If you have to shoot someone, you don't aim for their foot. You shoot for center mass, and keep shooting until they stop. And you'd have a hard time finding a 12mm firearm unless you carry a collectible Gyrojet rocket pistol.
Even if the fantasy of "winging" an attacker were effective outside of daydreams;(Gravely wounded attackers routinely continue their attacks) you can count the number of people in the world who are skilled enough to shoot someone in the foot during an attack purposely on your fingers & toes.
ETA: Often people who are shot or stabbed do not even feel it when it happens, especially if their adrenaline is going.
I was stabbed all the way through my calf by a bum & I walked 4 blocks before I noticed it. I thought he punched me in the leg. I only noticed it when I did because my shoe was squishing like I'd stepped in a puddle & when I looked it was full of blood.
Those are excellent points. Happened to me as well, except the injury was a deep cut at the top of my left arm and wasn't caused by a person. I suppose another possibility would be shooting him in the knee, which would definitely stop him, assuming the caliber was big enough. His foot would simply stop functioning, but then again - he's likely a cripple for life. I wouldn't mind leaving an attacker a cripple if he means harm to me, but many would throw up even at the idea. But yea, hitting that while he's running would still be hard, so I agree with just shooting him to the mass instead...
Why don't you tell us what knives you were stocking up your amazon withlist with. This might help us get a better idea of what kind of thing your into. If your looking for an inexpensive knife, I would consider the ontario rat model 1 or 2. They are not self defense knives but are good quality and reliable. Also look at the lower priced kershaw knives, the spyderco tenacious, resiliance, ambitious line, and if you want to go up to $100, look at the spyderco para military 2.
Alright, here's the list:
Gerber 06079 (first one I added - seemed cheap and bearable)
Buck Knives 110BRS (I don't like the manual here, but it's fixed, long, and seems of high quality)
Kershaw 3820 Injection 3.0 (the handle looks uncomfortable)
Kershaw Skyline (the handle looks uncomfortable and seems of low-ish quality somehow)
Kershaw 1670OLBLK (looks coated, which means it can come off and look horrid, and the handle doesn't seem too comfortable)
Kershaw 1660 (looks slippery)
Kershaw 1555TI (looks slippery and coating may come off)
Spyderco Tenacious G-10 (looks decent, not a fan of its design though - somehow looks childish, but I'm not buying a knife for its design)
Spyderco Delica 4 (looks great (except the design), but bit smallish, then again - all of the nonsense with the laws may make me reconsider; but... Read the bottom of this post - still need advice on that)
Spyderco Manix 2 G-10 (Same as Tenacious, but for some reason much costlier - makes me question if it's worth it)
Spyderco Endura 4 (Looks very neat)
Spyderco Ambitious Black G-10 (looks incredibly small, but again - may need to consider, but check the end of the post - still need advice, since it seems that the laws in Norway and Sweden go for any knife in public)
Spyderco ParaMilitary2 Black G-10 (Much costlier for some reason, but looks pretty okay, I suppose)
Spyderco Resilience Black G-10 (looks quite decent)
Benchmade Mchenry and Williams Design (looks good but the price is way too high)
Benchmade 585 Mini-Barrage Osborne Design (seems bit smallish, but same as for Delica and Ambitious - see below, also looks potentially slippery)
Benchmade 551 Griptillian Pardue Design (Assuming the handle isn't cheap plastic as it looks - looks like a great knife, except costly)
Ontario 8848 RAT (looks great, but somehow the pointy end looks somehow weirdly curved - though i don't think it's a problem, is it?)
Ontario Knives Model II (same as above)
Cold Steel 29TLC Voyager Large (same as above, but perhaps bit more love)
In my opinion, this is the most important piece of advice you have received. Until you take a list of the countries you will be visiting, and check their knife laws. as well as any additional knife laws in effect in the major metropolitan areas you will be visiting, there's not much useful you can do - everything else is dependent on that information!
Well, from what I could find, Norway doesn't have "clear" laws regarding knives. Even Norwegians say so in various forums that I could dig up. The only thing that's clear seems to be this: you have to have a legitimate reason to carry a knife and don't show it in public. Any knife. So I can't peel an apple on a bench by a shopping mall, but I can hack a tree using a machete in the woods. I spoke to a Norwegian not long ago on Skype, I said "playing with my knife" when asked what I'm up to at the beginning of the conversation. The person freaked out "you have a knife?!! What!!" and such. It was genuine. I was surprised, but from what I've read around, Norwegians are pretty sensitive to knives for some reason.
As for Denmark, I wouldn't be there long and if it means the only country with such insane knife laws, I'd be willing to leave it folded in my luggage, as I'm only "passing through." As for Norway and Sweden, it seems to apply for
any knife, so either no knife at all or something. My justifiable reason would be - I'm going to the woods. If I'm in the city, I'm on the way to the woods. Which would be true in most cases anyway, and I suppose it should be a legitimate reason. Assuming someone would
somehow notice the knife in my pocket. They don't pat down people who aren't causing trouble, and I'm not there to cause trouble.
The countries that I'd be staying in for a while would be Norway and possibly Canada and Sweden. The rest - I'd just pass through and keep the knife in the luggage if needs be.
Anyway, in short it seems like you can't show a knife in public and you have to have a legitimate reason for having it on you. No size limitations or such, either.
I can't see a stick being illegal anywhere & a heavy ironwood staff would be pretty effective in a self-defense mode. Also get a Danish legal knife. A Dane on another forum said the following:
"...denmark. The country of the second harshest knife law in the world.
The requirements
The blade length may not be more than 7cm.
You must not be able to open it with one hand.
It may not be able to be locked."
I'm not going to stay there and I'll just keep it in my luggage for the couple of days I'm there.
This thread is very indicative of the problem with weapons control laws. Knives make for poor defense, but if you can't have guns... And of course, the political powers never stop, they keep on until a butter knife or spork is illegal. Has the world forgotten the 8 to 10 inch chefs knife standard? Hardly ever see a "scary" hunting / tactical / fighting / folding / switch blade that large and pointy.
Im not a lawyer, but my understanding is it is a very bad idea in most places to intentionally shoot someone aiming for anything other than center of mass. Most of the time there is no legal definition for non-leathal or less leathal use of a fire arm. Shooting for extremities indicates reasonable doubt that you had no choice but to shoot.
The longer I'm here, the more I'm realizing that some laws are just plain illogical. I've a lot more to say about this, but I'm not going to waste my time.
By the way, speaking of check knives - they use them in the kitchen and can't carry them around the city unless it's nicely packed and he actually works as a chef. A folding knife would mean you carry it in a public place, and due to there being some people who may either be mentally unstable or go there to hurt someone, the knife laws are strict. But if someone is going there to hurt someone, chances are he doesn't care about the law in the first place, so that leaves us with mentally unstable. Which seems to be quite a few people, unfortunately... Though it also ruins things for those who are mentally stable.
Sounds like a Swiss army knife of some sort would be ideal. Bottle opener, screwdriver for the camera gear, and not going to get you arrested. Not all of them have tons of useless tools, and some of them only have a blade or two. My favorite is the alox farmer though.
Also an opinel with the locking ring removed could work as well (at least the #6 & 7). And with the opinel, you can afford to have t they be the knife you carry only in that country, and get something else more "your style" for the other counties you'll be in.
And the comment about the whistle and flashlight is actually good advice for "self defense", while still totally legal. A strobing, blindingly bright light shine in someone's eyes is quite disorientating. Plus, a good small flashlight is handy when you're traveling anyway, so it might not be a bad idea.
And I get it, many people think knives under 3in are too small. I've found though that 2.5-3in is my sweet spot for a knife. They can still have hand filling handles, take up less room in my pocket, and still cut everything I need. You may find your ok with the slightly smaller size after a bit of use (then again, maybe you won't).
Anyway, good luck with your choice and your trip
.
Alox Farmer doesn't look too bad if there is no other choice, but still... Not really what I wanted. But worth considering, assuming I have no other decent options. I guess I'll need more advice regarding this, considering that Sweden and Norway prohibits
any knife unless you have a good reason to have it, which means this would be forbidden as well... Which means there is little difference what type of knife I will buy, as long as it's small enough to not stick out to the public eye. Couldn't use any knife in public anyway, as far as I could find out about their laws.
Oh, and regarding flashlight - yea, it's not too bad if it covers a big area, but you gotta use your chance smartly and swiftly or run real fast. Otherwise, it's little help. As for the whistle, it's little help if you go out at night. My purpose would be night photography, but I wasn't planning to buy a whistle anyway.
