Guided sharpening systems angle consistency

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walkingsapien

Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
24
I am seriously looking into the many different types of sharpeners on the market, I want something that is easy to use and that will give me a razor sharp durable edge.* From all of the sites I have ready it appears that a double bevel is the best type of blade finish and with the S30V blade I think I would go with a 15deg transition angle and a 20deg final cutting edge for durability.
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However, I am unsure which sharpener to go for, I can afford either the sharpmaker, DMT angle deluxe or just a couple of stones.* I have not done any hand sharpening since I was a teenager so doubt I would have the skills still in my hands.
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Everyone raves about the sharpmaker but a lot of sites recommend the guided systems like the DMT, but I see one fatal flaw with the guided systems and that is that the angle changes along the blade length especially with a curved blade, I have calculated that with my knife that the angle will fluctuate between 15 and 16 degrees and 20 and 22 degrees.* Also I understand that you would need to clamp the knife in the same place each time to maintain the angle.
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Is this change along the blade relevant?
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Could I achieve this accuracy with the sharpmaker anyway?
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Should I even worry?
 
Yes, the sharpening angle along the belly of a curved blade does change somewhat when you're sharpening it, but I haven't found it to be a problem. You can achieve a remarkable degree of accuracy with the Sharpmaker, depending on your technique and consistency.

That said, I wouldn't get too obsessed with perfect angles. Not many of us can achieve them when sharpening no matter what we use. The angles you use are important and they should be held as closely as possible, but they aren't the only things that determine how sharp your edge is going to be. How well you work the entire length of the edge to raise a small burr, and then how well you remove that burr without rolling the edge is going to be a big factor as well. After all, convex bevels are some of the sharpest edges going, and they are convex, not straight.

If you have no sharpening system now, I would start with the Sharpmaker. The system is easy to set up and use, and the instructional DVD is pretty good for explaining how it works and showing examples. It's relatively inexpensive, it will cover both of the angles that you are talking about using, and you can turn the base over and use the rods like a benchstone if you want to sharpen by hand. I have found the Sharpmaker to be excellent for maintaining an edge and doing light-to-medium sharpening. If you want, you can even add diamond rods for serious sharpening and u/f rods for polishing.

If you decide you need something more, then you could look at a guided system like the Edge Pro, Lansky, or Gatco systems. They are going take more of an effort to set up and use, but they will also do more than a Sharpmaker alone.
 
The Sharpmaker is quick and easy. It is also a pain to change the bevel angle on a knife, and it is easy to round the point. You also really need the diamond sticks to sharpen the new hard stainless steels really well.
The DMT Aligner or similar is slower, must be set up precisely, but they do a great job on re-bevels and the diamonds cut well.
The change in angle over the length of a blade is non-critical, although long blades may need two set-ups to be sharpened well.
If you want smooth edges you will need to add some stropping as well.
Greg
 
My GATCO system works great for me. I have the professional kit with their extra fine and ultimate finishing hones added. I then finish on two unmounted leather strops. One with white and the other with red polishing compound.

I can achieve better than a shaving edge.
 
Even the king of guided sharpeners, the Edge Pro, will exhibit bevel angle fluctuation over the length of the blade being sharpened. I managed to get a fairly consistent bevel on my Wusthof 5" chef's knife without repositioning the Lansky system. Any blade much longer than that would probably need a longer base.

 
given the choice of either the Sharpmaker or the Lansky which would you suggest. Over here I can get the Lansky for $50(£25) whereas the Sharpmaker is almost $100(£49), if I can acheive more consintency from the Lansky would that be better, could I produce the blade angles I wanted on a small bladed Spyderco with S30V steel and maintain that edge easily.
 
Greg is entirely correct. Unless you have badly damaged or worn blades or intent to re-bevel everything, you're probably better off starting with a Sharpmaker and a strop.

I first purchased the DMT kit then realized just how much metal diamond stones remove. I still use it for re-beveling but I use the Sharpmaker for all routine sharpening short of serious blade damage and a strop for final finish.
 
walkingsapien said:
given the choice of either the Sharpmaker or the Lansky which would you suggest. Over here I can get the Lansky for $50(£25) whereas the Sharpmaker is almost $100(£49), if I can acheive more consintency from the Lansky would that be better, could I produce the blade angles I wanted on a small bladed Spyderco with S30V steel and maintain that edge easily.
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From what I understand for the Sharpmaker to work you need the blade already beveled to one of the two angles it uses. I believe it is either 40° or 30°. If you have a sharp knife at one of those angles then you are in business. If you need to rebevel then you will be hard pressed to do it on the Sharpmaker.

The Lansky will do 17°, 20°, 25°, and 30° bevels.

I have the GATCO. It is similar to the Lansky. It will do 11°, 15°, 19°, 22°, 25°, and 30° angles. I added the extra fine and ultimate finishing stones. I use two unmounted strops with white and red polishing compound for finishing and for touchups between sharpening.

In my limited experience I would recommend the Lansky type system. It is closer to using a bench stone and freehanding than the Sharpmaker but it is almost like machinging the edge. The angle is very consistent along the edge.
 
If the blade angles not an issue with the lansky I may go for that system. Also it is much cheaper comes with a wider range of stones.

Would you recommend the standard hones(comes with an ultra-fine) or the Arkansas hones?
 
walkingsapien said:
If the blade angles not an issue with the lansky I may go for that system. Also it is much cheaper comes with a wider range of stones.

Would you recommend the standard hones(comes with an ultra-fine) or the Arkansas hones?
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I have the standard stones on my GATCO. I assume that they are comparable to the Lansky standard kit. The only two I have added are the extra fine and ultimate finishing hone from GATCO. The ultimate one is a ceramic.

Lansky also has a "Super Sapphire Polishing Hone" available.

If I was looking at the Lansky I would buy their Professional kit. That would get you the serrated hone and the ultra fine. I would then add the Super Saphire. Then I would see where that got me. Then I would look into stropping for a final step if desired.
 
I just bought both the lansky deluxe and sharpmaker 204. I can't say I have the hang of them yet. About to place an order with Continental who confirm they will sheet to Australia

A couple of questions if I may.

1. Sharpmaker - which rods from continental to add to do coarse reprofiling and finer polishing?

2. Lansky - do they really need the honing oil? Sinc I have only used it once can I just clean the oil off and use ti dry?

Have to say tried the lansky on a couple of smaller folders and it had real problems holding them firmly

Stropping ????
3. There are strait razor style strops advertised on Ebay is there any advantage of them over using an old belt?
4. What grits should I order from contintal to charge a strop?

And if ordering from contintal why not go the whole hog

What stones would you reccomend for freehanding

Ruby 320 600 1200 2500????

Appreciate input
 
walkingsapien said:
If the blade angles not an issue with the lansky I may go for that system. Also it is much cheaper comes with a wider range of stones.

Would you recommend the standard hones(comes with an ultra-fine) or the Arkansas hones?
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My cobbled-together outfit includes the three hones from the basic kit (120, 280, 600), a 1000-grit hone, and a coarse diamond hone for aggressive rebeveling. It works fairly well for my purposes.
 
Davyd said:
I just bought both the lansky deluxe and sharpmaker 204. I can't say I have the hang of them yet. About to place an order with Continental who confirm they will sheet to Australia

A couple of questions if I may.

1. Sharpmaker - which rods from continental to add to do coarse reprofiling and finer polishing?

2. Lansky - do they really need the honing oil? Sinc I have only used it once can I just clean the oil off and use ti dry?

Have to say tried the lansky on a couple of smaller folders and it had real problems holding them firmly

Stropping ????
3. There are strait razor style strops advertised on Ebay is there any advantage of them over using an old belt?
4. What grits should I order from contintal to charge a strop?

And if ordering from contintal why not go the whole hog

What stones would you reccomend for freehanding

Ruby 320 600 1200 2500????

Appreciate input
Click to expand...


My GATCO is similar to the Lansky. I cannot do very small blades.

My strops consist of some scrap leather that I simply place on my workbench. I then charge them with the stick of polishing compound rubbing like with a crayon.
 
Right I have decided to get a guided system then. I can afford the 3 diamond stone system or the Lansky Deluxe.

I understand the diamond would be quicker and the extra fine hone in the kit should give a good finish, should I be concerned with the aggressivness of the diamand stones or will they just get the job done quicker?
 
walkingsapien said:
Right I have decided to get a guided system then. I can afford the 3 diamond stone system or the Lansky Deluxe.

I understand the diamond would be quicker and the extra fine hone in the kit should give a good finish, should I be concerned with the aggressivness of the diamand stones or will they just get the job done quicker?
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A lot of guys use the diamonds. I like the stones. With the GATCO they recommend 8 to 10 passes down the blade. You start at the heel and make overlapping strokes to the tip. You do that 8 or 10 times then flip the blade and repeat. Then you go to a finer stone. With an already sharp knife I maintain with the finest stone and stropping. No need to go all the way to the coarse each time.

It is pretty quick to do even with the standard stones. I do not know how the diamond would speed it up. You still need to progress from coarse to fine diamond stones.
 
Hard H2O said:
A lot of guys use the diamonds. I like the stones. With the GATCO they recommend 8 to 10 passes down the blade. You start at the heel and make overlapping strokes to the tip. You do that 8 or 10 times then flip the blade and repeat. Then you go to a finer stone. With an already sharp knife I maintain with the finest stone and stropping. No need to go all the way to the coarse each time.

It is pretty quick to do even with the standard stones. I do not know how the diamond would speed it up. You still need to progress from coarse to fine diamond stones.
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I didn't realise it was that few strokes, one of the sites I read suggested 100 per side. No need for the extra expense of the diamonds then!
 
walkingsapien said:
I didn't realise it was that few strokes, one of the sites I read suggested 100 per side. No need for the extra expense of the diamonds then!
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I do not know what the Lansky suggests but that is for the GATCO.

I was taking an old Chicago chef's knife down to 15° just messing around last night. I got it down to 19° but I couldn't get the tip right. It was like the tip was harder than the rest of the blade. I got the blade very sharp except for the tip. I was thinking I should pick up a coarse diamond hone and see if it cuts quicker for extreme reprofiling jobs.
 
I've used the Lanskey system for years and the Sharpmaker for a few now too. I'd take the Lanskey if I had to have only one because it will do more, although for touch-up sharpening it is slower.

I've had lots of different stones and diamond hones with the Lanskey and in the end I could get by with just the regular stones and an extra-course diamond which I've used to radiacally reprofile even large knives e.g. the 7-inch Becker and even a large Coroneta machette that had no grind in Costa Rica. Once the "hogging out" is done with the extras course diamond hone, the regular stones work fine. I don't recommend too many Lanskey diamond hones, because I've found that they don't last long (the diamonds wear off the hone), whereas the regular stones I got with my first kit are still in great shape. I do not baby my hones though.
 
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