Good way to test a knife

T

thompsonblades

Joined
Dec 25, 2009
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Well, I've gotten some flack lately on other websites about how my knives don't look like they could stand up to even minimal use, so I was wondering if anybody here knew of some good ways to test a knife. I know when I sold Cutco that we would cut leather and rope, but are there any other tests I could try? (Don't give me any flak about Cutco. I got paid to go to peoples homes and cut stuff up. :p And I don't do that anymore.) I was planning on making some videos of my knives doing these tests so I could offer up some proof of their quality.
 
Brass rod test is the most basic but to me most important test to understand the geometry and the HT is fine... Other than that the tests must be related to the knife's use in my opinion. You cant test a chefs knife like a camp knife. Also you may think to send them to hardness test, it will explain a lot. If the HT is off it will be realized when the RC is very low or it is too high from the intended hardness. If your edge angle is low or the steel is too brittle or too soft it will be realized with the brass rod test. If everything looks ok, the cutting tests will tell you if your edge angle is optimal or too high...
Emre
 
hacking through a 2x4 is a good one, so is cutting (pressure only no draw) a brass rod to check for hardness, to hard and it might chip to soft a it will role.
do you ht it yourself that could make a differenc
 
I'd like to point out that *cutting* a brass rod is *not* actually what the "brass rod test" is -- Ed Caffrey explains, along with some more good info on testing knives: http://www.caffreyknives.net/testingart.htm Properly done, the brass rod test will test for proper working temper and hardness along the whole edge of a knife.
 
zerogee said:
I'd like to point out that *cutting* a brass rod is *not* actually what the "brass rod test" is -- Ed Caffrey explains, along with some more good info on testing knives: http://www.caffreyknives.net/testingart.htm Properly done, the brass rod test will test for proper working temper and hardness along the whole edge of a knife.
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Thanks. Thats exactly what I need to test. The working temper and hardness along the edge.
 
thompsonblades said:
Thanks. Thats exactly what I need to test. The working temper and hardness along the edge.
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The brass rod test will only give you an indication of the working temper. It won't tell you whether or not the rest of the knife will hold up. Again, what is the knife designed for? Got pics?
 
A standardized cutting test only works (in my opinion) if you're working with a known or to test variables. I have a test blade that I use as my baseline. When I get a new batch of steel I'll make a couple of blades similar to my test knife and then peform cutting tests using my standard processes to determine if the steel will act in a manner that I expect 1084 to act. Different knife designs should perform cutting tests differently, I expect a wharnie EDC or chef's knife to cut differently than a camp knife or chopper.

I use 1/2" sisal rope to do my cut tests.
 
IMO, a brass rod test is only applicable for knives with hollow or flat ground bevels. It can however,tell you a lot about your HT with these type of grinds.
Forget this method if you're grinding convex.

Most everyone has their own method(s) for testing the knives they make.
I prefer real world testing above most all others.

In the woods cutting kindling, brushing out an area to place a tent, cutting frozen, rock hard maple saplings when it's 10 below, etc. for my Camp Knives.
Skinning a Buck, separating a leg at the joint, etc. for my Hunters.
Skinning Beaver, Otter or Mink for my Pelters

Destruction testing, to find out just what it takes to break a tip, or chip out an edge with a specific type of grind geometry is an excellent test method and can teach you a LOT.

I really began to learn about edge geometry when I started to do this type of testing on my knives.

IMHO, I would recommend destruction testing of at least a couple knives for makers just starting out. You will be amazed at what you will learn.


:thumbup:
 
I would say that you must test the knife how it will be used. Ie a skinner..... well how many deer moose ect ect ect can it skin without a touch up. If its meant to cleave flesh and bone(like a sword for example)... same thing. Lol ok x2 the post above.
 
I took a look at your homepage/website in your bio.

Several of the knives in the pics (I'm assuming those are the knives you made and to which you refer in your first post) are made from railroad spikes. Even if you are using HC spikes, they are usually at the low end of the carbon scale for knife steel. Yes, they'll cut, but they won't withstand use the way the higher carbon steels will do.

Looking at the forge marks on the blades, and the crude welds on your axes/hawks, then I can see why people might question whether they'll stand up to use. Hammer marks that far down on a knife blade can interfere with cutting ability. The same goes for the squared bar stock it appears you wrapped and welded to a steel core on your axes/hawks. The hard square ends you left from the original bar stock will interfere with the axes/ ability to cut/chop/split as that hard shoulder will hang up on whatever is being cut. Also, if you do not have a good weld between your wrap and core, that weld is likely going to fail under heavy chopping.

Your axe handles need a LOT more finishing. The hard edges remaining from your drawknife/rasp/angle grinder (I don't know what you use) will cause blisters in a short time.
 
I agree as well the level of fit and finish needs a huge Makeover... if your ever up around Kokomo Indiana look me up! I'll be happy to show you some steps to keep your "wares" looking rustic AND functional. and do it on the cheap :D

Jason
 
I wouldn't call Watsons knives rustic. They are more just classic designs. They are well made, and well finished. I won't comment on the other.
 
LRB said:
I wouldn't call Watsons knives rustic. They are more just classic designs. They are well made, and well finished. I won't comment on the other.
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Depends on one's definition of "rustic" I suppose. I don't equate "rustic" to poorly made or poorly finished, but to fine yet obviously handmade products, made to work -- no 2000+ grit satin finishes, no mirror polished blades -- a definite lack of "the shiny" aesthetic; a use of natural materials, often in as natural a form as they can make good use of them, fitting the blade to the material as much as the material to the blade. Rustic is *not* the same as "primitive" or "neo-primitive" or whatever term they're using now -- though there is an area of overlap with some makers. There's a lot more to doing "rustic" well of course, but that's a start. Both Billy and Mudbone can and do produce blades that are as finely finished and as fancy as almost any collector could want - but that's not what I'm talking about here.
 
NStricker said:
I took a look at your homepage/website in your bio.

Several of the knives in the pics (I'm assuming those are the knives you made and to which you refer in your first post) are made from railroad spikes. Even if you are using HC spikes, they are usually at the low end of the carbon scale for knife steel. Yes, they'll cut, but they won't withstand use the way the higher carbon steels will do.

Looking at the forge marks on the blades, and the crude welds on your axes/hawks, then I can see why people might question whether they'll stand up to use. Hammer marks that far down on a knife blade can interfere with cutting ability. The same goes for the squared bar stock it appears you wrapped and welded to a steel core on your axes/hawks. The hard square ends you left from the original bar stock will interfere with the axes/ ability to cut/chop/split as that hard shoulder will hang up on whatever is being cut. Also, if you do not have a good weld between your wrap and core, that weld is likely going to fail under heavy chopping.

Your axe handles need a LOT more finishing. The hard edges remaining from your drawknife/rasp/angle grinder (I don't know what you use) will cause blisters in a short time.
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First of all, thanks for taking a look. I also want to say that this is more of a hobby for me that sometimes gives me a little extra cash.

The rail road spike knives are more for show and fun anyways.

I do want to correct a few mistakes you made. On my axes, and I've only made two, nothing is welded. Everything is pinned. The bits are held by three 3/8 inch steel pins. I beveled the holes to ensure a tight fit. Another point you made was the squared ends on the bar stock. Only on the throwing ax are the ends square, and thats because I only use it for throwing and since that was my first ax using pins, I wasn't even sure that would work, but it appears it does. I don't chop or split with it. On the camp ax, I did bevel the ends. Splits wood just fine. That ax I had no trouble testing. Spliting 6 inch logs isn't hard with it, and choping isn't bad either. My axe handles could use some work, I'll admit, but I only just recently managed to make some that are durable. Those are the first handles I made that didn't break after only minor use. But to be honest, I like the look. And to be honest, I used a bandsaw, bench grinder and disk sander to shape them.
 
Ole Billy makes nice blades, he's about 5 miles from me and he's my father in law's best friend. Billy's neighbors hate him, he's got several power hammers and stuff but they moved in next to him, not the other way around :D
 
thompsonblades said:
First of all, thanks for taking a look. I also want to say that this is more of a hobby for me that sometimes gives me a little extra cash.

The rail road spike knives are more for show and fun anyways.

I do want to correct a few mistakes you made. On my axes, and I've only made two, nothing is welded. Everything is pinned. The bits are held by three 3/8 inch steel pins. I beveled the holes to ensure a tight fit. Another point you made was the squared ends on the bar stock. Only on the throwing ax are the ends square, and thats because I only use it for throwing and since that was my first ax using pins, I wasn't even sure that would work, but it appears it does. I don't chop or split with it. On the camp ax, I did bevel the ends. Splits wood just fine. That ax I had no trouble testing. Spliting 6 inch logs isn't hard with it, and choping isn't bad either. My axe handles could use some work, I'll admit, but I only just recently managed to make some that are durable. Those are the first handles I made that didn't break after only minor use. But to be honest, I like the look. And to be honest, I used a bandsaw, bench grinder and disk sander to shape them.
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Well, the construction technique is innovative, and time will tell whether it's durable. As for my "mistakes" I can't tell what you use your axes for just by looking at them. Or your knives, for that matter. The construction is unconventional, but you seemed to be satisfied with your performance so far. What was your original question?

Just out of curiosity, what steel are you using?
 
thompsonblades said:
Well, I've gotten some flack lately on other websites about how my knives don't look like they could stand up to even minimal use, so I was wondering if anybody here knew of some good ways to test a knife. I know when I sold Cutco that we would cut leather and rope, but are there any other tests I could try? (Don't give me any flak about Cutco. I got paid to go to peoples homes and cut stuff up. :p And I don't do that anymore.) I was planning on making some videos of my knives doing these tests so I could offer up some proof of their quality.
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um yes, everyone offering some great advise. I personally really enjoy Bob Alderman stuff. I would atleast check out trackers forge ( did anyone say that ). as far as your work, i would be kinda -huh- if your prices were way up there but there not and seem most fitting, however, i would worry about the safety of the people using them. You seem confident to an extent and im glad your trying to learn more. I think the flack is cominng from persons who have been through the process you have and to be honest probably threw some of theirs in the scrap pile and kept trying to improve there tech andlook and metalurgy. Im not saying yours are inferior but maybe the just look inferior to some folks. Then it comes down to style-not everyone gonna like your style and as long as the knife cuts and is safe and will last awhile-who cares--there will be some that love your style. ..With my first hunter--4" - 01 blade i chopped right through a 22" rope knot with one swipe --150 times.lol--anyway keep truckin--marekz
 
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