Google doesn't like balisongs

Runs with Scissors:

Google does take advertising dollars for other items that are illegal in many jurisdictions. Pornography is one of them.

It's irksome that they will happily accept sponsorship for one "illegal" item, but not for another.

Their answer is blatantly false on the face of it and indicates a willingness to stifle free speech at the very least. Yes, they can stifle whatever speech they want because they are a private entity, but then they must deal with the backlash as they are now.

Pierre
 
In my opinion, I find pornography banner ads MUCH more offensive than a classy bali. Just goes to show "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".
 
Hey RD, Thanks for the response! It certainly gave a little something to consider.

I'll admit quite openly I'm quite computer ILLITERATE, so maybe I'm missing out on a few details. But it seems to me that 25,800 matches for "butterfly knives" was a long shot from being anti-knife or attempting to limit speech. Seemed to me that they just didn't want them on the front and foremost page.

I also would think that to become as big as they are, the company would be pretty open-minded about what you can find through thier engine.

Just poking around I found:

101,000 matches for Satanism
2,490,000 matches for Christianity
145,000 matches for Taoism

It seems like they'd be pretty respectful of alot of cultures and beliefs for me to find all those results.

What am I missing here?

What kind of illegal ADVERTISING pops up on thier pages?

can anyone tell me of other reports of them supporting HCI,PETA, or making donations to communist countries?

If someone can illustrate an interest in limiting freedoms I'll write them a long nasty-gram of my own, and ask everyone I meet to do the same, but I just can't bring myself to get that fired up because they don't want Balisongs on the front page advertising at thier site.


Is there some miscommunication happening between seeing advertisements and search results?

I'm posting these questions as respectfully as I can, and I hope that any responses will also addressed with mutual respect. (in other words I'm doing my best NOT to start a flame fest)

Hope everyone's weekend is a good one!
 
"In my opinion, I find pornography banner ads MUCH more offensive than a classy bali. Just goes to show "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

I personally agree quite strongly with ya' there, but I've never seen one or the other openly advertised there.

If they're showing banners for sado masochistic midget hermaphrodites or some crap like that, but they won't show a decent Balisong I'll discreetly remove my foot from my mouth and do my best to write them a long thoughtful letter, and I'll even try to be rational. (and use my Dictionary and Thesaurus too! :D )

Furthermore I'll post it here on the forums to be critiqued before sending it.

have a good 'un!
 
I understand the whole pornagraphy thing but I'm a bali-head. And I simply told them that without a retraction they have lost this customer. I have just as much a right to choose who I will not as they do to choose what they will advertise.

If I was a sado masochistic midget hermaphrodite that was into porn and they refused to advertise it then I would probably do the same.
 
I used www.ixquick.com and www.karnak.com today and was very impressed with both. Google is by no means the only game in internet searching.

Karnak is particularly impressive and you do not have to pay for the basic service. I highly suggest checking it out. (I'm still just a day or two away from signing up for the full service since it just looks really good.)

I can tell you that there were a few changes in my bookmark list today.



By the way, here's what google sent me:

Hi Chuck,

Thank you for your email and we would like to assist you. However, we will need more information regarding your concern. Could you please write us back with more detail?

We await your response.

Regards,
The Google Team



The idea that these people would support and advertise pornography and yet have the gall to turn up their noses at knifeoutlet.com just because they happen to carry the style of knife that is statistically about the least likely thing in the world to be used in a crime is just beyond me.

Good riddance.
 
Mr. Hudson,

It's not that google won't let you search for butterfly knives.

Google.com turned down knifeoutlet.com's request to purchase advertising space on google.com because among the products that knifeoutlet sells are those horribly evil butterfly knives.
 
--begin rant--

This issue w/ Google seems to be fairly straight forward to me.

I'm not clear on this, but I think that Google only has a problem w/ knifeoutlet.com's advertising balis on google, and that knife outlet could advertise their store. Then inside of kifeoutlet you could post all the Bali ads you wanted. If this is wrong someone please let me know. If google wont let knifeoutlet advertise at all because they sell butterfly knifes, thats a different problem.

If indeed Google will not permit any advertising from Knifeoutlet.com, perhaps the "Gods of Google" would be appeased if knifeoutlet's opening page was a page that made you click on "yes I am at least 18 years of age, and have checked my local laws concerning balisongs" --please read embittered sarcasm in that last statement.

I have two issues w/ this policy. MY first issue with this is that there is an EXISTING stigma in the sheeple public already. "Why do you need a knife?!?" and "Who are you going to kill with THAT thing?!?" being common questions.

Google's restriction on advertising Balisongs shouldn't increase the general public's negative perception of bali's. Chances are someone is NOT going to say, "My God Bali's are illegal in this state that state, and oh, GOOGLE wont even advertise them. Balisongs MUST be bad."

However advertising could possibly help. I found Google's advertising to be very specific relating to what you search on. Someone looking for guns is not going to see a knife ad. Someone looking for knives however, could find a bali ad. Will this help remove some of the stigma? By and large, no, it will not. But every little bit helps, dont you think?

Safety guy has a point. On one hand Google seems to be saying that they don't want to be enabler's, making it easy for people to see advertising for products that MAY be Illegal in A certain area. However running serveral searches on "questionable material" using Google returned the following advertisement results.

handgun -no ads
assault rifle -no ads
acetone -no ads
sex toy -yes ads
viagra -yes ads
prescription drugs -yes ads
alcohol -no ads
wine -no ads
wine online-yes ads
beer-no
beer online -no
(btw putting these items together could make for one WILD night!!)

Certainly some of these items that returned a yes are at least as illegal to purchase online and ship accross state lines as Balis?

Yes google has a right to refuse advertising. They even have an almost logical reason to do so. However, we as conumers, and users, have the right to not go to google, and have the right to raise a stink about there policies.

Also "Barts" statement that "Google is still the finest resource for accessing information on the internet." could also be called into question if you ask me.

oh ps. Chuck,

Glad you like ixquick and karnak. BTW Karnak will ask you to regester after a while. Most certainly was worth it to me.

TorzJohnson- NOT ONLY did Brutus stab Caesar w/ a bali, Adam actually peeled and quarted that apple w/ a bali given to him by the snake. I read it in the national enquirer so it must be true.

Mr Hudson- Google's advertising shows up as a sponsored search result.
---end rant---
Chris
 
Here's an interesting one:Purchase Contraceptives Online

Result: sponsored ads.

What's the problem? All contraceptives are illegal in Spain. Remember, the www in www.google.com stands for World Wide web. Google is now enticing their Spanish users to purchase something which is illegal.



How about: pseudoephedrine hydrochloride

Result: sponsored ads.

What's the problem? Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride is a popular over-the-counter nasal decongestant. It's the generic name for Sudafed. BUT, it's also a key ingredient to make methamphetamine, meth. To cook up a big batch of meth, I need a big bunch of pseudoephedrine hydrochloride pills. So, most retail stores limit the amount of pseudoephedrine hydrochloride products that a customer may purchase and most instruct their clerks to be on the lookout for persons buying excessive amounts. It's not hard to find a judge who will grant a search warrant based only an an unusual pattern of pseudoephedrine hydrochloride purchases. Buying it online would be the perfect way to dodge those safe-guards. Many US cities have actually passed ordinances restricting the quantity of Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride that can be sold to one customer at one time. How can google be sure that their advertizers are going to comply with all of these various laws?

Hmmm.... while they help meth cooks, I'm glad that google is keeping us safe from evil knives....



How about: Satanic Literature

Result: sponsored ads.

What's the problem? I was just reading the other day about an American city, I'm sorry that I can't remember the name, that has illegalized satanism and its trappings. It's a city ordinance. Of course, this city ordinance will not stand up in court for even one minute. The ACLU is already challenging it. But, for the moment, it is a standing, valid law and google is now advertising material that is illegal in at least one city in the US. Can google keep up with ALL of these laws of every city and every state much less every country?




Let's try one more: Art supplies.

Result: sponsored ads.

I looked at one of the sponsored ad sites and found that they sell permanent marker pens, printing ink, and spray paint.

What the problem? Many American cities restrict the sales of these items to minors in an attempt to curb graffiti and vandalism. One could argue that by taking these ads, google is helping these vandals find the supplies they need.

What, I ask you, is the difference between an art supply site that, among other things, sells spray paint, marker pens, and printing ink which are restricted in many jurisdictions in the US, and a cutlery site that happens to sell, among other things, balisong knives?

You might say, "The difference is the intent. Spray paint, while it might have criminal uses, is really sold as an art supply for artists to create art works with. Butterfly knives are just evil."

But I'll bet you a month's salary that more crimes are committed every day with spray paint that have been committed with balisong knives in the last twenty five years.

I am a balisong artist. For me, a balisong is a form of art supply. To someone who is a vandal, spray paint is a tool of crime.





As has been pointed out in this thread, everything is illegal somewhere. By accepting an ad for a knife, google is not forcing its users to buy that knife. The buyer is the one who puts out the money and makes the purchase. The seller is the one who ships the product. It is a transaction between buyer and seller and it is the responsibility of the buyer and the seller to assure that they are complying with applicable laws.

I heard just the other day that there are some 36,000 jurisdictions in the US. 36,000 sets of laws, and that's just in America.

Furthermore, the fact that I did a search for contraceptives does not mean that I'm interested in purchasing any. The fact that I did a search for pseudoephedrine hydrochloride does not mean that I'm planning to make meth. The fact that google provides search results including sponsored links only means that google is doing the task they set out to do: to provide information. What the user does with that information is the user's responsibility. It's very much like those pseudoephedrine hydrochloride pills. You can take them to relieve your cold, or you can make them into meth. That's your responsibility.
 
Excellent explanation, Chuck! And the key word is...

RESPONSIBILITY!

It's not Google's responsibility to keep US from breaking the law, although certainly they shouldn't entice anyone to do so. If Google ENDORSED an illegal product, then that might be questionable, but not doing what it's SUPPOSED TO DO: PROVIDE A SERVICE.

Of course, Goog is free not to run any ads they don't like, and we are free not to use or recommend their intolerant, hypocritical, lying-a** business...

Karl
 
Originally posted by bloodyknuckles
Also, we need to get in touch with some hotshot screen writer/director who will do an action flick with the hero using only his bali as tool & weapon. That way, people will think bali's are cool and not dangerous.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if this is generally what you mean, but in The Mummy, and Return of The Mummy, the hero (Brendan Frasier) uses a balisong in only a tool form. He does variously use guns, swords, and spears to wipe the Nile valley clean of the evils therein. But, the balisong is only a tool, if I remember correctly.

As to the whole Google issue. I believe, as many of you have already proven, that they should not ban advertising from a site simply because one of its products they find to be illegal, somewhere. At least, they shouldn't be so inconsistent when denying requests for ad space. Its a little sad. Well, maybe more than a little.
 
Blackwatch, that's exactly what we mean only more of it. The one scene in the first and two in the second mummy are nice but we need to see alot more. Why not! The movie gave us this sterotype maybe they can help us fix it.
 
At least, they shouldn't be so inconsistent when denying requests for ad space.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I don't mind google declining balisong ads if they just simply come out and say, "We don't like balisong knives and so we're not gonna accept ads for 'em."

Google is a private site and they can do what they want. But, they should be open and honest about it. This business of hiding behind, "Well balisong are illegal in some areas and we can't rig our site so that people in those areas don't see these ads," is a falsehood. If that is true, then they'd better go through all of their sponsored links and make sure that none of them sell anything that is illegal anywhere.

If google were to simply come out and admit the truth, that they decline ads for things they don't like, well then google would be admitting that google has a hidden agenda. Now, we have to ask, "What is that agenda, who controls it, and where are they going with it next?" Suddenly, we see google for what it is, not just a search engine, and not just a source of unbiased information. And we have to ask, do we really want to support that?
 
Chris:

The email from Google is cut and pasted onto the original post. They won't accept the ads because, among other things, we sell butterflies. In other words, they would accept our ads if we would drop butterflies from our website. We weren't promoting butterflies. We were just promoting the site. They looked at the site and found butterflies all by themselves.

There is no question that Google or any other advertising provider can refuse any advertising from any company. I don't argue that. My problem is that they are using this policy to try to further an agenda against a product that is legal in most parts of the U.S.

I think it is a hollow argument that they can't control where their site is seen. As an example, sex toy advertising is illegal in every muslim country so it should be declined by google just like butterflies based on that argument. So there is definitely an agenda. It's OK for them to have an agenda, I guess. I'll just move on and put my ad money and my search engine activites elsewhere. Sorry for stirring up a hornet's nest. Take care.
 
Oh boy, a big one occured to me: Radar Detectors.

The result: big sponsored ads. Buy your radar detectors here! Lowest Prices! Shop and Save.

The problem: Radar Detectors are totally illegal in several American states not to mention Canada. It's not a questionable area or a grey area of the law as balisong knives often are. They are totally illegal in several states.

And if you follow those links, you'll find that at least the two I followed sell, among their offerings, "undetectable" radar detectors, units expecially designed to evade law enforcement.



Want to go really illegal? Let's try for Radar Jammers. These are devices that actually transmit signals in an attempt to jam police radar. Because they are not licensed to transmit, they are FEDERALLY illegal in the US, illegal in all cities and all states.

The result of my google search: sponsored links selling these totally illegal devices!


A balisong knife has many practical, useful application. It could even be used to save a life in an emergency. A radar jammer has absolutely no legitimate use that I can think of. It's sole purpose is to break the law.

Gottcha google.
 
That's a good one Chuck. Unfortunately, even though you point out a lie in Google's responses, the fact that butterflies are illegal in some states isn't the reason they banned our ad. The real reason is they don't want people to have butterflies, legal or otherwise, and they are having their ad policy assist them in the effort. It did give me chuckle, though. Thanks.
 
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