Grohmann folder vs Buck 110?

[pinnah]

I might be tempted to go the Grohmann route as no matter how much I try I still cannot seem to warm up to the hollow grind of the Buck. I now own 6 different versions of the 110, some with better steel, some with drop points, one with micarta so I have been trying to warm up to them..... My ideal 110 would be s30v drop point FLAT grind but I have yet to find one. I'm sure most would say my tastes aren't that modern that a Buck wouldn't hold a treasured place in my collection and I dearly want to hold them in high esteem as my Dad carried one for most of his older years but they keep falling short of perfect with me.

This is a bit of a hot button issue for me...

IMO, the issue isn't entirely about flat grind vs hollow grind. It's about how the grinds are executed. I can't tell from the picture if the Grohmann in question is flat or hollow but either way, it is not a full height grind and because of this, it will have a sharp, friction creating shoulder and IMO this is what literally drags when slicing. Two data points and a few observations...

One, I have a Buck 110 with a drop point SABER flat grind. It doesn't slice any better than a Buck hollow grind. The issue is the combination of the spine thickness and the sharp shoulder of the grind.

Two, I have a stock Buck 110 with a hollow grind and clip point that I've thinned and flattened on a course stone. It is still a hollow grind and there is still a discernible shoulder but the shoulder has been scrubbed down and rounded and the blade spine thinned a bit. It's a very good slicer now.

Observation 1: The stock 110 clip point gets noticeably thinner and flatter forward of the clip. The swedged false edge helps thin the spine at this portion. When using a stock 110, I find a slight shift in cutting technique to favor the front of the blade makes is a much better slicer.

Observation 2: I believe that Buck (and other companies) is pretty committed to sharp, clean looking grind lines as an aesthetic design element to make the blades look cool. Cool looking knives with drag inducing grind lines probably sell more than boring looking full flat ground blades which are so old fashioned looking. Perhaps if we ask enough (particularly in the Buck forum, which Buck monitors) Buck will respond?

 

[Pilsner]

The German cutler Rudolph Grohmann emigrated to Canada, by invitation, in 1950. He worked for 'Pictou Cutlery' through the 50's, collaborating with D.H. Russell to produce the now iconic Canadian Boat Knife, with several now familiar variations. Grohmann founded his own company in 1961, also in Pictou, and they have been manufacturing knives in Canada ever since. I love Buck, but there is no need to slag off Grohmann just because one also likes Buck. It's a big old world out there.

 

[cchu518]

Hate this thread. I thought I was done buying stuff for a spell, but I think I need a belt knife now. I've been trying to find a skinny fixed blade that is bigger than a bird and trout, because the bird and trout makes me feel like an idiot that I just didn't grab a paring knife from the kitchen. But also bigger handled than an Izulu. Either the fixed belt knife or the folder might do the trick!

 

[cchu518]

This is a bit of a hot button issue for me...

IMO, the issue isn't entirely about flat grind vs hollow grind. It's about how the grinds are executed. I can't tell from the picture if the Grohmann in question is flat or hollow but either way, it is not a full height grind and because of this, it will have a sharp, friction creating shoulder and IMO this is what literally drags when slicing. Two data points and a few observations...

One, I have a Buck 110 with a drop point SABER flat grind. It doesn't slice any better than a Buck hollow grind. The issue is the combination of the spine thickness and the sharp shoulder of the grind.

Two, I have a stock Buck 110 with a hollow grind and clip point that I've thinned and flattened on a course stone. It is still a hollow grind and there is still a discernible shoulder but the shoulder has been scrubbed down and rounded and the blade spine thinned a bit. It's a very good slicer now.

Observation 1: The stock 110 clip point gets noticeably thinner and flatter forward of the clip. The swedged false edge helps thin the spine at this portion. When using a stock 110, I find a slight shift in cutting technique to favor the front of the blade makes is a much better slicer.

Observation 2: I believe that Buck (and other companies) is pretty committed to sharp, clean looking grind lines as an aesthetic design element to make the blades look cool. Cool looking knives with drag inducing grind lines probably sell more than boring looking full flat ground blades which are so old fashioned looking. Perhaps if we ask enough (particularly in the Buck forum, which Buck monitors) Buck will respond?

Pinnah you might be overthinking this a bit..

How about people just like knives.

The belt knife is a great knife with a unique approach to geometry and handle to blade Dynamics.

Totally disagree about your grind assumptions, I think Sal and every Spyderco fan would disagree either. I'm a complete devotee to Spyderco.

I don't stand in one place and cut anything at any given time long enough to care about flat vs saber grind. Although I do prefer full flat grinds. I won't be deterred from getting a knife if that's absent.

Let's not even bring up the pink elephant in the room aka (the 110 is a pocket/belt holster brick).

 

[pinnah]

cchu518 first of all, I'm a professional over-thinker, thank you very much. ;^)

Secondly, I think we're in raging agreement about grinds. I'm a huge fan of a good full flat grind.

Let me try to make my point coming from another angle... Buck sells some 110 variants as having a "flat grind". They are good robust hard use blade but they are horrible slicers because, in reality, they are really a flat saber grind with a distinct and sharp grind line very much like their hollow grinds. Here is a stock image of the one I got from Copper and Clad. The lighting doesn't show it well but you can make out the clean grind line at the top of the flat main grind.

Any full flat ground Spyderco (or Opinel) will out slice this knife by a country mile. As you would expect, it sits somewhere between a full flat grind an a Mora Companion for slicing ability.

Scandi grind, saber flat (like the 110 above) and hollow grinds (like the stock 110) can have their slicing ability improved if you scrub the blade flatter so it starts to approximate a full flat grind (like on a Spyderco). I've done this with numerous Scandi and hollow ground blades. They don't end up as full flat grinds but but slice much, much better.

EDITED TO ADD: Full agreement about the unique nature of the Russell belt knife in terms of blade/handle design. I hope to try one some day.

 

[slingworks]

I'm a little surprised at the number of postings on my subject...

I decided to pass on a Grohmann for now, I ended up feeling like they wouldn't offer much more over my Buck 110 if anything. I did notice the bucks have what appear to be a one piece liner/bolster. I think that does add a little to the build.
I'm starting to warm up to the Bucks, they seem to be a decent knife for the price.

I did pick up another buck hunting knife that I thought I'd love, but turned out I can't stand it. Not long ago I picked up a 1990 vintage 105...
The handle felt pretty good to me and growing up my father had a case xx knife with similar overall shape, etc...So I thought it would be a great piece. After using it the first time I didn't care for it at all. I found the blade shape and grind to be off somehow. Just felt wrong to me.
I went back to using my regular hunting knife. (A&R) Finn Lap knife....

I like knives, but I am not a real "knife" collecting guy. I have a handful of pocketknives and a few hunting knives. Most I use.
I/we do work with knives daily (I own a small manufacturing/production shop).
When it comes to work knives for the most part I won't touch anything unless it's a flat grind carbon steel blade.
As to hunting/fillet knives, I much prefer stainless...

 

[Pilsner]

I'm a little surprised at the number of postings on my subject...

I decided to pass on a Grohmann for now, I ended up feeling like they wouldn't offer much more over my Buck 110 if anything. I did notice the bucks have what appear to be a one piece liner/bolster. I think that does add a little to the build.
I'm starting to warm up to the Bucks, they seem to be a decent knife for the price.

I did pick up another buck hunting knife that I thought I'd love, but turned out I can't stand it. Not long ago I picked up a 1990 vintage 105...
The handle felt pretty good to me and growing up my father had a case xx knife with similar overall shape, etc...So I thought it would be a great piece. After using it the first time I didn't care for it at all. I found the blade shape and grind to be off somehow. Just felt wrong to me.
I went back to using my regular hunting knife. (A&R) Finn Lap knife....

I like knives, but I am not a real "knife" collecting guy. I have a handful of pocketknives and a few hunting knives. Most I use.
I/we do work with knives daily (I own a small manufacturing/production shop).
When it comes to work knives for the most part I won't touch anything unless it's a flat grind carbon steel blade.
As to hunting/fillet knives, I much prefer stainless...

Haha. Don’t be surprised if a thread involving 110’s invokes many passionate replies.

I own three, but I also have a Grohmann #1 and to my younger son I gave a Grohmann #3, which he loves. Of course those are both fixed blades, so not on your radar, but both excellent knives. Speaking neutrally from the UK, I was a little saddened to see a few people posting ignorantly about Grohmann in favour of Buck. As if Buck is the only company with a decent pedigree.

 

[Wallace Mutt]

Grohmann knives are nice, a few more added details on them than the Buck 110's that probably add to the price. They seem to hold more value than the Bucks in the used market. Ray Mears has endorsed the slimline folders Grohmann makes.

 

[rxavage]

Found my Canadian belt knife. Their survival knife looks rad too too

 

[WolfyW]

I know the OP has settled on a choice. Just adding my .02 on Grohmann. I own 2 of their belt knives. And handled the folder in question. I bought it new as a gift for a friend who had invited me deer hunting many times. The folder is solid, ergonomic. Moreso than the 110, which ive handled and would be proud to own as well. Though i find it heavy. Sabre grind. The blade steel is comparable to buck. Well hardened. Lifetime warranty. Even the sheath is thick, heavy duty. I'd like one for myself. You can buy direct factory seconds for half price, no warranty. Grohmanns been around for decades and their knives have processed countless wild game here in Canada.

 

[dirc]

fwiw, the steel is 4110 and links to it can be found in this thread - https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/grohmann-knives.1294502/

 

[WolfyW]

Great read and pics. Now I want to spend more. I don't have any of their pocket knives, that link has me lusting.

 

[John A. Larsen]

In 2002 in Kandahar, Canadian chopper pilots had the Grohmann survival knives on their belts, but last year I read that the Canadian military was no longer going to buy Grohmann knives, no reason given. The Grohmann flat ground carbon steel fixed blade knives seem to be good, but a bit expensive for what you get. I have a Grohmann #3 in stainless steel, with the Broad Arrow inside a "C" indicating Canadian military issue, in a "Jump Sheath" which is simply a sheath with a flap. It is an adequate knife, but if given the choice between it and say a Case 337-6 Q, it would be left behind. John

 

[Hickory n steel]

I've got a Grohmann mini Russell and I Love it, ergonomics are unmatched in a folder with a non neutral handle.

I will however say that the 110 is a much better value and they slice much better.

The blade stock is the same, but the 110 is a little bit wider with a higher grind.
Of course the mini Russell is a smaller knife, I don't know if the full sized would compare better than the 110 but from what I see in the mini I have I'm betting they're just generally thicker in profile.


I love my mini Russell and would probably rather have one over a 112 for sure but I don't think I'd take a full sized over my 110 just because I love them so much.

 

[WolfyW]

I've got a Grohmann mini Russell and I Love it, ergonomics are unmatched in a folder with a non neutral handle.

I will however say that the 110 is a much better value and they slice much better.

The blade stock is the same, but the 110 is a little bit wider with a higher grind.
Of course the mini Russell is a smaller knife, I don't know if the full sized would compare better than the 110 but from what I see in the mini I have I'm betting they're just generally thicker in profile.


I love my mini Russell and would probably rather have one over a 112 for sure but I don't think I'd take a full sized over my 110 just because I love them so much.

What's the Weight difference ?

 

[Hickory n steel]

What's the Weight difference ?

Well the larger 110 weighs a good deal more because it's a larger knife and has a solid brass frame vs the brass liners and nickel silver bolsters. Plus it's a bearhead which means only bolsters on one end.
I don't have a single problem with the weight of my 110 which I love, but if I did I've got a 110lt.

The Grohmann is a fine knife for sure, though the 110 is a better value and has a lot more options available.

 

[WolfyW]

Well the larger 110 weighs a good deal more because it's a larger knife and has a solid brass frame vs the brass liners and nickel silver bolsters. Plus it's a bearhead which means only bolsters on one end.
I don't have a single problem with the weight of my 110 which I love, but if I did I've got a 110lt.

The Grohmann is a fine knife for sure, though the 110 is a better value and has a lot more options available.

Some real differences there, though. Clip versus eliptical/drop. Hollow grind versus sabre. Strength to resist chipping ? Origin, import costs. How much hand work went into each or not ( I'm a unejumicated on that point ). As for price, are we talking $40. difference or $300. ?
The original OP didn't mention intended use, or I missed it. As far as the steel, sure, not a super steel. But well hardened and a general net search turns up 4....6...dressed deer and still sharp. Nothing to sneeze at. They're a general purpose game dresser that was meant to be used, looks/feels decent but won't break the bank. Just trying to help with perspective, but reiterate I believe both are excellent knives and companies, wouldn't hesitate to use either. My advice, get one of each eventually and enjoy them to the max. FWIW I've got a new Case Trapper here and can't wait to use it on big game though some say there are better and worse options. And I know I can hand sharpen any knife when the time comes.

 

[stabman]

In 2002 in Kandahar, Canadian chopper pilots had the Grohmann survival knives on their belts, but last year I read that the Canadian military was no longer going to buy Grohmann knives, no reason given.

Pretty sure it was purely a matter of price, if I remember correctly.