Grizzly Hardness Tester Problem

Yes it came with this feature:

http://www.industrialheating.com/ext/resources/Issues/January-2015/ih0115-rockwell-fixture-615.jpg

It is not my unit, but the system is the same...it fixes the penetration of the minor load stopping the anvil rise once the diamond is inserted in the specimen with the 10kgf.
As you can see, basically you lock your sample against the frame of the machine while the indeter is protruding the exact amount corresponding to the minor load. Of course you still have to watch the dial while cranking, but it is a useful foolproof fixture; consider we could flex the frame regardless the huge mass (mine weights 84 kg!!!) of the machine.
 
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Matt N said:
I have a HR150A that I got from MSC 8 or so years, ago. Seems to be fairly accurate... The manual I have has a procedure for adjusting... Remove the top cover. On the beam that runs to the dial, forward of the pivot there is a plate that has 2 screws attaching it to the beam and a threaded rod that runs up from the Indenter shaft. DO NOT adjust center indenter shaft screw or nut(manual is very clear on this!). Manual says to loosen 2 fore and aft screws and slide plate forward "a little" to increase measured value, slide rearward to decrease measured value. Tighten screws and perform another measurement, then adjust again if necessary.
Click to expand...

I think we've found my problem.... :mad:

Initially the indentor shaft screw wasn't even touching the indentor shaft. In my initial post this is what I posted about how neither of the pointers were moving on either of the dials(the large one and the small one inside of it with the "red dot"). I read the manual over and over again, went through the steps one by one to make sure I had things right, and nothing.

I tried setting up a factory testing block and pushing it up into the diamond indentor and no movement on the dial. I push it up a little more into the indentor, no movement but I do see the indentor and indentor sleeve move up. I then move the table/block down slowly and watch for any pointer movement on the dial. Nothing. I try this again and push the test block into the indentor until the indentor and indentor sleeve press up and stop. No movement. I never cranked on the table to get it to move higher, I just moved it back down and walked away, pissed off.

At no where in the Grizzly manual did it say anything about not moving the center indenter shaft screw or nut.

So finally I started moving the "small lever" behind the dial. I'm being very careful and only slightly moving it. It doesn't do anything but I can tell it's slightly moving the large pointer on the dial. Only a little bit though, as if it's through vibration. At this point I decided to loosen the nut on what I now know is the indenter shaft screw. I screw the screw downward, towards the indentor. After a few rotations I see movement in the pointers on the dials. The screw evidently was never down far enough to engage anything when the indentor was pushed up into it. I haven't had a chance to mess around with this indentor screw/nut adjustment much at this point. After trying a couple settings I realized I was getting no where and will probably have to wait to get advice with someone more knowledgeable about the machine.

Either way I'm 99% sure now the problem is with the center indenter shaft screw/nut setting is the problem. Again, the Grizzly manual doesn't say a darn thing about this area in my manual. If it did, I probably would be testing blades just fine now.

Anyone have any ideas on how to dig myself out of this hole? It would be immensely appreciated.
 
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Matt N said:
Then I believe you might be missing a nut. See the 2 attached images.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77875106/1.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77875106/2.jpg
Click to expand...

I have all the nuts/screws in those pictures. The problem is, they need to be adjusted to the proper setting. The middle pin that leads to the indentor was backed out when I got it.

Also, those are different instructions than what I got with my grizzly. I don't have that page at all.

With the Grizzly being a copy of other American models, someone some where has had to have made adjustments to these nuts/pins/bolts before. I just need to find someone who has and see how they do it.

If anyone knows anything about adjusting the parts on this area of the machine please let me know.
 
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I read through your previous post too quickly. I think I know what you are saying now. I took the lid off mine... In an unloaded state the long black beam that runs from the rear of the machine puts downward force on the indenter shaft. This in turn puts downward force on the short chrome beam that runs to the indicator dial by way of the nut on top of the indenter shaft. It seems the indicator is already "wound up" to some extent, so that when upward force is put on the indenter shaft, it allows the small chrome beam to travel vertically and "unwind" the indicator. Without actually seeing pictures of yours, I would guess that the indicator isn't properly wound. I assume this to be done by tightening the top nut on the indenter shaft. I know you've done this, but I believe you were going in the wrong direction. The nut should be tightened to move the indenter shaft in the upwards direction. In an unloaded state is the small indicator needle parallel with the large needle and does it point exactly to the black dot? It should. My manual also mentions to make sure the weight on the long black beam is in the correct position(indicated by paint marks on the beam). This would insure that there is downward force on the indenter shaft. The pages that I posted previously were part of an addendum that came with my manual.
 
Well, I just got thru adjusting my HR-150A hardness tester following the instructions on the directions in 1.jpg above. Works like a champ. In the 2.jpg photo you can see the 3 screws, the center has a lock nut, the two outside silver screws do not have lock nuts. The center screw with lock nut adjusts the pointer needle so it's directly at 12 O'clock position.

#1: note position of big needle on big dial, is it somewhere between 11 and 1 O'clock? If so, proceed to step #2. If not, use a 7mm wrench to hold lock nut on center screw, hold screw with screwdriver and loosen nut with wrench. Playing with this the needle can be adjusted easy between 11 and 1 O'clock. That's close enough for now.

#2: take the 62.2 test block and take a reading, note if reading low or high. Here I then take a 1/4" or 3/8" HSS tool bit (from lathe) and test it. Note how it reads compared to test block. Use this HSS tool steel for most of testing to save many dimples in test block. The HSS steel will read anywhere from 62 to 67 Rc depending.

#3: if reading is low, loosen the two outside silver screws and move plate forwards toward dial a small tad. If high, then move plate backward a tad. Small movement will make a fairly large difference in calibration. After tightening the two outside screws, the big needle will again need adjusting with the center screw to somewhere between 11 and 1 O'clock.

#4: test HSS steel again to see how it moved. This does take a good bit of playing around, and with calibration set at 62 Rc, I found my low end still didn't read correctly, but that's not a real problem since I only use that for testing backsprings and that reading isn't as critical as the blade - in my opinion anyway.

This procedure works for me. I'd be interested in hearing if it works for other folks.

Ken H>
 
Thanks a bunch for the response guys, I really appreciate it. I'm gonna try the above out as soon as I get home later and report back. This has been one of the most frustrating dang things to deal with.

In regards to the settings of the indentor screw, it is not at or close to the normal factory setting.

Again, thanks a bunch for the help guys, I'm lost without ya on this one. I'll report back later after I get home.
 
This "indenter screw" you're referring to - is that the middle screw with the locknut? If so, you're right, that has to be set first. Keep us informed of your progress - it does sound like it just needs some adjusting. The HA150A is a very decent unit, at at $875 shipped is a better deal than when I purchased my unit.

Ken H>
 
Ken H- yes, that's what the parts diagram refer to it as in my manual. I did set that screw so that both the small pointer and large pointer were both pointing 12 o'clock on both dials. The problem is when I move the anvil up into the indentor, until the small pointer points at the red dot, the large pointer doesn't point towards 12 o'clock. It's at around 10-11 o'clock.

I got my camera out to take a video of what's happening when I try to do the above tests/setup. Batteries crapped out. I had 15 rechargeable batteries in this damn house and none of them had a charge. They're charging now and I will put a video up of what's going on in a minute. I think this is going to be the best way for me to articulate what's happening.

Grizzly tech support called me today and I pretty much just got to be on hold for a half an hour while they read through the instructions, only to say they'll call me back tomorrow lol. I have to run and do a few things for work and will then take the video.
 
The problem is when I move the anvil up into the indentor, until the small pointer points at the red dot, the large pointer doesn't point towards 12 o'clock. It's at around 10-11 o'clock.
Click to expand...

Hey, might have found part of the problem. You start just as you said with BOTH big needle and little needle pointing at 12 O'clock position - that's with the diamond penetrator in the open not touching anything. Next slowly turn handle to raise ram until gently touching test block, then slowly continue to raise ram until the big needle approaches 3 revolutions so the little needle is right at the red dot, then slowly raise ram a tad more until until big needle is at the 12 O'clock position. At this time the little needle will be "somewhere" around the red dot, not necessarily centered on red dot - should be close.

I just checked my tester and I can move the big needle anywhere from 10 to 2 O'clock position and the little needle will be around red dot, either just shy of, or just past red dot. You can stop the big needle anywhere between the 11 and 1 O'clock position (manual says 5 marks either side of), then manually rotate the dial until the "0" lines up with the big needle.

You might have to adjust your tester some to get it all working that way - too bad you're not somewhere close {g}

Ken H>
 
Ken H> said:
Hey, might have found part of the problem. You start just as you said with BOTH big needle and little needle pointing at 12 O'clock position - that's with the diamond penetrator in the open not touching anything. Next slowly turn handle to raise ram until gently touching test block, then slowly continue to raise ram until the big needle approaches 3 revolutions so the little needle is right at the red dot, then slowly raise ram a tad more until until big needle is at the 12 O'clock position. At this time the little needle will be "somewhere" around the red dot, not necessarily centered on red dot - should be close.

I just checked my tester and I can move the big needle anywhere from 10 to 2 O'clock position and the little needle will be around red dot, either just shy of, or just past red dot. You can stop the big needle anywhere between the 11 and 1 O'clock position (manual says 5 marks either side of), then manually rotate the dial until the "0" lines up with the big needle.

You might have to adjust your tester some to get it all working that way - too bad you're not somewhere close {g}

Ken H>
Click to expand...

We're getting real close. I used your advice and kept the large pointer turning on the dial until it was back at the 12 o'clock mark. The small pointer isn't too far away from the red dot at this point. I'm consistently getting readings of 57.5-58HRC on a 60.2HRC test block. So like I said, close. Any idea on how I can adjust this thing so the results would be 2.2-2.7HRC higher? I know that there's an adjustment in the back that I haven't played with.

Thanks for helping Ken!
 
Go up to post #27 and read there - note the two screws holding the plate the center screw goes thru? They are silver colored on my tester. loosen those two screws and move that plate forward a tad - won't take much. If still low, move forward a tad more, if now reading too high, move plate to rear a tad. After tightening the two outside screws, the big needle will again need adjusting with the center screw to somewhere between 11 and 1 O'clock - prefer the 12 noon position.

Try that and let us know. Do feel free to send email by clicking on my name as email comes thru on my phone. If needed, I can call you on phone so we can talk.... Call anytime before 10pm CST.

Ken H>
 
Thanks a bunch everyone, I think I might finally have it fixed. In the end, what finally got it dialed in was the adjustment of the block underneath the two screws behind the dial. Basically I just followed the instructions Ken H put above and was good to go. I'd do a reading and, depending on if it was high or low, move the block back or forward, and then re-zero the large pointer with the center screw/nut. After doing this a few times it was on.

I haven't done a ton of extensive testing with it as I destroyed my lower back the other day cutting down a bunch of trees, which is why I didn't respond sooner to this thread. I'm planning to do some more testing today and the next couple days to make sure it's on point and consistent.

This is such a relief to have fixed(or close to it). Thanks a bunch everyone, especially Ken H. I try to only use this place as a last resort and with this it certainly was. Now if some other poor sap ever has this issue with their Grizzly hardness tester they'll have this thread to help them out.
 
Bummer on the bad back - bad backs are a real hassle. I got your email and I'm glad I could help - I get so much help from these on-line forums it's always a good feeling to be able to give back some.

Comment on your "use this place as a last resort" - this should be your place of "first resort". This is a VERY helpful site and Stacy (and others) work hard to keep it that way.

Ken H>
 
Oh I yeah ya on this place being a "first resort." I guess I meant in regards to starting threads here. I try to figure things out on my own first before clogging this place up. 9 times out of 10 I can get it figured out.

One thing I forgot to ask, what grit are you guys finishing your blade surfaces up to before testing? I tested a knife with a 80 grit finish yesterday and it came back with a real low reading.
 
You do need a pretty good finish prior to testing - I'd think 400 grit is about min.... certainly no less than 320 grit. Even 800 grit is good. Both sides MUST be parallel with no angles. Impossible to check bevel after grinding. The idea is to check edge after HT, but prior to grinding bevels.

Ken H.
 
I just set my Grizzly tester up a couple of days ago, the manual says to clean off the protective grease with kerosene and then to lubricate the main screw with "sufficient amount of proper lubricant". That's pretty vague. I suspect a light oil, but thought I'd lob a question out there before oiling it up.

Thanks

-Kurt
 
Yep, just a light oil is just fine, and WE40 works good as a cleaning agent rather than kerosene.
 
Ken H> said:
Yep, just a light oil is just fine, and WE40 works good as a cleaning agent rather than kerosene.
Click to expand...

Is WD40, or similar aerosol product sufficient to lubricate the lead screw, or would I be better off with a 3-in-1 type oil? Somewhere else it was mentioned to always throw out the first couple of measurements because the machine is still squeezing the oil out of the threads.

THX - Kurt
 
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