Glock Perfection Perfected

sdemars said:
GLOCK is the reason for everyone today holding there handgun with their finger outside the trigger guard.
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Huh? Where'd you come up with that little gem?

That has been safety mantra for several decades. The rule to keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the intended target dates at least to Captain Ira L. Revees in his 1913 book, The A B C of Rifle, Revolver and Pistol Shooting.
 
sdemars said:
Nope never did . . . I do realize that is the procedure in the military as to finger placement & think it an excellent idea. Makes sense in a platoon where you have many men together. Regardless I have no desire to own a weapon that the safety consist of NOT PULLING THE TRIGGER . . . For a soldier or a cop I think it is a fine weapon, to the average guy who does not live with a handgun I think it is a poor choice for the typical "home defense" weapon. Please safe me the "Well when I was in the military BS" . . . Has nothing to do with the way "joe blow" handles a handgun. I spent over ten years of my life selling guns and running an indoor range & I have seen dozens of accidental discharges by idiots & yes some who should have known better.

As to you Mr. Bold Type
 My comment comes from hearing that drone from a PD Firearms Trainer I have known for over 40 years . . . And yes it is pushed very hard now days for safety, but the GLOCK was the catalyst for the push outside the military. And yes I do believe that. Did you know the GLOCK is sold in Europe WITH A SAFETY and several companies here in the states offer an after-market safety?
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Mr. Bold Type, I like that.

Yes I know of after market safetys, I also know that you are wrong, it's your Opinion that it's because of Glock, but it's not. I was shooting before Gaston ever invented a gun and that was one of the big 3/three rules of safe gun handling.

You are entitled to your opinion, however misinformed.

It always seemed odd to me that you hear people talk about Glocks not having a safety and being unsafe because of it, but never bat an eye at a double action revolver. That in concept works pretty much the same way,(as in the only safety is don't pull the trigger) and will carry one with a round in battery, and never think twice.
Glocks are as safe as the person handling them, just like all guns. Follow the rules and there won't be any problems,

I have spent a lot of time around guns and have never seen an accidental discharge, I have seen more than a few Negligent Discharges, get it right, ND, not AD.

AD implies you had no part in the gun going off or firing, it was just laying there and Boom, it went off.

ND, is how it happens, dumb#$# has his finger on the trigger when he's not suppose to and Boom, gun fires because HE PULLED the TRIGGER.
It wasn't an accident, it was negligence.

Happy Easter.
 
I'm sorry I have an opinion that differs from some. I too once drank the GLOCK KOOL-AID. It was so cool. GLOCK is in all the movies. All the gangsters carry them. They even have the special GLOCK hold where you lay the gun on it's side & sight with your knuckle. There is a real big difference in the effort to fire a double action S&W revolver to the slight tug a GLOCK needs. So I have nothing else to say. Go enjoy your KOOL-AID . . . :-)

P.S. Yesterday when entering LOWES there was some commotion near the front. They were asking a fellow who entered the store with white shorts & a KYDEX low hanging holstered GLOCK to leave. He explained to them about his God given rights to carry openly.
 
sdemars said:
I'm sorry I have an opinion that differs from some. I too once drank the GLOCK KOOL-AID. It was so cool. GLOCK is in all the movies. All the gangsters carry them. They even have the special GLOCK hold where you lay the gun on it's side & sight with your knuckle. There is a real big difference in the effort to fire a double action S&W revolver to the slight tug a GLOCK needs. So I have nothing else to say. Go enjoy your KOOL-AID . . . :-)
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:thumbdn:
 
sdemars said:
I'm sorry I have an opinion that differs from some. I too once drank the GLOCK KOOL-AID. It was so cool. GLOCK is in all the movies. All the gangsters carry them. They even have the special GLOCK hold where you lay the gun on it's side & sight with your knuckle. There is a real big difference in the effort to fire a double action S&W revolver to the slight tug a GLOCK needs. So I have nothing else to say. Go enjoy your KOOL-AID . . . :-)

P.S. Yesterday when entering LOWES there was some commotion near the front. They were asking a fellow who entered the store with white shorts & a KYDEX low hanging holstered GLOCK to leave. He explained to them about his God given rights to carry openly.
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Dang. Just out of curiosity, can you name for me any handgun that has an auto-engaging safety? Sure you can. Glock. Now, what happens with your safety aspect if you fail to engage the manually-engaged safety on whatever magical pistol you carry, and don't keep your booger picker off the trigger?

Then, why the jump to the guy in white shorts? Was it to point out that even Glock owners can dress in bad taste...or to deflect from a lack of logic?
 
sdemars said:
P.S. Yesterday when entering LOWES there was some commotion near the front. They were asking a fellow who entered the store with white shorts & a KYDEX low hanging holstered GLOCK to leave. He explained to them about his God given rights to carry openly.
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I open carry in Lowes here almost every time I enter Lowes. Lowes corporate policy is to follow the local laws of the jurisdiction each store is in. Glocks aren't for everyone, and apparently you are among those as I'm not sure I've ever seen a supposed gun enthusiast so afraid of a particular gun.

How about addressing your claim that "GLOCK is the reason for everyone today holding there handgun with their finger outside the trigger guard"?
 
I think it was the kydex with the white shorts. Everyone knows that white shorts require leather holsters.
 
It's so difficult to keep up with fashion.

And I apologize for not getting this danged predictive spelling fixed in time.
 
My experience with glock was feed jams, chunky poor ergonomics and unnatural pointing. Not perfect in the least. Every one of the problems was perfected by selling it.
 
LOWES policy is one thing . . they are "allowed" to make a store level decision to NOT ALLOW OPEN CARRY unless you are a uniformed member of a PD. . . their store, their rules . . . I spoke with a regional manager about this once when I caught flack over my concealed carry with a permit. He said LOWES is not stupid enough to make a corporate policy statement that would infuriate a large segment of their customer base. So the unwritten rule is to "ask customer to leave or store the weapon in their vehicle if displayed".

I mentioned the white shorts due to it making the KYDEX stick out like a sore thumb. Had he not been walking and acting like a GI JOE action figure riding his gun like an old western they probably would have ignored him.

If they somehow discover you are carrying concealed "leaning over" they ask you to cover better. Been there already . . .

I live in the "MURDER CAPITAL" of the USA . . . our cops do not react to things the same as other parts of the country. If you don't believe me, strap on a nice big auto and come on down to the French Quarter and I want to watch you "insist" to a New Orleans cop about your right to carry openly . . . :-)

And no, I have no intention of removing my finger from inside the trigger guard between rounds. . . you can if you wish . . .

My 2 cents . . .
 
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sdemars said:
And no, I have no intention of removing my finger from inside the trigger guard between rounds. . . you can if you wish . . .
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And what about your claim that "GLOCK is the reason for everyone today holding there handgun with their finger outside the trigger guard"?
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
My experience with glock was feed jams, chunky poor ergonomics and unnatural pointing. Not perfect in the least. Every one of the problems was perfected by selling it.
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Glocks aren't vegans; you don't feed them jams. Not even peanut butter. Shoot the stuff that has what meat has; iron, copper...and even lead if you have a taste for paint chips.
I never tried holding one in my feet, so I'll withhold comment on that. :D
 
leghog said:
And what about your claim that "GLOCK is the reason for everyone today holding there handgun with their finger outside the trigger guard"?
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My "claim" is based on what I was told by a PD Weapons trainer who I have known for over 40 years . . . He basically said "since the GLOCK has come on the scene we have to REALLY stress the "no finger inside the guard"". He said this has really become a problem since so many officers now wear gloves & there is no longer an external safety. He said to add to this there are so many snag points in a fully equipped unit that a holster has to be designed properly. I think anyone with basic understanding of mechanical devices can see this.
 
sdemars said:
My "claim" is based on what I was told by a PD Weapons trainer who I have known for over 40 years . . . He basically said "since the GLOCK has come on the scene we have to REALLY stress the "no finger inside the guard"". He said this has really become a problem since so many officers now wear gloves & there is no longer an external safety. He said to add to this there are so many snag points in a fully equipped unit that a holster has to be designed properly. I think anyone with basic understanding of mechanical devices can see this.
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Well, like everyone else, he is entitled to his opinion. Doesn't mean his opinion is right. Oddly enough, the U.S. Army units issuing glocks, whose members are even more "fully equipped" and gloved, just don't seem to have the same problems that your friend of 40 years has experienced. His department probably should have just gotten the NYPD trigger (12 lb pull --- with that and their limited training it's no wonder they shoot so many innocent bystanders while missing the perpetrator they intend on shooting). It's anyone's guess how you turned his opinion into Glock being "the reason" for keeping the finger outside the trigger guard.
 
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WTF, I have fired thousands of rounds of duty ammunition from glocks and one pistol failed because of me. Having taught hundreds of new hires to fire the glock has shown me it works and works well. It's not as accurate as a Sig 226 is but it is what it is. Please let me know if your going to be around me with your finger in the trigger guard before firing, some idiots are hard to identify.
 
rnpollard said:
The .40 is an optional caliber for the Rangers. With the amount of CQB, Close Quarters Battle, those guys are doing it isn't surprising that they are getting something with a little more stopping power than 9mm ball.
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I've read some of the "Special Ops" groups have gone back to the 1911 and the 45 ACP. Is that true ? Why don't they just make the 45 standard ?

sdemars said:
I've owned GLOCKS, but I have rid myself of them . . .

The rate for accidental discharge is high. Snags on holsters, seat belt buckles, etc., heck just handling period. GLOCK is the reason for everyone today holding there handgun with their finger outside the trigger guard. It has no safety. Yes I know it is referred to as the safest handgun in the world, but they are all safe if you keep your finger off the trigger. I know they are VERY dependable & that is why they make an excellent choice for a soldier.

I don't carry a gun for a living, I don't fondle my guns all day. I carry & keep one near when at home. So I like a safety of some sort.

My 2 cents . . .

P.S. GLOCK is a ball buster on bids, they will always come in at the bottom . . .
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That is totally ridiculous... Basic gun saftey for years has been to keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
Re: the snagging, If you wear it in a good holster, especially IWB which is how I carry, they are no more apt to snag on things than any other pistol

sdemars said:
Nope never did . . . I do realize that is the procedure in the military as to finger placement & think it an excellent idea. Makes sense in a platoon where you have many men together. Regardless I have no desire to own a weapon that the safety consist of NOT PULLING THE TRIGGER . . . For a soldier or a cop I think it is a fine weapon, to the average guy who does not live with a handgun I think it is a poor choice for the typical "home defense" weapon. Please safe me the "Well when I was in the military BS" . . . Has nothing to do with the way "joe blow" handles a handgun. I spent over ten years of my life selling guns and running an indoor range & I have seen dozens of accidental discharges by idiots & yes some who should have known better.

As to you Mr. Bold Type
 My comment comes from hearing that drone from a PD Firearms Trainer I have known for over 40 years . . . And yes it is pushed very hard now days for safety, but the GLOCK was the catalyst for the push outside the military. And yes I do believe that. Did you know the GLOCK is sold in Europe WITH A SAFETY and several companies here in the states offer an after-market safety?
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Things have changed. A lot of cops these days, aren't gun people.

sdemars said:
My "claim" is based on what I was told by a PD Weapons trainer who I have known for over 40 years . . . He basically said "since the GLOCK has come on the scene we have to REALLY stress the "no finger inside the guard"". He said this has really become a problem since so many officers now wear gloves & there is no longer an external safety. He said to add to this there are so many snag points in a fully equipped unit that a holster has to be designed properly. I think anyone with basic understanding of mechanical devices can see this.
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A proper holster is essential for ANY handgun. Not just Glocks. Although I do think it is even more important with a Glock, especially for those who don't handle, and practice with their pistols regularly...
With proper gun handling procedures, which includes keeping the finger OFF the trigger until ready to fire, they are no more or less safe, than any other handgun.

Like anything, they aren't for everyone. I absolutely love the 1911's. I've owned a pile of them over the years, and carried one for years as well. They aren't for everyone either though.
 
338375 said:
I absolutely love the 1911's. I've owned a pile of them over the years, and carried one for years as well. They aren't for everyone either though.
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Exactly why my autoloading centerfire pistols are M1911A1, P35 HiPower, and CZ75B. Single action condition 1 carry (though I'm sure that'll give sdemars a heart attack).
 
sdemars said:
LOWES policy is one thing . . they are "allowed" to make a store level decision to NOT ALLOW OPEN CARRY unless you are a uniformed member of a PD. . . their store, their rules . . . I spoke with a regional manager about this once when I caught flack over my concealed carry with a permit. He said LOWES is not stupid enough to make a corporate policy statement that would infuriate a large segment of their customer base. So the unwritten rule is to "ask customer to leave or store the weapon in their vehicle if displayed".

I mentioned the white shorts due to it making the KYDEX stick out like a sore thumb. Had he not been walking and acting like a GI JOE action figure riding his gun like an old western they probably would have ignored him.

If they somehow discover you are carrying concealed "leaning over" they ask you to cover better. Been there already . . .

I live in the "MURDER CAPITAL" of the USA . . . our cops do not react to things the same as other parts of the country. If you don't believe me, strap on a nice big auto and come on down to the French Quarter and I want to watch you "insist" to a New Orleans cop about your right to carry openly . . . :-)

And no, I have no intention of removing my finger from inside the trigger guard between rounds. . . you can if you wish . . .

My 2 cents . . .
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I open carry in Lowe's hardware at least once a week. I've never had a single person ask me to leave, cover it, or even got a second glance. I frequent 3 different stores & none have ever said a thing...
 
Bowman1911 said:
I open carry in Lowe's hardware at least once a week. I've never had a single person ask me to leave, cover it, or even got a second glance. I frequent 3 different stores & none have ever said a thing...
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But (and this may well be the single most important point), do you wear white shorts when you go?
 
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