Grimsmo = lack of communication re: timeline

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Based on this and other communications issues with custom knife-makers, I'm going to stick out my neck and generalize that knife-makers, like artists, may have great creative abilities but lack the brain-wiring for meeting deadlines, keeping track of communications, and that sort of administrative detail.

Perhaps the solution is for knife-makers to have someone who is good at the administrative side of things help them out, either for pay or out of friendship.

Running a business requires different skills from those of the creative arts. Scaling up a creative business is where this divide really shows. IMO.
 
John Grimsmo said:
Thank you Mike for bringing this to my attention.

The OP paid $675 on May 21, 2015.

In short, the OP is mostly right. It's been a year and a half (not two) and we're way behind our original 6-9 month estimated delivery. He also ordered on the very first day so we appreciate his business like crazy. Opening the new shop, buying a new mill and just recently a very complex new lathe has consumed a LOT of my time and knives haven't been getting done nearly as fast as I want them to. I will typically put up 100x the effort up front to make it easier in the end, so instead of just doing it quickly the crappy way, I'll spend oodles of time figuring out how to make my parts perfectly every single time. This method works for me and the way that my brain operates, but I completely understand that it can be tough for the customer to wait longer than anticipated, at this point it's been twice as long as my max 9 month estimate. We're trying to find a balance between achieving the perfect method and just getting knives out the door. Our quality standards are so high that it's difficult to choose sometimes.

Also, I have been terrible at communication. I'll admit that, begrudgingly. I don't always have a chance to respond to e-mails right away and then they fall further and further down the list. It's something I'm very conscious of and working hard to improve, but as an entrepreneur there are constantly a million things grabbing my attention at any one time.

Rest assured, we are 10,000,000,000% committed to fulfilling every single order. That's not even in question here, of course we will. We're just freaking slow and methodical :). I have just e-mailed the OP and it's funny because his knife was already in progress and was one of the next ones we're working on finishing. He'll have it in the next few weeks, mostly subject to the outsourced DLC coating process that we still have to do and have been having problems with lately. Though I'm not blaming the DLC process for his particular knife being late, that's all on me. We'll make it right.

I don't have time these days to spend any time on this wonderful forum so I might not check back on this post. If anyone would like to contact me directly my super secret direct e-mail address is JohnGrimsmo@Gmail.com. I may be hard to get a hold of but I'm not hard to find.

Cheers!
John
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I did hear back from John today and I should have looked on here and just PM'ed him, I was unaware that he had a presence on the forum. I was just very frustrated and sorry if I wasted everyone's time blowing off steam.

As I said earlier, I was somewhat aware of what I was getting into but sometimes frustration just gets the better of me...I was never really worried about getting stiffed but I was hoping for a knife closer to the original estimated time frame and I got a little worried that the "greasy wheels" were getting their's first once I heard a few members here had gotten theirs back in Aprilish (IIRC) and I had still not heard anything after paying so early.
 
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No need to apologize brother. This is total BS and you were correct to post.
Joe
 
Locutus D'Borg said:
Based on this and other communications issues with custom knife-makers, I'm going to stick out my neck and generalize that knife-makers, like artists, may have great creative abilities but lack the brain-wiring for meeting deadlines, keeping track of communications, and that sort of administrative detail.

Perhaps the solution is for knife-makers to have someone who is good at the administrative side of things help them out, either for pay or out of friendship.

Running a business requires different skills from those of the creative arts. Scaling up a creative business is where this divide really shows. IMO.
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I would say this is true. Their brains are not wired for proper business/administration. They need a manager to get them on the right track.
 
To be honest.......when dealing with the gifted and creative......I don't think anyone can keep them on track.
 
How bout them Cubs! :encouragement: :onthego:

As for John Grimsmo: he's a class act, honest, makes very high quality knives, and I have no doubt, will get his production schedule back on track. :thumbup:
 
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palonej said:
Good point Gaston!!! I am an HVAC contractor. I work on a third up front, a third upon delivery of equipment and materials and a third on completion.........with start and completion dates.
Small jobs, under $2500, require no deposit.
I have never met a customer that would agree to pay the total before I start.
Knives should be no different.
Joe
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I'm pretty much with Joe on this. I'm a general carpentry/building contractor and the payment schedule for my work depends a lot on the scope of the job. There's always some sort of deposit, progress payments along the way, and final payment upon completion. The idea here is not to get stuck with out-of-pocket expenditures as the client basically has possession of your completed work, materials, and expenditures for subs, etc as you go.

For something like a custom knife, it makes sense to secure the cost of materials and outside work up front, perhaps with a modicum of good-faith money against the maker's own or shop labor. As the build continues, the maker has total possession of the knife, hence, with the materials and outside expenses covered, he has the value of his creation in hand to offset his labor.

Using this model, when the knife is completed the maker emails glorious pics of his creation to the buyer who Paypals the balance due to the maker. The buyer gets his knife three days later. This way, the buyer has demonstrated good faith with his deposit, the maker has his out-of-pocket expenses covered, and is also incentivized to complete the work and deliver the product. If the buyer doesn't pay, then he's the "bad guy", the maker's not out any money, and he has a marketable knife to recoup his labor.

Seems like a reasonable business model. All the money upfront? It's just too easy not to get it done.
 
Exactly Steve. Also, if you did get the total cost of the project paid up front.........where is the incentive to finish??
I know, either you or I definitely would finish, but it would be a bitch and would not 'feel' the same.

Knife makers asking for the total up front, with a year's wait, just reeks of rip off.
 
Locutus D'Borg said:
Based on this and other communications issues with custom knife-makers, I'm going to stick out my neck and generalize that knife-makers, like artists, may have great creative abilities but lack the brain-wiring for meeting deadlines, keeping track of communications, and that sort of administrative detail.

Perhaps the solution is for knife-makers to have someone who is good at the administrative side of things help them out, either for pay or out of friendship.

Running a business requires different skills from those of the creative arts. Scaling up a creative business is where this divide really shows. IMO.
Click to expand...
You must've been talking to exactly the wrong knife makers.
 
I like his knives as much as the next person, but they really need to start banging some out. They go to various conventions and shows, pick up new machine after new machine. They need to work with what they have and get some knives out. After they start doing that, then they can focus on expanding. It isn't like they are incapable of making great knives already. They don't need new equipment for that.
 
cda555 said:
I like his knives as much as the next person, but they really need to start banging some out. They go to various conventions and shows, pick up new machine after new machine. They need to work with what they have and get some knives out. After they start doing that, then they can focus on expanding. It isn't like they are incapable of making great knives already. They don't need new equipment for that.
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Agreed with this assessment. Process optimization should have taken priority over pivoting to R&D for new product development. For a small two man operation, perfect the process and get it dialed in first to fulfill pre-existing obligations before creating another demand list for a new model.

I think the Norseman is a fantastic design. Those orders should have been near close to being fulfilled prior to expanding business and administrative operations in supporting an expansion in the product line.
 
I looked at the website, seems to have a nice product. I'm sure he's a great guy.It's just a dangerous business practice. Like others have said divorces,illness,deaths, unforeseen circumstances do commonly happen. I don't know how many orders or how much money is involved but more than likely the kick starter money is spent. That means to make those paid for knives, the money has to come from somewhere. I do hope everything works out well for both the customers and the knifemaker. May his business be very successful so he is able to get his prepaid knives to those customers.
 
If you need money to expand your business, find real investors or get a conventional bank loan. Do not take customers' money on false or inflated promises and then ignore them.

We see this all the time with custom makers. They take a bunch of customers' money up front, spend all of it (on equipment/materials/whatever), and then have no money left over to sustain themselves, yet meanwhile have 100 knives that have been paid for and haven't been made. So to make due, they start auctioning knives, sell to dealers, etc., making the delays for the original customers even worse. Then when things really start getting bad, they start taking more pre-orders. Eventually everything comes crashing down on them.
 
Yes, It's a pathway to unintentionally become a type Pyramid business situation with no way to make good on what's owed. Hopefully things work out for everyone.
 
brancron said:
We see this all the time with custom makers. They take a bunch of customers' money up front, spend all of it (on equipment/materials/whatever), and then have no money left over to sustain themselves, yet meanwhile have 100 knives that have been paid for and haven't been made.
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How many knifemakers equate to "all the time"?

Chuck
 
John Grimsmo said:
Thank you Mike for bringing this to my attention.

The OP paid $675 on May 21, 2015.

In short, the OP is mostly right. It's been a year and a half (not two) and we're way behind our original 6-9 month estimated delivery. He also ordered on the very first day so we appreciate his business like crazy. Opening the new shop, buying a new mill and just recently a very complex new lathe has consumed a LOT of my time and knives haven't been getting done nearly as fast as I want them to. I will typically put up 100x the effort up front to make it easier in the end, so instead of just doing it quickly the crappy way, I'll spend oodles of time figuring out how to make my parts perfectly every single time. This method works for me and the way that my brain operates, but I completely understand that it can be tough for the customer to wait longer than anticipated, at this point it's been twice as long as my max 9 month estimate. We're trying to find a balance between achieving the perfect method and just getting knives out the door. Our quality standards are so high that it's difficult to choose sometimes.

Also, I have been terrible at communication. I'll admit that, begrudgingly. I don't always have a chance to respond to e-mails right away and then they fall further and further down the list. It's something I'm very conscious of and working hard to improve, but as an entrepreneur there are constantly a million things grabbing my attention at any one time.

Rest assured, we are 10,000,000,000% committed to fulfilling every single order. That's not even in question here, of course we will. We're just freaking slow and methodical :). I have just e-mailed the OP and it's funny because his knife was already in progress and was one of the next ones we're working on finishing. He'll have it in the next few weeks, mostly subject to the outsourced DLC coating process that we still have to do and have been having problems with lately. Though I'm not blaming the DLC process for his particular knife being late, that's all on me. We'll make it right.

I don't have time these days to spend any time on this wonderful forum so I might not check back on this post. If anyone would like to contact me directly my super secret direct e-mail address is JohnGrimsmo@Gmail.com. I may be hard to get a hold of but I'm not hard to find.

Cheers!
John
Click to expand...

"mostly right"??
So, twice as long as originally estimated is not quite as bad as three times as long?

"begrudgingly" admit that you're bad at communications?
WTF is there begrudging about it? You are, you admitted it.

"as an entrepreneur there are constantly a million things grabbing my attention at any one time".
More important than delivering what you promised to a PAID customer?

"I have just e-mailed the OP and it's funny because his knife was already in progress and was one of the next ones we're working on finishing."
I'll bet he finds NO HUMOR in it whatsoever.
 
I unfortunately think the Grimsmo's burnt through some of their good will with collectors with this whole process. It's a bit of an albatross when instead we should be talking about how great their knives are. But poor supply/output/communication/planning is overshadowing that story. Hopefully it doesn't damage their legacy, I know they like to think big.
 
Mods, can we close this one down? I thought the OP could close a thread but have not been able to find it here or in the FAQ.

Thanks!
 
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