Golden Colorado - Production problems...

A

AG

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Jan 2, 1999
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185
They seem to make so many production mistakes...

It all started with the Original Military (remember guys ? with ATS-34) I was shocked to see a Spelling mistake on the pocket clip. Finish on the G10 was awful and again we heard something that we always hear from Spyderco golden factory - We are redesigning the knife !
we are redesigning the Viele, the Chinook, the Military, the cricket , the Gunting, the.... we are redesigning everything and meanwhile - you can't find this knife - so go look at internet dealers and look here and there - meanwhile I go around I buy another brand.

LETS ADMIT it once and for ALL !!! The Spyderco Golden Colorado factory has never been functional !!! it is packed with manufacturing problems and simply can't make enough knives fast enough for the market. they do not meet demand and are too busy redesigning - delay after delay after delay. Dealers and collectors like myself are getting fed up with this and turn to other brands that can stand behind their products and have them in stock. Luckily Spyderco still have those small workshops at Seki Japan that make most of their models, recently even they faced up reality and started production for the first time in taiwan (Salsa) - if they depended on their Golden facility they have been out of business long ago.

Think of the frustration Bram Frank, Keating and other custom makers are feeling when their spyderco custom collaboration models do not sell not because nobody likes them - but because they cannot be found in stores and are constantly out of stock !

Just think how Benchmade make most (if all) of their knives in their USA facility - without too many redesigning and supply shortages.

my 2 cents
 
You seem to be doing a lot of muck-raking lately. Is Spyderco your mission of the month?

Most of the people here are happy with Spyderco, and their products. When problems arise they're fixed. At least that's my short opinion.

Ken
 
Let's keep it to the point - I have no joy in writing this.
I really love Spyderco knives and have collect them for more than 6 years now. I highly appreciate Sal and spyderco's influence on the knife industry with its many innovations and designs.

However, we can't ignore the fact that something is going wrong with spyderco - we can all ignore it or discuss it and maybe get Sal and his people respond - maybe this will motivate a change for the better.

I am trying to focus on facts - If there is no problem then why can't charlesfmason find a Gunting ? These problems are obvious to all of us who tried to get a spyderco in the past year or so. I am sure every company has its share of production problems - but the problems spyderco are having with production are chronical, they were never solved, they keep on re-appearing with new and old models and it seems that they are getting worse, much worse, lately.
It DOES bother me, it might not bother some of you, but it bothers me and that is why I am writing about it. If you want to listen or not - that is for you to decide.

Please don't try and see me as running a personal fight against spyderco - this is not the case.
Many who participate here express similar views regarding the situation. I ask from members to speak their mind openly and freely.
 
IMHO, Spyderco is a small company. They produce a quality product at a particular price point. I think much of what you're seeing as production problems are merely glitches in the process.

For some reason in my mind, I keep comparing Spyderco to Harley Davidson. Sure, it may be a bad comparison, but bear with me. HD makes a quality product that's revered by many, loathed by some, and is hard to obtain in most cases. Rather than radically change existing models they evolve, small changes brought about because of owner input. Yeah, they do bring out new models, but, those too evolve rather than change drastically.

Spyderco is a relatively new company. 25 years isn't a long time. They've come a long way in that time and are trying to keep the loyalists happy while expanding their customer base. They don't really mimick other companies as several other manufacturers seem to do. They try something. If it works, good. If it doesn't they either change something or discontinue the model. And, I believe their production runs are relatively small. I've had very little trouble obtaining whatever model I desire, and I own most of them. Much less trouble, I might add, than I had obtaining a HD Road King Classic in white pearl. :-)

I am in business for myself, a VERY small company, and I cannot compete with larger organizations. I don't try to. Spyderco does, and I believe they're doing a fine job of it.

Ken
 
I have had no problems with the Golden factory knives vs. Seki City. To me they appear similar in quality, finish, etc. Releasing improved versions of a knife is not a "problem" but quality improvement in action.

By definition the designer knives are short runs to keep "spicyness" up, demand up, and supply somewhat fixed. This makes a good situation on the profit margin for both Sypderco and their dealers. The "shortage" of Guntings is not due to the Golden facility, but due to a marketing scheme. There is no shortage of Golden made Natives.
 
A few points:

Shortages, if they exist, are not a sign that production is poor. If this were true then most custom makers, including such names as Randall, Fowler, Reeves, Busse etc., would also have poor production. I think that most people will agree that custom makers don't put out bad knives because you have to wait for them.

Second, any new technology takes time to perfect. Spyderco seems to have two groups of knives - those that use proven designs and materials, most of which are produced overseas, and those that use new materials and designs, some of which require more precise treatment or handling to perform well. Most of these designs are produced in Golden. So comparing production in Seki and Golden is comparing apples and oranges. Were Seki to produce the more complex knives, they might meet with similar difficulties.

Also, Spyderco's commitment to improving and developing new designs is an asset, in my opinion. They are not content to stick with the same old thing, when something else might perform better. This can cause problems, but Spyderco is still willing to stand behind their product when things go awry. Many people have sent in a knife for service, and had it replaced. Most companies wouldn't have that depth of integrity. I see it like the early automobiles - the first cars had to go practically everywhere with a mechanic, because they broke frequently. Much less efficient than a good old horse and buggy. Fast forward to the future, which has few horses. Technology must be perfected, and I think Spyderco is going about it in a very responsible way.

Finally, I think it's difficult to judge how effective a production facility is from the outside. Yes, we can look at things like product defects, but someone on the inside has many more factors to examine. As a company, production facilities must be judged by economic factors as well as quality. Ultimately, one effects the other. If quality is poor it will affect sales, and if sales are poor, there won't be money to invest in quality control or R and D.

YMMV
 
Originally posted by AG
"However, we can't ignore the fact that something is going wrong with spyderco"

What are your facts to support the above statement?

"I am trying to focus on facts - If there is no problem then why can't charlesfmason find a Gunting?"

Who is charlesfmason? What is the problem with him not being able to fing a Gunting, maybe one of us can help him. Edited to add...I saw charlesfmasons post. Looks like there are places to find them thanks to the help of forum members.

"These problems are obvious to all of us who tried to get a spyderco in the past year or so."

What problems are you talking about? Please elaborate.

"the problems spyderco are having with production are chronical, they were never solved, they keep on re-appearing with new and old models and it seems that they are getting worse, much worse, lately."

Again, what problems are you talking about?
It seems like your only problem with them is not being able to find certain knives.

I read your other post about "Spyderco becoming a boring knife company." And then you post something like this which is totally fine because you seem to have an honest opinion of Spyderco being that you are a collector of six years. I think you do need to explain a little further and in more detail about your feelings, because what you posted didn't give any evidence or proof to your statement about Golden Colorado's Factory. If you have the time, can you please elaborate on this a little more.

Mike
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Isn't this post the exact same post as in this thread?

Is this the best you can do at trolling? Copying and pasting a post is pretty lame, man. It doesn't even show originality.

you can't find this knife - so go look at internet dealers and look here and there - meanwhile I go around I buy another brand.
Click to expand...

The internet dealers have the knife IN STOCK. Some knife stores have the knife IN STOCK. And you still can't find it? Are you sure the problem is with Spyderco and not with your basic inability to purchase products?

If there is no problem then why can't charlesfmason find a Gunting ?
Click to expand...

Gee, I would think he could find one after the various forumites pointed him to a wide variety of sources. Perhaps he doesn't have the same problem as you.

The Spyderco Golden Colorado factory has never been functional !!!
Click to expand...

Your reasoning here is that (1) I can't find a knife made from this factory, so (2) The factory has never been functional?

I'm sure Sal will rush to "fix" his "broken" Golden factory just for you, the man who can't buy a knife that is in stock at SO MANY different places.

I can only imagine what you would say about the various custom makers with long waits (Mayo, etc).

-- Rob
 
Originally posted by baraqyal
Isn't this post the exact same post as in this thread?

Is this the best you can do at trolling? Copying and pasting a post is pretty lame, man. It doesn't even show originality."

Now that I saw that...Unfortunately, I am beginning to agree. Maybe this question needs to be addressed. What exactly are you trying to get/gain out of your posts?
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AG,

Have you ever dealt with custom makers? There is an old joke that knife makers' time is exponentially greater than standard time. Although Spyderco is not a custom maker, I have to reiterate again that they are a very small company. Good things come to those who wait.
 
AG, Here you go again, do you forget most of us visit this forum because we feel very positive toward Spyderco Products and their Philosophy toward products and customers. We are here because we support Spyderco's efforts and enjoy their products and see value in what they stand for and produce. If you examine enough of any product you will find that not all of everything is perfect. Try throwing in a positive post once in a while to throw us off track, then we might believe you are trying to initiate some discussion that might be of benefit. The only reason we know of production delays, production changes/enhancements etc. is because we are kept up to date in an honest and open fashion here on the forums. If we use this information against Spyderco or as ammunition to complain, then I would guess that the free flow of information that is given to us will cease.
 
Second post ripping Spyderco in as many weeks. Ignore him and maybe he'll go away.

Leo G.;):p :D
 
Hi AG. In many ways you are correct. We have had a variety of problems to overcome during the past 10 years that we have been developing the Golden Factory. We are still improving.

I guess your main complaint is the availability of the Gunting? We've not heard complaints from Keating and there ARE Keatings on the shelf, so I'm guessing the Gunting is the issue?

Guntings had to be re-engineered. Up until the re-engineering, they were too difficult to build the way they were engineered. Each one was a custom built piece. At production prices, it was not possible to continue.

I believe Bram is aware of the situation and has been kept up to date. I believe if Bram is overcome with frustration, he has the option to consult with or collaborate with another manufacturer, as it is his baby. As we continue to refine and improve the processes in the Golden plant, The Gunting will also end up a better piece. The alternative is to disco the model. Is that what you are suggesting?

"However, we can't ignore the fact that something is going wrong with spyderco - we can all ignore it or discuss it and maybe get Sal and his people respond - maybe this will motivate a change for the better"

Do you really think that I am unaware of what is going on in the Golden plant? Do you really think that your comments are going to Spur me into some action that I am not doing?

This has been an ongoing battle for me. Without going into details, I can tell you that many changes have been made and many more are in the works. I am dealing with problems that have been created by a number of people that are no longer here (my choice), and I will continue to deal with them until they are solved.

sal
 
Sal, that was a very classy answer. It also provided common sense for what really is a mountain out of a molehill topic.
 
Maybe AG is looking for a plant manager job. :)

Originally posted by Sal Glesser
Do you really think that I am unaware of what is going on in the Golden plant? Do you really think that your comments are going to Spur me into some action that I am not doing?

This has been an ongoing battle for me. Without going into details, I can tell you that many changes have been made and many more are in the works. I am dealing with problems that have been created by a number of people that are no longer here (my choice), and I will continue to deal with them until they are solved.

sal
Click to expand...

I agree - very classy answer. It takes a big person to own up to their faults.

One of the best things about this forum is that I can see Spyderco cares about it's product and is striving to improve. Even if Sal didn't note that there are problems, I'm sure he and others would be still be trying to do better. It gives me confidence to do business with a company that values the product at least as much as the bottom line, maybe more. If Sal and Co. were in it for the bux, they'd be making knockoffs in China too. I think there'd be a lot fewer happy customers and a lot more quality issues then.

(edited because I forgot to type my coment after the quote)
 
Hello,
i have read this post :eek: ,and eee i must (sure,i have rude mug) add also some my comments ... :cool:

to AG:: i strongly disagree with you, because i have different view::

1) you see finished knife only, but you see not all in the back - complicated marketing, many moneys-what you must invest to new models, new machines or i-dont-know what next ...moneys-what you must invest to advertisements and etc.,etc., ...


2) i think, that Spydercos are all other, but NO boredom knives, which stayed at some "old" design,sure, im not knife expert, but show me other small factory with so many knife variations ....and sure, with same high quality....

3) I NEVER saw before, so good customer service, as Spyderco have, what i have read here or in spyderco.com forum about it, and i NEVER saw, that owner - Mr.Glesser,is so many in communication with their customers!!!, simply i never seen before ...and in the addition, i can tell, that is not easy, sometime communicate with peoples and their "problems" ...

4) Someone noticed, that he cant find some model, Gunting?, in the american shops, i doubt, perhaps you bad search !, im from Czech and im able find ALL Spyderco models in the online shops....i think, when Czech will in EU, problem will solved, when euro come - now i have different problem, what peoples from US dont know, its called problem CZK versus USD,i cant pay online, when i need USD, i must go to the bank, change, this is no problem, but i have cash USD at my table and what i have do ? I can stick cash dollars to online shop through monitor ???
But at the end, im like of it, when i have new, its bigger joy of it ...
 
I think I smell a Troll.

Regardless I want to add, if nothing else, My support for Spyderco.
I am an end user. I do not have the problems with Spyderco a dealer might have, such as the afore mentioned problems with delivery and availibility. Fact is I call my local brick and mortar and if he doesn't have it I ask him how long it will take. If I feel it's too much of a wait I go online. Bottom line, when I go looking to buy a spyderco, I get that knife. I have ALWAYS been happy with the product and I have never had to call customer service about a problem with a knife. The point is, I carry Spyderco 98% of the time, I carry them because I like the design, I like the cost, and I like the performance. End of story.

Spyderco, Sal
You have my support.
 
Kudos to Sal for a straightforward answer. I have to admit to getting annoyed with the long waits for certain highly anticipated products. Part of this is because as a handedness challenged person, and one who sometimes carries on my weak (right) side for various reasons, I only carry ambi knives. Thus, I'm locked out of some of the most desirable of Spyderco's products, such as the Military. I can hardly wait for the Paramilitary to come out, and in fact recently bought a folder from another maker in frustration.

However, It is only very rarely that you see the leader of a company personally respond to comments in web forums as Sal does so often. Three cheers for him and for Spyderco!
 
AG

I've worked in and around production machine shops for about
14 years now and would like to point out a couple of things.

It's tough enough to get a good production shop running. When you
add the precision needed for a good knife, and keep the production
level up to demand. The difficulty increases almost expontentianaly.(sp?)

I would rather wait and get a better knife later,than a 98% one now.

Bruceter
 
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