MolokaiRider said:
Not sure why you are quoting me?
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Because I am "Crazy" LOL:confused::confused::confused::confused:

Of course it is my choice and it is a good one due to decades of experience dealing with "Many will order and some will pay"
 
"Don't quote me bro."

^ with quotes. Be looking over my shoulder the rest of the night. ;)
 
MolokaiRider said:
Okey dokey, I had no intention of offending anyone. Rather, I meant it in an endearing way.

I’m glad your business model works for you. :thumbsup:
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Actually it’s a good discussion. The comment about insurance made me reflect on risk. The greatest risk to me in terms of knifemaking is being injured.
Being Injured means I can’t work.
That is a problem.
Just the other day forging I had the mixture to lean, and forge scale shot out at my face when the hammer struck. I felt no pain but had a corneal abrasion. In short I lost the day going to urgent care and an Opthamalogist. Everything is fine with my eye but it was a little wake up call.
 
MolokaiRider said:
I guess I’m confused by the thread. If you as a knife maker are concerned about not getting paid for work commissioned, why would you not want some sort of legal agreement?
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Just my own $.02 as a part time/hobbyist maker (it'd probably be the same if I went full time): If I took commissions for $10k worth of knives, I'd probably work in a contract or legal agreement of some sort. 99.99% of what I sell costs me relatively little to make, the custom orders I used to take averaged about $200 to $300 or so.

It's not worth my time or money to take legal action against somebody who owes me $300, especially when I only invested a very small fraction of that in material and consumables costs, and I can still turn around and sell the knife to somebody else, 99% of the time. In fact, I once had a previous customer order two knives from me a year or so after making another custom order for him. When the time came to pay up, he fell off the earth for about a month or so. He finally messages me back saying that he had some unforeseen medical emergency, and could no longer pay for the knives. I ended up selling each knife individually and ultimately made $50 more than the original quoted price for the two knives together. I was happy, the two new customers were happy, and when I told the first customer not to worry about it, he was happy. Sure, the knives sat for an extra couple months, but oh well.
 
OK, guys. It is getting off track here.

The OP wanted to know what makers do when this happens. The answer was to try and contact the customer, and if there is no response in a reasonable time (a month or two) sell the knife to someone else.
 
AVigil said:
You can not make a customer buy a knife, even if they ordered it. Makers make knives, they have the knife in possession and will sell it.

Haha trying to make a person buy a knife they do not want, that is the best joke I heard all day LOL
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I don' think that's really the point. If you've never played "World of Warcraft", the little goblins in the game have a saying. "Time is money, friend". Of course you can't "make" someone buy something they don't want, but there has to be something in place to make sure you can get your money somehow.

I've seen this happen with expensive, custom made goods. Someone makes a deposit. No written "contract". Doesn't pick up "in a reasonable amount of time" according to the seller. He sells product. Six months later, buyer wants said product and sues because he can't get it. All could have been avoided with a hand written note outlining sale details.

People suck. Protect yourself. Bottom line is, if you are selling a product. it's a business. And that deserves to be protected.
 
Drew Riley said:
It's not worth my time or money to take legal action against somebody who owes me $300, especially when I only invested a very small fraction of that in material and consumables costs, and I can still turn around and sell the knife to somebody else, 99% of the time. In fact, I once had a previous customer order two knives from me a year or so after making another custom order for him. When the time came to pay up, he fell off the earth for about a month or so. He finally messages me back saying that he had some unforeseen medical emergency, and could no longer pay for the knives. I ended up selling each knife individually and ultimately made $50 more than the original quoted price for the two knives together. I was happy, the two new customers were happy, and when I told the first customer not to worry about it, he was happy. Sure, the knives sat for an extra couple months, but oh well.
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How much is your time worth? That's really at issue here.
 
wow, that slight turn kept turning...
Because DavidMary asked a hypothetical question in trying to plan for the future (and because y'all want to read what I think:rolleyes:;)), there was a suggestion to come up with some sort of "legal" contract to define this and protect both parties. I think part of what HSC/// is saying when he wrote:
HSC /// said:
Legal agreement? I know you’re trying to be helpful...but seriously, what’s the practical use of that?
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is that in order for these contracts to have any teeth, so-to-speak, you have to be willing to pay for an attorney or spend the time to force someone to honor the contract. And unless we're talking about multiple thousands of dollars, one should ask themselves: is it worth the cost of <$100 in materials and however many hours one have into the knife in question?
The insurance question is another debate that should probably have it's own thread.
Stay safe everyone.



whatever that means:cool:
MolokaiRider said:
You knife makers are crazy.:p:p:p
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and????;)
 
weo said:
...is that in order for these contracts to have any teeth, so-to-speak, you have to be willing to pay for an attorney or spend the time to force someone to honor the contract.
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Not really. If you both have an agreement in writing, that's all the teeth you need.

"You have 30 days from time of notification that the project is complete to pay the balance, at which time you receive finished project. If you don't pay within that 30 day window, you forfeit your deposit and I am free to sell said product to another buyer."

Put that in writing, have the potential buyer get a copy, sign it, and done. Or a simple e-mail with these terms, and have the buyer send an e-mail back agreeing, in writing. Takes no time at all. If you care enough. I always prefer to have something in writing. Even the simplest of transactions. Avoids issues and hurt feelings.
 
Ron Raducanu said:
"You have 30 days from time of notification that the project is complete to pay the balance, at which time you receive finished project. If you don't pay within that 30 day window, you forfeit your deposit and I am free to sell said product to another buyer."
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Makes sense to me.
 
You've made your point but may have missed the one that in the majority of cases there is no deposit or contract. The knifemaker owns the product, the labor is his choice and has the freedom to sell or even ignore the customer if he decides it's warranted.
James
 
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I've only had that happen a few times thankfully. I have found that by-in-large the knife collecting community to be an honorable group.
I know that sometimes people change their minds or get hit with unexpected expenses and the extra cash for a luxury item isn't there. I'd hold a knife for months and months if someone still wanted a knife and just needed more time. I also wouldn't hold a grudge if they just changed their mind. It disheartening that there are some people who just can't be courteous and communicate with a simple email.
To make my life simple knowing that this can happen from time to time I've adopted a few rules for myself. I don't take deposits. I won't make something that I can't sell, sorry fantasy sword guys LOL. If I get the feeling someone is going to be difficult I will respectfully tell them I don't think I'm the right person for the job. I recently had a customer who was still having me tweak a design and we were 33 emails in. I referred him out.
Life's too short.
On a similar note I just had a knife that I posted for sale and someone on IG posted "I'll take it" last Sunday and he still hasn't paid. I'm probably going to send him an email today and request that he pay in the next 24 hours or I'm going to repost the knife. This is probably more annoying to me than the person whose situation changed since they placed the order 2 months ago.
 
JamesBro said:
You've made your point but may have missed the one that in the majority of cases there is no deposit or contract. The knifemaker owns the product, the labor is his choice and has the freedom to sell or even ignore the customer if he decides it's warranted.
James
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That really depends what his goals are as a knifemaker. I have no illusions that I can make any kind of living selling knives. I just finished my first. If you are trying to make a name for yourself, and even somewhat rely on this craft to make a living, what you describe is bad business. Unlike art, per se, there are rules to running a successful business. And even if you are the greatest at what you do, if you can't sell your product because people don't want to deal with you, well, you don't run much of a business that way and you won't get very far. Back in the day, that wasn't much of an issue. But today, the business is crowded and the internet makes it easy to find what you're looking for.
 
Ron Raducanu said:
How much is your time worth? That's really at issue here.
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It varies. :D When working for others, it's been worth anywhere from $5 to about $53 per hour. When working for myself? I'm lucky to break even sometimes. haha
Then again, this is part of what sets professionals apart from hobbyists, and successful businesses from unsuccessful: better time management and getting paid for that time.

Ron Raducanu said:
Not really. If you both have an agreement in writing, that's all the teeth you need.

"You have 30 days from time of notification that the project is complete to pay the balance, at which time you receive finished project. If you don't pay within that 30 day window, you forfeit your deposit and I am free to sell said product to another buyer."

Put that in writing, have the potential buyer get a copy, sign it, and done. Or a simple e-mail with these terms, and have the buyer send an e-mail back agreeing, in writing. Takes no time at all. If you care enough. I always prefer to have something in writing. Even the simplest of transactions. Avoids issues and hurt feelings.
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Ok, I can get behind the disclaimer of a payment deadline "or else" as more of a CYA. I'm sure it doesn't remove 100% of headaches associated with the occasional problematic customer, but I can see where that might be useful to point to from time to time.
 
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