glad most knifemakers share!

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johnferrante

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I am a budding knifemaker and viturally all the knifemakers I have approached have bent over backwards to share and help me with learning. Recently I contacted a knifemaker that posts on youtube and asked him how he determined the placement of his tool rest on his grinder, etc. He responded with this:

"Good morning John...
I have had to figure it all out by trial and error. That's the fun/challenge of being a knifemaker. I have spent hundreds (thousands actually) of hours perfecting my craft and finding out what works best for me, where to set the tooling, make the blocks, and I have enjoyed every minute... I would feel bad if I were to rob someone else of that same enjoyment of discovery by telling them all my secrets...

-MM"​

Please tell me if I was out of line by asking these questions. are these things secrets?

john
 
Not really any big secrets, but in a way this guy was right , what works for him may not work for you. Trial and error is a big part of knife making you have to get what works for you. I struggled for years getting my grinds down so i was happy with them , the bubble jig helpe me a lot on getting the feel for the proper angles , now i rarely use it, but it was a aide in my time of need. I have leaned a lot from the guys here, but it still comes down to trial and error. The basics are all over the net but you just have to do what feels right to you. As for the tool rest, I think most use it only for a guide, and dont use it other then for a rest for there hand, practice freehanding it and you will get the hang of it. Just go slow and most mistakes can be ground out,
 
I think the response was appropriate. The way I do things is not the same as anyone else, in part of because of the equipment I have and such. If you look at anything that someone does that is really good at it, there is a lot they're doing that they may not even be able to explain or know they're doing until you ask. It's these kinds of details that make learning something a personal endeavor. If you need help figuring angles, I or most here can help you. If you need to know what angle to use, that in part is up to you to determine based on what you want your knife to do. These things will change, and there is no set of parameters that will work for your knifemaking lifetime. I used to grind fairly thick bevels, now I go about half or thinner, but my knives are pretty specific in their use, and ugly as sin. You won't see them for sale here. You learn as you go, and make changes based upon that.
 
You weren't out of line for asking. On the other hand, no one's obligated to share their particular tricks and tips, either.
 
I don't think it's out of line... neither was asking. What's the worst he could do, deny you the knowledge? Well, that's what happened- and ya gotta be able to shrug that off if it's done politely.

Honestly, tool rest placement is elementary enough that I'm surprised he acted like it was his trade secret... but, it is correct that you are probably best off figuring that out at your own grinder or with another maker in person.

I will occasionally ask another maker how they have accomplished a given thing, sometimes the reply is exhaustive, sometimes it's a couple clues, sometimes I get no response at all. I'm fine with any of those options.
 
I think it was a fair response.

We don't know how many of the same type of requests this maker may have received in the last week, how his past experiences have been with other inquiries, or even how much work he may have to complete before a deadline, etc.

Despite that, you'll find great help and support here.

Mike
 
He was polite about it and he is correct. But offering some insight wouldn't have given away any secrets. You can always ask, politely. They can always answer, or not. No big deal. I asked someone once about how they got their wood finish to pop so well and got an almost identical answer, hell, could have been the same guy. You have a better chance of getting the answers you want here anyway. The people here are the best. Super talented and super generous. Besides the best teacher is experience. I've tried things others have suggested and that worked great for THEM but was unhappy with the results when I tried the technique. So I develop my own techniques that work for ME, like we all do. You will too.
 
I always liked to watch knife making videos and still do. Some guys proudly make a ten minute video with good camera skills that show their technique but I have to laugh when their knife turns out looking terrible in my opinion while others make a short video and finish it with a beautiful blade. If the blade looks outstanding then watching the technique gives a knife maker a method to try. There has always been seven ways to skin a cat. I am self taught and made a ton of mistakes including cutting my self badly with a "helicoptered" blade on a drill press. After reading Blade forums and asking for help I received dozens of solutions to my problems and now make a pretty decent knife because of it so I feel OBLIGATED to share any techniques that worked well for me. Ask your questions of the guys who post on Blade Forums next time and avail yourself of the outstanding advice of some of the best knife makers on earth...I do. Larry
 
This is the kind of thing that makes me really question whether I should bother sharing the stuff that I do.


I share a ton of what I do... most of it in fact... because I want to... but I don't think that it's an obligation.


Why do so many people feel they are OWED information from another knife maker?



You've been registered here since 2012, and this is your first post... calling out a maker because he didn't give you the answers that you think HE OWES YOU???

That's very disturbing to me.
 
I love it. Without these threads and videos I'd be at 10% of where I am now, which right around: "It looks like a knife! Sort of..."

I thank every maker out there for sharing, at what little I've learned I turn around and share to the complete beginners on forums. Sometimes my advice is bad but I'm all about sharing!

While the knivemaker you asked a question didn't share, with some of the basics there is no substitute for learning. I have hollow ground blades that where thinner a 1/4 of an inch from the edge than at the edge. I could look through them because I ground right through.

It an obvious, simple mistake, radius too small and I ground too high, but try explaining that without a video and time to make it.
 
Pretty sure was just saying half the fun is working this stuff out for yourself so have a go. I thought he was very polite. He could not have replied at all.
 
I agree with LP. I think he was trying to be humorous with his last comment about "secrets".

His main point was that some things have to be worked out for your particular setup, and will be tweaked over time. If he had refused to tell you the temperature he HTs 5160 at, then I would say he was being unkind.
 
bladsmth said:
I agree with LP. I think he was trying to be humorous with his last comment about "secrets".

His main point was that some things have to be worked out for your particular setup, and will be tweaked over time. If he had refused to tell you the temperature he HTs 5160 at, then I would say he was being unkind.
Click to expand...

I feel that it depends. As this is a mix of hobbyists and business, it gets into a mix of hobbyists sharing information vs businesses sharing trade secrets with competitors.
 
hello bandwagon..
I agree with most, he was polite in how he said it and honestly did give you an answer, try it for yourself or watch the video dozens of times and see if you can figure it out.

And until Nick pointed it out.. I wouldnt have noticed. Just be glad you are on a site with people/tradesmen who freely (usually) give out information. Try that on site where you are not a professional and you will be blasted off of it. Go on a tattooing forum for instance or even some of the car modification ones and ask some questions and see the type of answers you get.
 
NickWheeler said:
Why do so many people feel they are OWED information from another knife maker?
Click to expand...

We are a little bit a whole lot spoiled with how free and open most experienced knifemakers/bladesmiths are with their knowledge. I wouldn't know a tenth of what I do without the generosity of folks like Nick and Stacy and literally dozens of others! Fairly often, people from other trades/hobbies will come in here and comment how that just doesn't happen in most other crafts.

I also agree that it seems the maker in question was being a bit tongue-in-cheek. Relax! It's not like he told anyone to go do something rude.

So all in all, I gotta say the OP is still pretty far ahead of the game ;)
 
johnferrante said:
I am a budding knifemaker and viturally all the knifemakers I have approached have bent over backwards to share and help me with learning. Recently I contacted a knifemaker that posts on youtube and asked him how he determined the placement of his tool rest on his grinder, etc. He responded with this:

"Good morning John...
I have had to figure it all out by trial and error. That's the fun/challenge of being a knifemaker. I have spent hundreds (thousands actually) of hours perfecting my craft and finding out what works best for me, where to set the tooling, make the blocks, and I have enjoyed every minute... I would feel bad if I were to rob someone else of that same enjoyment of discovery by telling them all my secrets...

-MM"​

Please tell me if I was out of line by asking these questions. are these things secrets?

john
Click to expand...

Are you referring to hollow grinding?

If you did some research on your own, you could find a hollow grinding calculator
 
I have noticed the extreme difference in the knife making community from most others. I think part of the difference is the ABS perspective that they are educational in nature. I appreciate the openness, but in the end, there is no substitute for hands on experience. I have watched all of Nick's videos, and even though I try to emulate the techniques, my knives don't turn out like his. Each one is better than the last, but you still have to put the time in. You can follow any heat treat recipe you like, but until you test your knives, you don't know if your variables are calibrated the same as the person providing the variables.

One trend I notice is the lack of willingness to search for information. How many times does someone ask a question that is in a thread just a few lines down?
 
i couldnt agree more...
ive been ghosting these threads for quite some time now and the first thing i notice in the morning when i check shop talk is the amazing amount of questions posted that have been asked ( and answered ) a million times before...
how much more clear can stacey make it?
READ THE STICKIES!
ALL the info you could ever need is here if you just bother to search.....
 
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