Giraffe Bone??

HI David,

I think we all need to understand that;

Makers....service the Primary Market.

Dealers/Entrepreneurs....service the Secondary Market.

Collectors....drive both the Primary and Secondary Markets.

Personally, I don't like brass, Nickel silver and Mokume. It would appear that the collector and businessman in me agree about this.

Giraffe Bone, I can see why people would use it. I don't have anything personally against G-Bone. However, as a Businessman servicing the Secondary Market....COLLECTORS have been telling me they are not interested in buying knives with Giraffe bone.

As someone pointed out, much of it early on had those ugly colors and were used to a large extent by beginning makers and used on a lot of inexpensive knives. This probably more so than anything has contributed to, if not created the lack of desire for knives with G-Bone in the after market.

Because the collectors/customers are telling me they would prefer other materials on their knives. As a businessman I am inclined to carry knives with the handle my/potential customers would like.

Many collectors watch not only BF, but other Internet Forums. They read both sides of the debate. Some see knives like the Jerry Lairson knife in the other G-Bone Thread. Nice looking knife. Most people won't post one of the knives with the purple and yellow G-Bone handle here. However, you can find them on the for sale forums.

Then compound that with makers like Arthur Washburn pointing out from the maker perspective that Ivory or Pearl has a better ROI for the maker in the Primary market. Combined with me saying that there is "depressed" market for G-Bone in the after market. At a minimum, you have to at least weigh your options.

If on a $400 - $800 knife you can increase your chance for a better share of the market place (Primary and Secondary). Don't you have to at least consider spending the extra $50 for a better handle material?

Are there knives with nice looking G-Bone handles? Yes.

Are there far more with that less desirable "Dyed purple, blue, green, yellow, etc. G-Bone scale materials out there? Yes.

Do my posts affect the sale of knives with G-Bone handle? Apparently not. Look at all the posts both in this thread and in others defending the use of G-Bone.

What my posts with regards to my like or dislike of certain materials are driven by collector wants and desires in the After Market.

Hope this helps to clear things up.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
David Schott said:
I, too would like to know the REASON collectors don't want giraffe bone. We get it...they don't want it....but why not? Any solid info other than personal preference?
Click to expand...

David, personal preference IS a solid reason. Custom knife purchases are an (often) expensive expression of personal preference. I'm not sure what more solid reason there could be.

Some guys don't like sheep horn. Some guys don't like damascus. Some guys don't like fancy folders. I'm not really sure what solid reasons might exist for these preferences, either.

Again, I speak only for myself - I don't find the material particularly appealing. I don't hate it, detest it or find it distasteful. I just have a very long list of choices I would put ahead of it. And custom knives are all about me spending my money on knives that appeal to me.

While investment is not my primary consideration in a knife purchase, it is a significant consideration. So my subjective indifference to the material combined with the objective reality (as I see it) of uncertain resale means that it is unliely that I would purchase a knife so equipped.

That ironwood that you have on the chopper you have posted before - I would take that 10 times out of 10 over any giraffe bone I have ever seen.

Roger
 
Les Robertson said:
Hi Art,

So you find that there is a better return on Investment buying Ivory and Pearl over Giraffe bone.

By saying that you are echoing what collectors have been telling me for the last 3 years.
Click to expand...

I can't belive it took collectors 3 years to figure it out Les. I've made exactly ONE knife with G-bone that was put up for sale (over 8 years ago). It was originally made for my wife. She picked out the bone but ended up not liking the knife design. I sold it through a dealer after having is sit on my table for over a year. G-bone has no value to the people I market my knives too.
 
David Schott said:
Do they not hold their value in the after market because no collectors want them, or because reputable dealers like youself fail to stock them, sending a clear message to everyone that they are not desired and driving the secondary market prices down through implied worthlessness? In other words, do collectors not want them because enough dealers refuse to sell them in the secondary market, and in that case, complete the cycle of decreasing their desirability?
Click to expand...

Mr. Schott,

I believe the only accusation worth levelling at Robertson is that he buys what he can sell.

Were the lesser market value of giraffe bone due to the scenario you propose, it would stand that you could just as easily create a giraffe-bone renaissance and not only beat those miserly dealers at their own game, but force them to start buying and selling knives with giraffe bone handles to avoid going broke. Assuming your suspicion is correct and that my accusation is worthless and not worth Les, why not go for it?

Some of it looks good, but I'm more of a fan of phenomenal phenolics and stabilized hardwoods.
 
Hi Art,

As I have been reminded numerous times, collectors buy what they like.

You have found that, for your market, you customers are not interested in G-Bone.

I have found in my market, that my customers are not interested in G-Bone.

Obviously there are other markets out there where G-Bone is acceptable.

If the maker likes working it and the buyer likes the knife, they are both happy.

If it ends there, great for all involved

But as we all know collectors often have a change of heart or look to move one knife to fund a purchase for another. That is where the "rub" occurs.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutley.com.
 
Has giraffe bone gotten a bad rep because it was a "cheap substitute" for stag or because of the Kooky Kolors that some folks dyed it or both? I saw some in Paris that was polished up like ivory and it didn't look half bad.
 
Les Robertson said:
HI David,

I think we all need to understand that;

Makers....service the Primary Market.

Dealers/Entrepreneurs....service the Secondary Market.

Collectors....drive both the Primary and Secondary Markets.

Personally, I don't like brass, Nickel silver and Mokume. It would appear that the collector and businessman in me agree about this.

Giraffe Bone, I can see why people would use it. I don't have anything personally against G-Bone. However, as a Businessman servicing the Secondary Market....COLLECTORS have been telling me they are not interested in buying knives with Giraffe bone.

As someone pointed out, much of it early on had those ugly colors and were used to a large extent by beginning makers and used on a lot of inexpensive knives. This probably more so than anything has contributed to, if not created the lack of desire for knives with G-Bone in the after market.

Because the collectors/customers are telling me they would prefer other materials on their knives. As a businessman I am inclined to carry knives with the handle my/potential customers would like.

Many collectors watch not only BF, but other Internet Forums. They read both sides of the debate. Some see knives like the Jerry Lairson knife in the other G-Bone Thread. Nice looking knife. Most people won't post one of the knives with the purple and yellow G-Bone handle here. However, you can find them on the for sale forums.

Then compound that with makers like Arthur Washburn pointing out from the maker perspective that Ivory or Pearl has a better ROI for the maker in the Primary market. Combined with me saying that there is "depressed" market for G-Bone in the after market. At a minimum, you have to at least weigh your options.

If on a $400 - $800 knife you can increase your chance for a better share of the market place (Primary and Secondary). Don't you have to at least consider spending the extra $50 for a better handle material?

Are there knives with nice looking G-Bone handles? Yes.

Are there far more with that less desirable "Dyed purple, blue, green, yellow, etc. G-Bone scale materials out there? Yes.

Do my posts affect the sale of knives with G-Bone handle? Apparently not. Look at all the posts both in this thread and in others defending the use of G-Bone.

What my posts with regards to my like or dislike of certain materials are driven by collector wants and desires in the After Market.

Hope this helps to clear things up.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Click to expand...


I appreciate the response. I hope my posts didnt come off like I was accusing you of any specific evil plan to do away with giraffe bone, I was more curious than anything else. Sometimes what is "hot" is influenced by a collective shared desire for a particular style or materials, and other times what is "hot" is influenced pretty heavily by what people see and hear separate from their own personal opinion. I am not volunteering to be the giraffe bone renaissance man by any means....i like to be out of the box a bit, but im not crazy! :D
 
Les Robertson said:
Who is that buys what I sell?
Click to expand...

I'll send my better half your regards.

I don't buy what you sell (your records will verify that's currently true) and my purchases are towards knife-consuming entertainment, but your focus on value-pricing and my focus towards buying a knife that is useful for entertainment leads towards the same direction and some of the same makers. Only the value I've accrued will be wiped out by death and can be wiped out by memory-loss before then whereas yours may be passed on to progeny.
 
thombrogan said:
Mr. Schott,

I believe the only accusation worth levelling at Robertson is that he buys what he can sell.

Were the lesser market value of giraffe bone due to the scenario you propose, it would stand that you could just as easily create a giraffe-bone renaissance and not only beat those miserly dealers at their own game, but force them to start buying and selling knives with giraffe bone handles to avoid going broke. Assuming your suspicion is correct and that my accusation is worthless and not worth Les, why not go for it?

Some of it looks good, but I'm more of a fan of phenomenal phenolics and stabilized hardwoods.
Click to expand...

I wasn't accusing....I was suggesting that he may be influencing the market. Doesnt mean he is doing it consciously....

As for your second point, I am going to go out on a limb and say that if a lot of the top ABS MS guys started putting out high volumes of knives with giraffe bone handles, dealers would start stocking them. Would it mean a change in opinion on the material? I think that if we started see classier, fantastic designs like some posted here recently, there could indeed be a change in heart. Lobsters used to be thought of as food for the poor, after all.
 
Karl B. Andersen said:
I think it's the perfect handle material.
It is the densest bone on the planet.
Consider the strength necessary to support the lateral stresses of the VERY top-heavy giraffe!?!!
The bone is collected from lion kills.
I have never found it to be a substitue for anything.
It is what it is, and I think it's cool.
Click to expand...

I agree, well said.
 
Hi Thom,

Saw Tracey at the bottom and thought that was you.

I wasn't saying that you buy my knives.

I was saying that Collectors, buy what I sell.

As such it behooves me from at least a business perspective to be sensitive to what the market is looking for.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Well, I was gonna sit on the sidelines on this, but since I do own a GBone handled folder, and a lot of Mammoth Ivory... I'll throw my two bits in...

I don't care for the feel of GB - it's cold and slicker'n something on a brass handrail when wet... Mammoth Ivory, as any other Ivory, actually warms to the touch. Yes, it might be so polished that it, too, is slick when wet, but I'm not likely to use my Ivory under the same conditions as I would one w/GB, purely for aesthic and collectible reasons.

Yes, the gaudy dyed GB is horrendous, and I'm more impressed with what nature has done to ancient mammoth, and some bone, for that matter - human attempts by dying bone are such a pale shadow IMHO... If you're going to use GB, leave it as natural as possible! :D

But on the other hand, GB, as has been said, is denser and better for hard use. But like I said, it's cold to the touch and slippery - so I'll stay w/wood, mammoth or, okay, I'm not a fan, but Stag is good at times, even for me... :D

For me to buy another GB handled knife, it would have to be of exceptional design, and of a style that goes directly to the core of my aesthetic values...

PS: For Les : I love Mokume for bolsters! :D
 
I have found using GB as a knife handle to be a risky proposition. It costs about the same as desert ironwood or stabalized wood that carries less risk. As others have mentioned, it can come in some rather bizarre colors and sometimes what you end up with as a handle is not what you expected. You have to know who did the dying and stabalizing. The first time I used GB, it came out fine; the next time it came out looking like sh..! If the dye does not take uniformly, you can end up with two scales that have little uniformity. That said, I also don't like most of the dyed stabalized woods.

Until I read this thread, I did not realize that GB was viewed by many with such disfavor. Personally, I like it better than stag when it comes out uniform and is not dyed some garrish color.

Paul
 
Hi David,

I didn't think that you were saying I was part of some evil plot to do away with G-Bone.

Nacci, agrees with Karl Anderson that he likes G-Bone.

With regards to the ABS makers, there are only about a dozen "trend" setters. All of them know better than to use G-Bone. LOL

Could a group of makers create a "demand" for G-Bone, probably not. Primarily because of how it is now viewed by collectors.

Perhaps Camel Bone will be the next "Must Have" material. Now may be the time to get in on the ground floor of the Camel Bone Market. :D

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
I wonder if the distaste comes from the inconsistency of its appearance, and at times looking like walrus ivory, stag etc.. "Bone-stag" essentially.

Does Case Cutlery use giraffe bone? ..seems like it could be huge on the Production market. Priced cheap, dyed to various preferences, extremely durable!
David
 
My reason for not liking GB is that I find it ugly. I am also turned off by the fact that it is died unnaturally. That is not only ugly to me, but makes it seem fake.

I own a Crawford folder that carry all the time and I actually selected some GB for it. This is because its cheap and I wont care if I destroy it. I don't care for the looks of it. I have dropped the knife several times and the GB is cracked. Good thing its not ivory.
 
Golly gee, I didn't know I was trying to start an argument for or against
G-bone, all I did was ask an educated question looking for an educated answer as to why it was so unpopular among collectors.
Then I get told I need to go to Africa, :confused:. I'd sure like to go to Africa, I'd bring a great big box of G-bone home just for Les. :D:D

Bill
 
Does lack of consumer interest really have to have a rational reason?

I find this whole debate strange- Successful manufacturers make what the consumer wants to buy. Did I read the thread wrong or are most of the advocates of GB Knife Makers? I’ve seen in other threads where some knife makers were indignant that people didn’t buy what they made. If you want to be an individual and do your own thing fine but don’t get an attitude when people don’t buy what you enjoy making. Try making what people want to buy.


Mitch
 
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