Green Beret Destruction Test

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PiterM said:
Somehow I don't care... the fact that it is Green Beret's knife is the only recommendation I've ever needed.
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Yeah, I agree 100% with PiterM. I think his tests are ridiculous, and have NOTHING to do with real life.:thumbdn:
 
bulgron said:
No sarcasm here. I think it's truly fascinating that (apparently) you have to be able to pass a 90 degree bend test as a part of your journeyman test. I'm truly curious as to what this test is measuring.

Ok. My bad. Here's a link to the JS test from ABS; the test is explained there: http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ABS_JSTest.htm

And here's a link to Crucible's web site offering info on S30V, including a toughness/wear resistance graph which offers comparisons to other steels, including D2 and 154CM:

http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/dsS30Vv5.pdf?CFID=1816476&CFTOKEN=90696595

As for S30V being brittle:

"Although the longitudinal toughness for all three of these grades is about 25-28 ft. lbs., the transverse toughness of CPM S30V is four times greater than that of 440C or 154CM. These higher transverse toughness results indicate that CPM S30V is much more resistant to chipping and breaking in applications which may encounter side loading. In knifemaking, its higher transverse toughness makes CPM S30V especially good for bigger blades." --Crucible

Even the most advanced steel is only as good as it's heat treatment.

Noss, do all of your tests show pretty much the same results for S30V knives??
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bulgron said:
OK, let me try this another way.

Please tell me what your conclusion is with this test.

Are you saying that the Green Beret is an unreliable knife that will fail under normal usage?

Are you saying that the Green Beret is a reliable knife that may fail under certain abusive situations?

Are you saying that the Green Beret is a poor quality product? Is a high quality knife? That you can make no statement about the Green Beret's quality from this test?

What exactly is your conclusion with this test?



If I wanted a general-purpose outdoors knife in this format, I should/should not buy the Green Beret. Please pick one and explain your answer.
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I Chinese COLD STEEL GI TANTO is much better than american Chris Reeve Green Beret is just Shame....In the market:thumbdn:
 
sketchbag: I have never had a knife break batoning with wood. If thats all I went by doing a toughness test They would all be equal. I did have the K-bar tang bend but not a break. Considering how easy I broke the Green Beret
I would be concerned with doing a lot of long term batoning. Batoning with wood generates a lot of impact and vibration. So this is possible for a knife to fail during this. Many of the photos I have seen of broken blades were the result of
batoning.

By subjecting a blade to extreme stress and impact and having is survive. I can up the odds a knife will survive a wooden baton. This is really all the tests show.
 
tito: The only 2 S30V knives I have tested is the Strider BT and the Green Beret. The Strider BT showed it was much tougher. It's a different knife and a different maker. The Strider showed me S30V does not have to be brittle and can take impact and can be chip resistant.
 
Some may or may not choose to believe me, but to address an earlier post...
I am not a Green Beret. I am, however, the son of a Green Beret, and have spent my life around others of the same distinction.
The Green Beret knife is handed out upon graduation as a result of having the right friends and contacts, marketing the knife to the right people, and being known as a high end maker. most of the guys keep the knife at home in a box, and carry other knives with a proven history. Lots of Kabars, a lot of Busse knives, TOPS knives (good knives, but probably more due to the owner being former SF). Also Cold Steel, SOG, and Al Mar (who was also former SF) are popular. There also seems to be a small Kizlyar following. None I know carry the Chris Reeve.
 
Interesting videos.Have you ever done one of these destruction tests with 3V like Ferhmen's or a Zt0100?I'd like to see how they held up.
 
We live in a tree ,concrete, steel, glass, plastic jungle so to say a blade can only be used on wood is old thinking from a modern combat hard use knife perspective.

Just my opinion. :)
 
i would never do what noss does to the test blades. probably no one else here would.

but i find value in knowing what a blade can or cannot do. i have never bought or sold a knife based on his results, and may never. who knows?

i find it entertaining and somewhat informative.

my opinion of crk is no less than it was yesterday. it isnt noss's fault the gb performed poorly relative to other knives he has destroyed.


and ill admit, i was kinda holding my breath while watching the busse fbm test.
 
I will chime in here as one of noss's early detractors to say that he has come a long way from the dingus he first appeared. His posts are generally more reasonable and mature now.

I could care less about his tests, but I will say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with destructive testing. It is how manufacturers test their wares, and is standard protocol in manufacturing tools and other products. The main difference is, most manufacturers do not release all this info to the general public. If a private individual wants to do things to knives and publish the results, more power to them.

Trying to say destructive testing is a bad thing is misguided and/or dishonest.
 
Like most people posting on this thread I would probably never use/abuse a knife as per the test done by Noss4. It's fair to say that the majority of tasks performed during the test are over the top.

The value of his tests is in the fact that every knife should (I assume they do) go through the exact same tests. This gives us a point of reference relative to each knife.

You can draw your own conclusions when two knives placed under the same loads and tasks perform differently.

With this in mind, I think the tests are valid.
 
i didnt have time to read all 4 pages here.

bottom line is this;

if you are going to make a knife and market it to the military community,particularly the SF community as the name "GREEN BERET" would imply than you better back up all that "tuff as nails" talk.

will or should the average joe ever have to use a 3 pound malet on the spine of a knife??.....NO.but is it a possibility that someone who works in the most god for saken places on earth,surrounded by heavily armed lunatics that want to kill them might have to ask his knife to do such extreme tasks.

this isnt a 3 1/2 inch blade charles may.this isnt a stiletto.these are all knives that are marketed towards the military and LEO community and they all have done a lot of talking in their adds about how tough they are.some can back it up,some cant.

as consumers and knife enthusiasts,not all but some of us are attracted to these military quality knives.thats why so many products use the term "mil-spec" to describe their product.we the people want it because we know that if those guys cant break it we sure the hell never will.

we also need to be given more credit.certain people say they are worried that we will be led astray by these tests.that we will think a great knife is a bad one because it broke during the process.

we're not idiots.every damn knife tested to date broke and every damn knife was a good one.knives are like cars,they have different designs for different uses.

we know the green baret isnt going to handle like a battle mistres.doesnt mean we dont wan to see it.doesnt mean we are going to say,"never buy a chris reeve,their junk".

we're big boys,we know what time it is.

its entertaining and informative.

a lot of people in the industry are scared to death noss is going to get ahold of one of their blades and hurt their business.in that case,if you make the best knife you possibly can and put quality before profit you wont have any problems.

call me crazy but in some ways i think noss is cleaning up certain parts of the industry.

and for those that say he's a bully and out to give everyone a bad name,thats ignorant.

85%-90% of the knives he has tested so far have got nothing but compliments and good promotion.good free promotion.

other people get upset that their called tests.i dont put much worth on the actual terminology.no matter what you call it,it is what it is.

i appreciate it and have found it very informative.
 
This is why theese tests are needed. The knife in the army is a weapon and A MULTI-TOOL. I've copied this at (http://www.mdtactical.com/Shannon Knives/iraq_atak.html)

"In July 2003 an Armored Hummer was hit by an RPG with 4 solders in it. One was DOA and the rest injured, but trapped in the Armored Hummer. One of the responding solders in the 6-6 Cavalry used his Mad Dog A.T.A.K. with the sheath on as a pry-bar to force the armored door open to save the surviving trapped solders. The solders name we can not disclose due to security reasons.................................."
 
bushman14 raises a good point and highlights the fact that the Green Berets he has met and talked to don't carry this knife. I think another thing to look at is that the Seals are issued their namesake knife, whereas this is a gift. I can't believe military testing would let a knife like this get through. If so does it make you wonder about any other kit that might have made it through?

I know many Royal Marines who carry FS commando daggers and tbh they are pretty much a piece of crap. Generally made of rubbish steel, can't hold an edge and the tips always break. As for it being a good fighting knife well there are many far better ones in the market now. However the guys carry them because thats part of our history and tradition. It even goes on our uniform in the form of a patch.

The Green Beret knife just seems to not add up, it has no historical value. Has not been developed by an exGreen Beret or been carried by them since their first missions. For me either this knife should be improved apon vastly to live up to it's name or should just be regarded as a token/ceremonial knife and left at that.

I for one hope that this thread is being viewed with an open mind and that the tests that Noss does are looked apon with more value and understanding. I also hope that the Green Beret knife is improved by it's makers and that it does become a worthy knife in the end.
 
I think we need to keep in mind Noss is doing destruction testing, not field testing or Green Beret testing. Bottom line is he is abusing the knife to see exactly what it will take before it fails and I for one think it's extremely valuable in a sense that if I am going to put one fixed blade in my BOB I am now going to opt for a Busse over a CRK. That being said I like the CRK knives much better in terms of knife usability, slicing and cutting, etc. and I EDC a micarta sebenza.
 
In the Blade Forum tradition, overall, posters have shown integrity, common sense and added great conversation about this destruction test. This Thread could have turned very ugly. This is one reason I enjoy BF's so much. Thank you!
 
wccl said:
This is why theese tests are needed. The knife in the army is a weapon and A MULTI-TOOL. I've copied this at (http://www.mdtactical.com/Shannon Knives/iraq_atak.html)

"In July 2003 an Armored Hummer was hit by an RPG with 4 solders in it. One was DOA and the rest injured, but trapped in the Armored Hummer. One of the responding solders in the 6-6 Cavalry used his Mad Dog A.T.A.K. with the sheath on as a pry-bar to force the armored door open to save the surviving trapped solders. The solders name we can not disclose due to security reasons.................................."
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As a completely impartial party, I find the tests exceedingly useful, unbiased, and unprecedented:D:p:D:p:D

Seriously though, whether you love or hate the work that Noss does, a quote like this just restates what we, at knivetests.com, have heard over and over again by individuals that have served in the armed forces. That "we use our knives for EVERYTHING". Hearing that a soldier's knife literally saved his life and the lives of his fellow servicemen really does leave me speechless. The man pried open the latched door of a burning vehicle and saved lives. He didn't cut a rope, or chop some wood, or even slit a throat like a knife can be expected to do. He pried open a door! That is just amazing to me.

Personally, a year ago when Noss asked me to help him with the website, my response was much like some other members of Blade Forums...why? why do this? His answer was simple, "because I've looked all over the net, and I can't find what I am looking for". Originally indifferent, I have caught the knife bug. After being amazed with some of the tests that I have been a party to, I must say that I really look forward to stepping behind the camera as Noss dons his mask to test a knife. He performs these tests because he himself is curious as to the types of punishment these knives can withstand, and he posts the videos online so others that share his interests can draw their own opinions. I don't see how anyone can really not understand why he does what he does. He says why he does it every time he posts a test. "Enjoy the videos. They were made for you".

That is just my two cents. I am glad that forums like this are out there in cyberspace because it shows me that the internet isn't only for finding out how Britney Spears spends her afternoons...or looking at porn.:D

Take care, knife enthusiasts. Knifetest.com Cameraman
 
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