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Gps ?
- Thread starter Razor
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- Oct 28, 2007
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- 931
Not sure of what the question is but if your asking how GPS's work in the woods. Then that all depends on the GPS! 
My garmin etrex H (very basic....) can get up to 10 feet accuracy in SOME woods if I stand still for awhile....
But normal its about 20-30 feet accuracy.
If you like keeping track of elevation, distance traveled, speed, ETC. then you may want to get one. I like knowing elevation!:thumbup:
My garmin etrex H (very basic....) can get up to 10 feet accuracy in SOME woods if I stand still for awhile....
But normal its about 20-30 feet accuracy.If you like keeping track of elevation, distance traveled, speed, ETC. then you may want to get one. I like knowing elevation!
:thumbup:
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2003
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- 13,182
I used to have one.
I wasn't particularly impressed on the quality or customer service of Magellan, it died young and I couldn't get it fixed.
The things I liked about it:
When I was hiking unfamiliar trails or bushwhacking I could go on backpacking forums and get the coordinates for the trail turnoffs, important scenic spots, campsites, or springs and not miss them.
Mine had your hiking speed. So assuming you knew the length of the trail you could determine if you had daylight left enough to make it to where you wanted to camp.
If you left it on you didn't have to compute your total mileage.
On trails I hiked myself then I could mark the coordinates of all the springs trail crossings and camping sites so I could pay back others or the next time I hiked them I would only have to carry the water I needed from one point to another.
But once again the greatest advantage I found was being able to hike unofficial or ambiguous trails using coordinates people provided and not get lost.
A caveat is mine was not precision. It would only get me around 20 to 30' of a specific place or feature that was marked. But usually that was enough to find it:thumbup:
We took a wrong turn on an unmarked trail this summer and wound up hiking about 7 miles to get back to our cars. We orienteered using a compass and found our way using the natural features of the land, but we would not have missed the turn if I had still had my GPS:thumbup:
I wasn't particularly impressed on the quality or customer service of Magellan, it died young and I couldn't get it fixed.
The things I liked about it:
When I was hiking unfamiliar trails or bushwhacking I could go on backpacking forums and get the coordinates for the trail turnoffs, important scenic spots, campsites, or springs and not miss them.
Mine had your hiking speed. So assuming you knew the length of the trail you could determine if you had daylight left enough to make it to where you wanted to camp.
If you left it on you didn't have to compute your total mileage.
On trails I hiked myself then I could mark the coordinates of all the springs trail crossings and camping sites so I could pay back others or the next time I hiked them I would only have to carry the water I needed from one point to another.
But once again the greatest advantage I found was being able to hike unofficial or ambiguous trails using coordinates people provided and not get lost.
A caveat is mine was not precision. It would only get me around 20 to 30' of a specific place or feature that was marked. But usually that was enough to find it:thumbup:
We took a wrong turn on an unmarked trail this summer and wound up hiking about 7 miles to get back to our cars. We orienteered using a compass and found our way using the natural features of the land, but we would not have missed the turn if I had still had my GPS:thumbup:
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2007
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- 931
THERE IS NO PERFECT GPS!
What info they do give you, is a highly educated guess, which means there's a margin for error.
just FYI
What info they do give you, is a highly educated guess, which means there's a margin for error.
just FYI
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2008
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- 916
They are great, BUT
I actually use a compass more. If I had my choice between a gps or a compass and a map, I'll take the compass every time.
That being said, carry both.
There are several models under $200 that are good. Some even have color displays. Get a GPS with a built in basemap.
My daughter picked up mine last October and said "Dad, what's wrong with your GPS? It says MAX SPEED 134 MPH and I know that isn't possible"
I had it in my back pocket on my motorcycle...Oooops!
I actually use a compass more. If I had my choice between a gps or a compass and a map, I'll take the compass every time.
That being said, carry both.
There are several models under $200 that are good. Some even have color displays. Get a GPS with a built in basemap.
My daughter picked up mine last October and said "Dad, what's wrong with your GPS? It says MAX SPEED 134 MPH and I know that isn't possible"
I had it in my back pocket on my motorcycle...Oooops!
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2007
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- 1,918
I LOVE my Garmin 60CSx! :thumbup:
I got the garmin 60cx, It works great. Gets me driving direction when i ride my motorcycle. When i go backpacking i set up points along the trail i expect to take and also mark them on the map. Turn it once in a while give it about 10 min to settle down and mark my location on the map as well.. As HD pointed it keeps you on the trail. The new units are very good and i would say do get one. Also check up the Geocaching.com site you might like as much as others on here as well as me.
Sasha
Sasha
If you're going to be in deep woods and/or steep canyons, choose a GPS that accepts an external antenna.
If recording a track file, conducting some sort of survey, or geocaching, you'll get better data and more accurate and consistent readings through the trees with an external antenna. For simply figuring out which general direction to walk back to the car, it won't really matter...
If recording a track file, conducting some sort of survey, or geocaching, you'll get better data and more accurate and consistent readings through the trees with an external antenna. For simply figuring out which general direction to walk back to the car, it won't really matter...
mckrob
Gold Member
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- Jan 15, 2007
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- 2,020
The Garmin 60cx has fast become the GPS of choice in my profession, replacing the 12, II and III as being a "professional grade" full feature GPS at a reasonable price. I'm a daily user, and I've tried most of them out there, from the $80 eTrek to the $80,000 Trimble. The Garmin in my opinion is the best one out there for the money.
In my opinion, the only real difference/innovation that matters these days between GPS units currently on the market, is the antenna... you can get a higher signal to noise ratio from a high sensitivity/high gain antenna, thus more signal in tree cover.
Just remember.... when your standard off-the-shelf single frequency GPS spits out an error number in metres or feet, depending on the GPS, this may just be an estimate or a relative error based on the last few readings, or a "best case" error estimate based on current satellite geometry. The thicker the foliage, the more multipathing and signal degradation and the higher the absolute error, a high PDOP (>=4) and low satellites (<=5) means higher error, these two numbers are much more important in judging the true quality of your GPS position than your error value
As good as GPS is, it will never be a subsitute for pace and compass navigation.
In my opinion, the only real difference/innovation that matters these days between GPS units currently on the market, is the antenna... you can get a higher signal to noise ratio from a high sensitivity/high gain antenna, thus more signal in tree cover.
Just remember.... when your standard off-the-shelf single frequency GPS spits out an error number in metres or feet, depending on the GPS, this may just be an estimate or a relative error based on the last few readings, or a "best case" error estimate based on current satellite geometry. The thicker the foliage, the more multipathing and signal degradation and the higher the absolute error, a high PDOP (>=4) and low satellites (<=5) means higher error, these two numbers are much more important in judging the true quality of your GPS position than your error value
As good as GPS is, it will never be a subsitute for pace and compass navigation.
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- Nov 2, 2007
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- 1,415
GPS's don't get a whole lot of love in this forum from what I've seen.
They definitely serve a purpose. When they work, they work well. Blood Groove's comment on a "highly educated guess" is not even close to accurate. GPS works off of satellite triangulation. The more satellites you acquire the more accurate your GPS position. You need to acquire at least 3 satellites or you cannot "tri"angulate. Any unit you buy now days will be WAAS enabled, which means it will get you within 30 feet of your actual location (including altitude). There is absolutely no guessing involved. The military uses GPS to launch attacks and airlines use it to land plants. It works!
I have used GPS in large cities, deep canyons, and in thick forests. They DO work. I don't care what anybody says. However, they are not perfect. You should also carry a map and compass, and know how to use them. When I go out in the wild my GPS is my primary navigational aide. I do have the skills to use map and compass if need be, though.
They definitely serve a purpose. When they work, they work well. Blood Groove's comment on a "highly educated guess" is not even close to accurate. GPS works off of satellite triangulation. The more satellites you acquire the more accurate your GPS position. You need to acquire at least 3 satellites or you cannot "tri"angulate. Any unit you buy now days will be WAAS enabled, which means it will get you within 30 feet of your actual location (including altitude). There is absolutely no guessing involved. The military uses GPS to launch attacks and airlines use it to land plants. It works!
I have used GPS in large cities, deep canyons, and in thick forests. They DO work. I don't care what anybody says. However, they are not perfect. You should also carry a map and compass, and know how to use them. When I go out in the wild my GPS is my primary navigational aide. I do have the skills to use map and compass if need be, though.
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- Jan 7, 2003
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- 2,373
The GPS is a great tool but should never be a total substitute for traditional map and compass navigation skills. IMO they tend to inspire overconfidence allowing a person to travel a great distance while not really paying attention to anything but the GPS in terms of navigation. As long as you don't let yourself fall into really bad habits they are great. As long as they continue working they are great. If that changes you may very well find yourself deep in the thick of it and have very little idea of where you are.
A friend of mine was using his on an elk hunt out west. They had hunted from several different camps. Towards the end of the week they were done hunting and set the GPS to take them back to camp. They walked and walked and walked following the GPS but the land just kept getting stranger and stranger. They stopped for a communal head-scratch and discovered they had set the GPS to take them to camp #1 (about 30 miles away!) when they were hunting out of camp #3. In this case the GPS was working perfectly, they just made an initial error and followed it blindly. Fortunately the GPS was still working and it gave them a corrected return route to camp #3 once they discovered their error.
These kinds of errors always seem to crop up in discussions of the GPS without comment on the failures of traditional navigation methods. In my experience the most difficult situation to navigate with map and compass is sudden heavy fog. You travel all day in clear conditions and then find yourself in pea soup towards evening, no landmarks, no visibility, etc. If you hadn't taken the time to mark your route or record your directions and travel times then you could be in serious trouble. My brother found this out the hard way bowhunting Caribou in northern Quebec. He started out in clear, but overcast conditions and then ended up returning in fog. IIRC He solved the problem by aiming off towards a large lake (via "best guess" dead reckoning) and then followed the shoreline to a place near camp where they had done some fishing. A GPS would have done him well under such circumstances.
The most common error in navigation is a failure to navigate at all. Mac
A friend of mine was using his on an elk hunt out west. They had hunted from several different camps. Towards the end of the week they were done hunting and set the GPS to take them back to camp. They walked and walked and walked following the GPS but the land just kept getting stranger and stranger. They stopped for a communal head-scratch and discovered they had set the GPS to take them to camp #1 (about 30 miles away!) when they were hunting out of camp #3. In this case the GPS was working perfectly, they just made an initial error and followed it blindly. Fortunately the GPS was still working and it gave them a corrected return route to camp #3 once they discovered their error.
These kinds of errors always seem to crop up in discussions of the GPS without comment on the failures of traditional navigation methods. In my experience the most difficult situation to navigate with map and compass is sudden heavy fog. You travel all day in clear conditions and then find yourself in pea soup towards evening, no landmarks, no visibility, etc. If you hadn't taken the time to mark your route or record your directions and travel times then you could be in serious trouble. My brother found this out the hard way bowhunting Caribou in northern Quebec. He started out in clear, but overcast conditions and then ended up returning in fog. IIRC He solved the problem by aiming off towards a large lake (via "best guess" dead reckoning) and then followed the shoreline to a place near camp where they had done some fishing. A GPS would have done him well under such circumstances.
The most common error in navigation is a failure to navigate at all. Mac
Last edited:
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- Sep 22, 2003
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I'm no expert in surveying, but I did have Surveying 1 and 2 in College (of course that was long before GPS)
For me on an unfamiliar trail on uneven terrain trying to find a turnoff by using pacing and a compass is difficult.
For instance I have hiked with 2 people with pedometers who were fairly meticulous about setting them up and I found they were WAY off on the total mileage.
One time I was hiking with a friend on an unfamiliar trail. We got to a trail junction and he argued to me that it could not be the turnoff because we had overshot the trail we wanted to turn off on by over a mile according to his pedometer. I didn't have a GPS so we hiked back clear to the beginning of the trail which was over a mile, TWICE till we determined that indeed it WAS the turnoff
With the GPS it will generally accurately put me within FEET not parts of a MILE as far as the location.
Like I said about 2 years ago mine died and I haven't got another. For me w/o the GPS I find a compass keeps me going in the right direction. I don't rely on pacing too inaccurate and instead I just study the topo and try to place myself and find the turnoffs by determining where I am using streams or hollows or hills and at what place on the contour I am and the trail is supposed to turn off.
can those of you who have External anntenas (for GARMIN) run me thru on choosing one, setting up and using it? IE could i mount it on the top of my pack etc etc.
most of where i hike is deep gullies and HEAVY overhead canopy (big arse douglas firs and cedars)
most of where i hike is deep gullies and HEAVY overhead canopy (big arse douglas firs and cedars)
I just got a Lowrance iFinder Go2. It was the best bang for the buck GPS I could find. It has a world-basemap, meaning it has all the main streets, small cities (not villages) and lakes in it, as well as all coast-lines. AFAIK it was meant to be an emergency GPS for ships. But it works perfectly on land, too. It also has a high sensivity chip, like the Garmin etrexH.
It constantly keeps track of where you're going and can take you back wherever you come from. You can also make countless waypoints, a home point and a very neat feature is the "man over board"-function. By pressing two buttons, it saves the coordinates and immediately leads you back to this point.
For just 70 I couldn't find anything that's even close to this GPS. The Garmin would have been more expensive and I didn't like it's form or features.
For the survival-nuts among us (like me): This is exactly the GPS you want to have with you, when your plane crashes anywhere on the planet. It's not just the world map, but the runtime of up to 40-60 hours.
It constantly keeps track of where you're going and can take you back wherever you come from. You can also make countless waypoints, a home point and a very neat feature is the "man over board"-function. By pressing two buttons, it saves the coordinates and immediately leads you back to this point.
For just 70 I couldn't find anything that's even close to this GPS. The Garmin would have been more expensive and I didn't like it's form or features.
For the survival-nuts among us (like me): This is exactly the GPS you want to have with you, when your plane crashes anywhere on the planet. It's not just the world map, but the runtime of up to 40-60 hours.
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- Dec 16, 2008
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Hey DocArnie, That's the exact same unit I have. Cost me $90
It is just as accurate as my buddies $500 unit, just not as sophisticated. The only thing I do not like is the screen size is too small. I could evenlive with that if the FONT changed larger as you zoomed in, but it doesn't. Low light and tired eyes make it hard to use in less than optimal conditions. Some people complain that these lock up a lot. Mine has done it twice in the year that I have had it, but a reboot fixes it and you don't lose data. (Hold page key Down while powering up.)
It is just as accurate as my buddies $500 unit, just not as sophisticated. The only thing I do not like is the screen size is too small. I could evenlive with that if the FONT changed larger as you zoomed in, but it doesn't. Low light and tired eyes make it hard to use in less than optimal conditions. Some people complain that these lock up a lot. Mine has done it twice in the year that I have had it, but a reboot fixes it and you don't lose data. (Hold page key Down while powering up.)
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- Feb 8, 2000
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- 617
I also use a Garmin Etrex (can't remember which model right now - Etrex Map IIRC) with some mixed results. That's not to say it isn't good, because it is - just sometimes the waypoints are more "right on" than other times. But that's a common issue that can plague any GPS depending on weather, signal, WAAS capability, etc.
I use a Garmin (an older GPSMAP76S) and sometimes use an external antenna. Yes, you can mount the antenna on your pack, motorcycle saddlebags, car roof, or anywhere you need it. Mine is magnetic, or you can screw it down, or simply let it dangle.
The biggest shopping tip I can pass along regarding GPS accessories, don't buy the Garmin-brand items. Sure, they work just fine but they're usually overpriced. Instead, I shop from here and buy the "Gilsson" brand stuff. Very good quality, and a fraction the cost of Garmin's.
www.gpsgeeks.com
You can browse products by category, or find all of the available accessories for your particular GPS model.