Group survival shelters.

N

NB16

Joined
Jul 22, 2006
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I was just thinking about if you and a group of friends were to go on a canoe trip and got lost by some way( canoes overturned and destroyed by the rapids). This is highly hypothetical situation by the way. If all of you were lost soaking wet, but you only have your psk and a small knife you brought for canoing. Not near enough for a Group. Only one or two of your buddies has any outdoor experience. What would you do?Are you screwed or is this too easy!


By the way this almost happened to me last summer.
 
I was just thinking about if like you and a group of friends were to go on like a canoe trip or something. If You did get lost by some way( canoes overturned and destroyed by the rapids)
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This means that all your beer is gone, too? If so, then all that's left is to survive. :(

This is highly hypothetical situation by the way. If all of you were lost soaking wet, but wait you only have your psk and a small knife you brought for canoeing. Not near enough for a Group.
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First of all, why are you canoeing with guys that don't own a knife? Secondly, since they didn't bring a knife, that tells me they probably don't know how to use one, so don't let them use yours or it may end up broken and all of a sudden your situation gets worse.

OK, you're wet and probably cold, you have no spare clothing (left with the canoes), so, you have to get warm and dry, and the only way to do that is with a fire. Designate some of your buddies to get firewood - lots and lots of firewood, and tell them what kind - not wet wood, laying on the ground. Also lots of Birch bark, if it's available, armloads of squaw wood. You have your PSK so starting a fire shouldn't be a problem.


Only one or two of your buddies has any outdoor experience.
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This makes it a lot easier. First of all, his knowledge base might fill voids in yours. Also there's another voice if there's dissension about what you should do. Get the fire well established and take a moment and discuss with the group what the priorities are, so you can get to work on them. Explain the need for a shelter and how you're going to go about securing it.
Once you're dry and warmed up, start gathering shelter building material and get them built. Night comes fast, especially when you have to make your shelters. Once your shelters are built, you can take a breath and discuss with the group the reality of the situation and what you have to do from there. Show them that all is not lost and that with a bit of effort, things will be just fine.

What would you do? Are you screwed or is this too easy!
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First of all, you're never screwed, just sometimes it's harder than others. Hell, you have a big advantage - many hands to gather lots of firewood, shelter material, etc. Don't have to worry about the goblins that visit at night when you're by yourself. You have at least one other person with some experience. You didn't mention injuries, so I assume there aren't any. You're not in a really bad way at all. You have to use your head, don't panic, establish your priorities and work on them, and think about this. When you were leaving to go on the trip, your inlaws were coming for a visit. Now how do you feel?

By the way this almost happened to me last summer.
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This is probably a good thing. Your buddies had a chance to see what can happen, especially if you're unprepared, and with some encouragement, might take some steps to change that. AND GET THEM TO BUY A F*****G KNIFE!!! In fact, more than one and learn how to use them.

Doc
 
Kill and eat the friends you don't like. Problem solved!
 
I dont know about making multiple shelters. Personally I would make one big lean-to so that if it were really cold you have three warm bodies radiating heat. Other than that I think Doc covered it very well.
 
I think... I'm so ashamed to admit this... that I'm a Doc Canada groupy. I wonder if there is therapy for that.
 
Kill and eat the friends you don't like. Problem solved!
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I was camping on pretty far back in the Shinning Rock Wilderness one fall with an old girl friend of mine. We both have spent lots of time in the woods and are not strangers to the mountains in that area. During the night we got a medium snowfall and woke up to a white wonderland. We were joking around about how much longer it was going to take to hike out with all the new snow. I made the comment that I least I would not starve to death. She asked why and I told her if worst came to worst I would have to eat her. She smiled kinda sly like and said, "Well that might kill some time but what are we gonna do about food?"

:D
 
Well it's like climb onto the bank, dude, and then like sit with your friends and meditate over The Secret, and then call home, or but wait maybe somebody will rescue you. But personally, I hope you're screwed.

Edit: Oh yeah, 'kay, 'kay, Doc you crack me up :) Dude, you need Wilson.
 
There is an article on the wall of my house, cut from a Field and Stream magazine. The title is the Wilderness Blade, talks about Mor's choice and shows a modified mora knife. There is a very interesting quote, a nordic proverd..... it goes.....

"A man without a knife, is a man without a life."

I thought it fit, with you talking about your knifeless buddies. :)

-Scottman
 
Scottman,

Here's a quote from Wilderness Way magazine:
"A good knife is everything! And, if you do not want to carry a knife, you should stay out of the woods". (Alton Safford - WW10-3-3)

Doc
 
I definitely agree, fire first! After that, everything is gravy to me. A big fire is essentially a shelter. You can get dry and stay dry in all but the most ridiculous weather with a good fire.

Once the fire is rolling, I would look at two lean-tos, facing each other, fire in the middle. If necessary, you can cut green softwood about three inches thick (maybe more, but that's all I've ever done) with a sturdy non-chopping fixed blade, so I would say keeping a solid fire going should be pretty do-able for most guys. I would be building the parallel firelay as I believe it's called, long wide fire to heat up the lean-tos along the whole width. That's actually about the only fire setup I use, stacking logs or sticks in parallel, and I find it to burn very well. Handles wet or green wood easily.

And with the two shelters/fire in between, I think you'd get the most out of your fire. Some people don't like lean-tos, but I do. I do think you need a fire to get much out of them, though. Otherwise I guess they would do for rain if there wasn't much of a wind. But with a fire they are great. My camping set-up is kind of similar; I string up a tarp, and get heat from a fire if I need it
 
Depends on the weather- if it is warm, and you are soaked, build a shelter big enough to pile into as a group. If it is cool and breezy, or just cold, then fire, yeah. But too many people go into pyro mode when you can do more in the immediate with a shelter in many circumstances.

As for the friends, I couldn't tell you. All of mine are at least basically familiar with woodscraft and camping. The joys of being a country boy. Heck, I won't even date a lady who freaks out over spiders, but that's just because I'm too lazy to chase them out from under the eves. :P
 
if your friends are hot chicks theres only one way to keep warm;) otherwise eat the fellas from Broke Back Mountain:barf:
 
ironraven said:
Depends on the weather- if it is warm, and you are soaked, build a shelter big enough to pile into as a group. If it is cool and breezy, or just cold, then fire, yeah. But too many people go into pyro mode when you can do more in the immediate with a shelter in many circumstances.
As for the friends, I couldn't tell you. All of mine are at least basically familiar with woodscraft and camping. The joys of being a country boy. Heck, I won't even date a lady who freaks out over spiders, but that's just because I'm too lazy to chase them out from under the eves. :P
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That's an interesting comment to me, my experience is the opposite. I find people often want a place to go, but it takes (me) too long to set up a shelter, and if it is cold enough to need a shelter, then I would guess heat is my main concern at that point, even if not obviously pressing yet. If I need to get warmed up, I can sure make a fire faster than I can make any sort of shelter, especially for a group. In fact I figure fire to be step one in practically any survival situation, just on the grounds that cold seems to be the fastest thing you're likely to die from out in the bush.


Why do you figure shelter? I am not trying to argue here, just curious about your experiences since they have taken you to such a different conclusion.
 
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