Great eastern cutlery

[Rich S]

I've just given up on GEC altogether.
Rich

 

[The Mastiff]

I haven't given up on GEC but I haven't seen anything I wanted to order for a couple years. When was the last time they made a lockback model? I really liked the nice wood lockback models . I still have a couple 72's, a 99, and a couple more. They sure made some beautiful knives in wood like Ebony, Blackwood, Cocobolo, etc. They were difficult to get even back then but not it does seem worse.

 

[midnight flyer]

I think the truth is that a lot of the more successful knife companies like GEC, Hinderer and others intentionally limit the supply to keep the demand and prices up... they have every right to do that.

Couldn't agree more! It is called "creating and controlling your market". This business model for GEC has been around at least as long as I have been around here (10 years?) but they have now perfected it. COVID may have contributed, but again, GEC has mastered the art of leaving the audience begging for more.

Several knife makers in the past have used this technique to great advantage. I have seen posts here where folks breathlessly report that after 3 years, their knife is finally in the production schedule. Maybe delivery in 6 months!

I have a friend that makes custom furniture. One of the few people that can actually make a full time living out of it and support his family as well. He uses that same business model, he keeps his clients on the hook waiting for more, and makes sure many of them know each other by asking that his work be available for viewing once in a house. His clients love it. But he teases them with pricing, scheduling, and updates that I am surprised that he doesn't have a support group (GEC has theirs here) for his clients.

Like GEC, he couldn't sustain that business strategy if he didn't deliver the product, but they are positioned to exploit that method to the fullest and both seem to do it quite well.

Like others here, too many other fish in the sea for me. I am now drawn more to some of the vintage knives that I run across and would rather have. I love the old CASE 4" stockman knives, the CASE barlows, and so many of the old German/Solingen made brands. I am too old and too disinterested to wait for something like a luxury item, something I don't need, and probably in truth won't use. BTW, if any you have a chance to see them in person before you buy, I have seen some gorgeous CASE knives recently. Great fit, great finish, great operation and pretty well ground. Certainly as nice as some of the GECs.

Robert

 

[Tyson A Wright]

Yeah its ridiculous. Scalpers and flippers get the ones that the hardcore collectors dont snatch up and it really sucks. Its made even worse since GEC only makes a tiny amount of knives to keep the collector market happy.

They could expand their production to fix this but they don’t because it keeps demand sky high. I’ve given up on buying anymore GEC. They pander to collectors like no other brand I know of. Near impossible to find the model you want, most of us have to sift through what’s left after the collectors buy 3 of each knife 2 seconds after it drops.

I think the truth is that a lot of the more successful knife companies like GEC, Hinderer and others intentionally limit the supply to keep the demand and prices up... they have every right to do that.

So you all think GEC's business plan looks like this:
Step 1: intentionally make and sell less of the product than the market clearly could bear
Step 2: intentionally sell the products at a retail price that's a fraction of their immediate resale value
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: Profit!

I'm pretty sure that if they could double production, they could still sell all of it. And then their profits would double! But doubling production isn't some magic trick - it's actually really hard to scale manufacturing for something that requires this much skilled labor. I guess they could shop it out to China, but that doesn't seem to be their style or interest, and it would probably kill the brand.

Or they could sell the amount they make now for double, and it would probably still all sell. And then their profits would double! But that's taking a big risk that the current demand isn't just a bubble. If it is, doubling the price would probably kill the brand.

But thinking that they are limiting both production and prices because this is some plot really makes zero sense.

-Tyson

 

[Norcaldude]

I think the truth is that a lot of the more successful knife companies like GEC, Hinderer and others intentionally limit the supply to keep the demand and prices up.

You say you think this, maybe you can lay out your thought process on how you got from point A to point B here.

You know GEC doesn't get a percentage when one of the knives they sold to one of their dealers for $50 gets sold on the secondary for $250, right?

 

[eisman]

They pander to collectors like no other brand I know of.

Which makes you wonder about Case; supposedly the most collected pocketknives. The primary difference being GEC sells fewer knives, with better quality, and in a better variety of patterns.

The fact is that the very limited runs do build value, especially as more people become interested in acquiring the product with no comparable increase in production. The fact that GEC has said they will no longer offer SFO's is also going to impact sales.

I have a number of their knives. There are some I would like to have acquired that I will have to chase on the secondary market. But like many here I cannot respond to dealers offers in the time it takes for them to sell out, and I have no intention of trying to do so. This is not that hard for me, as there are plenty of alternative places that will take my funds.

If you think an item costs too much, then you don't really want it.

 

[rje58]

So you all think GEC's business plan looks like this:
Step 1: intentionally make and sell less of the product than the market clearly could bear
Step 2: intentionally sell the products at a retail price that's a fraction of their immediate resale value
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: Profit!

But thinking that they are limiting both production and prices because this is some plot really makes zero sense.

Well, we certainly agree on one thing. A business "plan" like the one you described in your post makes zero sense!

What I said in my previous post doesn't follow what your "zero sense business plan" post stated. My post was very concise and to the point, and I stand by it. And it's not like GEC is the only one. I mentioned Hinderer, and there are plenty of others. There's nothing devious or bad about creating and ensuring demand by limiting the supply of one's product.

"Flooding the market" is another "zero sense" business plan, as long as you're identifying them, add that one to your list.

Very simple economic concept. The lower the supply, the greater the demand. The higher the supply, the more demand is fulfilled and the lower subsequent demand. It's not rocket science, it's Economics 101.

In the above paragraph, the word "future" or "ongoing" can be substituted for "subsequent", if you prefer.

You say you think this, maybe you can lay out your thought process on how you got from point A to point B here.

You know GEC doesn't get a percentage when one of the knives they sold to one of their dealers for $50 gets sold on the secondary for $250, right?

Norcaldude , this post is my answer to your question as well, although the part about "zero sense business plan" does not apply to your question.

 

[Silvanus]

It’s not just GEC that this is happening to. Look at Protech, Strider, TRM, and others. They drop a few hundred knives at at time and they are gone in seconds. It’s the way of the knife world these days unless you are a company like ZT or Spyderco that can handle massive demand. Even then, sprint runs of Spydercos crash sites regularly.

Let’s leave the politics out of this going forward with what I’m about to say

I personally love Strider knives. He does a run of a few hundred production knives and they are snatched up in seconds, only to be found on sites like AZCK for double or triple the price or more ($1000-$1500 for a $500 knife). It makes it exhausting and expensive to get ahold of even the bare bones models. I’ve been lucky a few times but more often than not I’m paying close to 100% markup. Hinderer was like this in the early 2010’s. I definitely paid $650 for a standard XM-18 and even $900 for a first run Eklipse. Now that Hinderer ramped up production they still sell out of knives but at least they are much easier to get ahold of. It would take a long time for the market to be saturated enough to dip sales numbers, especially with the enthusiast and collectors like us constantly buying multiple of the same knife in different colors.

The fact of the matter is that these days if you like smaller boutique brands you really have to dedicate time and energy to constantly refreshing pages, scouring auction sites and forum exchanges, and hoping you are in the right place at the right time.

 

[Norcaldude]

Norcaldude , this post is my answer to your question as well, although the part about "zero sense business plan" does not apply to your question.

No, it's not a real answer. It's just you trying to sound smart. Everybody here knows how supply and demand works.

With the latest release of Barlows from GEC, they were charging distributors about $50 (per a post from one of those dealers). They have about 30 employees and can produce about 120 knives a day.

Using those numbers and margins, explain to me how making fewer knives is better for their company.

 

[rje58]

No, it's not a real answer. It's just you trying to sound smart.

I don't appreciate you're "telling me" what I was trying to do, in a condescending manner. I was trying to respond to your question - nothing more and nothing less. Common courtesy is appreciated.

With the latest release of Barlows from GEC, they were charging distributors about $50 (per a post from one of those dealers). They have about 30 employees and can produce about 120 knives a day.

Using those numbers and margins, explain to me how making fewer knives is better for their company.

I never said "making fewer knives is better for their company". You keep trying to put words into my keyboard.

It would seem to me that a small company with 30 employees (number you supplied, I don't have personal knowledge) and limited production capability that is selling their product as fast as they can produce it is a great place to be! I don't recommend that they expand - I never have. I don't have enough information to know what is best for them, and I don't pretend to.

GEC has apparently chosen not to expand - at least not yet - thereby limiting the supply of their products. They seem to be very successful - good for them! I wish them much continued success. God knows we need successful U.S. manufacturing!

What I am saying is that many companies find it in their best interest NOT to produce larger quantities of product than they currently do - for whatever reason - and that the basic laws of economics, such as supply and demand, often work in their favor.

Another way this works in their favor is by building a strong network of GEC dealers who profit from their sales. This prevents GEC from being dependent on large companies like Amazon, or 'middle men' distributors, who can dictate the terms to manufacturers, often to the detriment of small companies.

If you have a problem with this, please explain to me what it is, and we can discuss it.

 

[Murphjd25]

Ridiculous yes, I moved on from GECs to Microtechs I don’t have any intentions to buy anymore GECs as it is anyways, be unattainable or obtainable.

 

[Norcaldude]

in a condescending manner.

Ever hear the one about the pot calling the kettle black?

and we can discuss it.

Nah. You're an annoying person. I'm going back to ignoring you.

 

[Lesknife]

Business plan or not they’ve lost mine.

I do like some of the patterns they made and I managed to get a 29 whittler last year and a 23 beaver tail for a decent price.

Maybe they will make fewer and fewer each run till finally they make none. Now how much are you willing to pay for a knife they used to make?

I don’t care how well they can make a knife or the fit and finish, blade centering, snappy, nice jigging, patina or the walk and talk. Most of that is vanity and doesn’t effect the performance of the knife if it’s not perfectly done. As I said earlier, they can’t even make a stainless blade anymore let alone an upgrade steel and 1095 isn’t upgrade steel. I sure ain’t gonna pay inflated prices for ordinary steel. I’ll let the thousands of others search, fight and pay premium + prices for a few hundred knives or less.

 

[Zookie]

It’s so funny you posted this because yesterday I thought to myself “you know, I should buy myself a GEC and try some traditionals out” and wow was I smacked with reality. It’s funny cause 5 years ago they were easy to get on GPknives. I should’ve bought some when I had the chance.

 

[knarfeng]

I was wondering if I’m the only person that can’t seem to get on line to the dealers of Great eastern cutlery no matter how hard I try because I am elderly I have a hard time figuring out the computers but I’m also a collector of pocket knives and have been for years occasionally I’ve been lucky enough to to buy some from of these dealers in some of them are truly good dealers today the Barlow came out or was released and I’ve seen prices as low as $78 but I also see them now on eBay for his highest $300 and I think the reason that they can go up to $300 it’s just that great eastern cutlery doesn’t make enough knives of one kind to suit the collectors seems that maybe if they could come up with a way that we could order a Knife from great eastern cutlery and make that many knives as they have orders that would create a new job for somebody that needs a job in that area taking orders and ship in pocket knives and everybody would be happy and they wouldn’t have to make an over abundance of these particular pocket knives because we only have a week to call in an order that particular pocket knife. And then we wouldn’t have to buy these pocket knives at a 300 percent or more inflated price. Hector

Just because they have a bunch of orders does not mean they can go fill them by pushing a button. GEC already makes all the knives they can at the quality level at which they have chosen to build.
They use a lot of traditional methods. They use a lot of traditional materials. The workers have to be highly skilled in order to produce the product at the desired quality level. It takes years of experience to build that skill level. They cannot just go out and hire a load of people. And that does not even consider problems due to the "virus of unknown origin".

They are in the position of supplying a product for which demand is greater than the number of knives they can make. But they won't increase quantity at the cost of making a lower quality product. And I will not fault them for that.

 

[Pilsner]

Just because they have a bunch of orders does not mean they can go fill them by pushing a button. GEC already makes all the knives they can at the quality level at which they have chosen to build.
They use a lot of traditional methods. They use a lot of traditional materials. The workers have to be highly skilled in order to produce the product at the desired quality level. It takes years of experience to build that skill level. They cannot just go out and hire a load of people. And that does not even consider problems due to the "virus of unknown origin".

They are in the position of supplying a product for which demand is greater than the number of knives they can make. But they won't increase quantity at the cost of making a lower quality product. And I will not fault them for that.

Yes. I have no dog in this fight but this is very sound reasoning. It has struck me, while observing the furore, that the “virus of unknown origin” has led to a lot of people with disposable income trawling the internet and looking for new hobbies. I can’t imagine that knives are somehow exempt.

We had promised our daughter a sewing machine for her birthday. Then the pandemic hit. It was a real struggle to find one available anywhere on the World Wide Web at one point. We ended up having to spend well over the odds. I do wonder if that is a factor?

 

[Tyson A Wright]

....Very simple economic concept. The lower the supply, the greater the demand. The higher the supply, the more demand is fulfilled and the lower subsequent demand. It's not rocket science, it's Economics 101...

That's a misapplication, though. GEC isn't the only supplier of knives, and isn't anywhere near to meeting demand for knives. In this very thread people are talking about not bothering with GEC anymore because there are too many other options that aren't as stressful. You claimed that GEC is intentionally keeping supply limited, and my point is that they could easily sell twice as many of their knives at the same price, since demand is so high. Your argument doesn't make any sense. A brand may work on 'exclusivity' to drive prices up, but GEC isn't the one benefiting from the current high prices (the flippers are the beneficiaries). So my whole point is: the argument that GEC is intentionally limiting things simply doesn't match up to the known facts.

Quite often in life you don't need a conspiracy theory to explain things. It may be fun, but they rarely actually make sense if you actually compare them to the facts.

-Tyson

 

[rje58]

That's a misapplication, though. GEC isn't the only supplier of knives, and isn't anywhere near to meeting demand for knives. In this very thread people are talking about not bothering with GEC anymore because there are too many other options that aren't as stressful. You claimed that GEC is intentionally keeping supply limited, and my point is that they could easily sell twice as many of their knives at the same price, since demand is so high. Your argument doesn't make any sense. A brand may work on 'exclusivity' to drive prices up, but GEC isn't the one benefiting from the current high prices (the flippers are the beneficiaries). So my whole point is: the argument that GEC is intentionally limiting things simply doesn't match up to the known facts.

Quite often in life you don't need a conspiracy theory to explain things. It may be fun, but they rarely actually make sense if you actually compare them to the facts.

-Tyson

I apologize if I miscommunicated.

GEC isn't the only supplier of knives, you're right. But they are the only supplier of GEC knives. GEC knives are in high demand, and can't be obtained anywhere else but from GEC. There are probably many factors that go into why the supply of GEC knives is limited below the current demand.

Here is what I said:

"I think the truth is that a lot of the more successful knife companies like GEC, Hinderer and others intentionally limit the supply to keep the demand and prices up."

I said "I think the truth is...", not "THE TRUTH IS..." It's my opinion, and I presented it as opinion.

Another opinion I have is that I can't understand why people think that the only ones who benefit from a limited supply of GEC knives are scalpers and flippers? Really?

GEC benefits because their product is in high demand, they sell their products immediately without having to deal with large inventories, storage, depreciation. They also benefit from having a strong, profitable dealer network, which in today's business environment is a huge benefit, ie. not being at the mercy of the huge players like Amazon, Walmart, et al. Many collectors also benefit, that is what is also being largely overlooked in this discussion. Collectors who can get GEC knives at MRSP or below benefit from having the value of their collection increase, compared to what it would be if GEC knives were NOT in high demand.

By the way, nothing I have said is a criticism of GEC! I'm happy that they are successful - good for them! I wish we had many more successful U.S. manufacturers! I wish them nothing but success. I own at least ten GEC knives, and I have sold or traded almost that many in the past. The last GEC knife I purchased was a 62, last month!

I am opposed to scalpers and flippers, but let's not pretend that no one else benefits from a limited supply.

So, whether or not GEC is intentionally limiting the supply, they do appear to be benefitting from it.

 

[bobobama]

I was wondering if I’m the only person that can’t seem to get on line to the dealers of Great eastern cutlery no matter how hard I try because I am elderly I have a hard time figuring out the computers but I’m also a collector of pocket knives and have been for years occasionally I’ve been lucky enough to to buy some from of these dealers in some of them are truly good dealers today the Barlow came out or was released and I’ve seen prices as low as $78 but I also see them now on eBay for his highest $300 and I think the reason that they can go up to $300 it’s just that great eastern cutlery doesn’t make enough knives of one kind to suit the collectors seems that maybe if they could come up with a way that we could order a Knife from great eastern cutlery and make that many knives as they have orders that would create a new job for somebody that needs a job in that area taking orders and ship in pocket knives and everybody would be happy and they wouldn’t have to make an over abundance of these particular pocket knives because we only have a week to call in an order that particular pocket knife. And then we wouldn’t have to buy these pocket knives at a 300 percent or more inflated price. Hector

Wow! A whole paragraph and only two periods. Good job.

 

[rje58]

Wow! A whole paragraph and only two periods. Good job.

A forum member states that "I am elderly" and "I have a hard time figuring out .. computers" and this is your response? Wow is right.