Guidelines for posting in this forum

Nurse Ratchet, and yes it's:

time for your medication,boys!

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Dave (Phil.4:13)
I Can Do All Things Through Him Who Strengthens Me
 
Maybe a good rule of thumb for this particular forum is "We review knives here not people"
Bob
 
Excellent point Strider!!!
Acth Tung Mine Forumiters!! I hereby nominate Heir Cliff Stamp for Fueher of dis forum! Salute your new leader!!!
Big smile! Big smile! Big smile!

[This message has been edited by L6STEEL (edited 05-18-2000).]
 
We all having fun playing Beat Up on Cliff? Everyone working out their aggression?

Again, I don't see anything usefull coming out of this. So let's end it, ok?

If you have problems with Cliff, take it up with him via private email. In the mean time, let's get back to knife reviews.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
cliff,

i see now that you are not man enough to publicly admit you were wrong about me but publicly dragged my name into this mess. no, i wont go to dex or joe because i fight my own battles. you jumped on me in public forums and you should apologize in the forums. simple as that.

even with all the posts agreeing with me i see you still simply ignore a response to me.
what class from a moderator
frown.gif


and keep locking those threads
biggrin.gif
why not just totally delete them? this is starting to look alot like lynn's forums!
 
Originally posted by Spark:
...If there is something wrong with the knife I was interested in, I know that I *damn sure* would want to know what the flaws are with it, without relying on some hollow hype that a maker's fan club is spewing....

{emphasis mine}

Spark, et al, I have a question. Anyone who is sand blasting (I liked that one Rob) the "fan club," why do you think we are fans of Lynn's knives? Because we pay so much for them? (Yeah, I'd admit, they do cost a lot.) Because Lynn is somehow always blowing sunshine up our collective a$$? Because we are a bunch of idiots that have nothing better to do that pick some arbitrary knife maker and start "worshipping" him?

It is because most of the knives that come out of his shop are apparently excellent examples of workmanship and quality. Because most of the knives exhibit a style that is pure function, and do that job well.

I think (think) that it is just such statements as that made above, even though they are off hand, that have caused what has to be a flame war to rival even the... what is it, "insane puppy" ... wars.

I read back through the two initial reviews. I have read them several times. I have already apologized here and in private e-mail to maddog2020. I have come over to the opinion that, even though md2020's review is critical of the knife in question, it is a pretty well objective view. And, it doesn't insult those that have good Griffith knives. But, I'm still having a problem with TomW's review. Yeah, it backs up md2020's, and maybe at the time md2020's needed it. But, IMO, statements such as
The knife is much more suitable for battling it out with a tomato than a human. Of course if it was called a tomato knife it couldn't possible fetch the price that it does. It just comes down to marketing. People can be sold anything.
and
As i already mentioned, call it tactical, add some endless self promotion and people will buy anything.
that are unfair to the knife, and insulting to the people who have bought the Patrolman and use it for much more than a tomato knife, successfully.

And actually, other than those two statements, the review is not really bad. It is a little harsh. In one or two places, it may imply that the Patrolman design in general is a poorly executed knife, although I think that statement can only be said about this particular Patrolman. Chalk it up to a poor choice of words, and let's get on with reviews (like someone else said).

TomW, I was going to e-mail you a personal apology for some things that I said (or maybe I was just thinking them; at this point, I don't feel like going back through all the posts to see if I actually said them). But, your e-mail address isn't available, so... I apologize here. But, you definitely are one "gruff" reviewer.
wink.gif


I'm still a member of the Griffith fan club, and will remain so. Well, actually, I hope I'm still a member. I'm definitely a fan of his knives.

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iktomi

[This message has been edited by rockspyder (edited 05-18-2000).]

[This message has been edited by rockspyder (edited 05-19-2000).]
 
NEVER, Jake.

Just kidding.
smile.gif
Actually, my post above was trying to be just an explanation of why I had behaved badly, and an apology to TomW. Sorry it turned out so long.

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iktomi
 
redface.gif


For under $50 in today's market, you can get yourself a couple or three knives that your ancestors in the pre-industrial bad old days would envy. The rest of what we discuss with such enthusiasm here is "nice things do do with discretionary income."

So let's try to keep a sense of proportion here. For the level of anger I see here (between people I like, dammit!), there are more appropriate venues. Like any of the unmoderated "religion and politics" newsgroups and forums out there.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
Sometimes when a knifemaker asks another maker on his thoughts of a knife, what is not said is just as important as what is said.

Just a thought that might help.

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" I am continually reminded of the rewards of dealing with custom knife makers and the custom knife community." Jeff J.
 
I know from my knothole that I've always tried to reveal using impressions in my reviews. I'm not a metallurgist, scientist, or any type of technician, so I don't provide specs or test to near destruction. I like relating performance in use. Given my involvement with Talonite from day one and my enthusiast embracing of it as a fantastic performer in the field, I avoided many more recent threads that sought to apply scientific methodology to issues such as edge retention. Again, if a given blade could butcher 5 wild hogs without sharpening, I figured that meant a heck of a lot more than edge angles, wire edges, et al. And that continues to be my approach.

What I'm driving at is that we all should be able to recognize the frame of reference folks use in posting their opinions of various knives and accessories. That's what these forums are all about... a free ranging discussion of opinions on what brings us all here, knives! What are those old sayings? Different strokes for different folks. Or was it whatever floats your boat?

My GF moderating compadre James makes excellent sense in what he admonishes above too (as he always does
smile.gif
!)

So if a gent's opinion is that a particular model functions best as a kitchen knife and not a fighter, where's the foul? Is the choice of adjectives in conveying such wrong? Heck, you guys wouldn't believe the posts (probably better termed rants) I made about a particular Remington varmint rifle I bought. It had excessive overbore, rifling quality problems, and poor accuracy. The norm among varmint shooters is sub-MOA (minute of angle accuracy) yet the factory advised me that 3 MOA was their QA standard. Aside from the overbore problem, I took issue with how a product could be marketed for and labeled as a varmint piece yet not reflect quality controls to provide the type of performance routinely associated with varminting. See the analogy here?

Anyhow, I personally see nothing wrong with evaluating performance in the context of what the manufacturer has adverised its use for. Just keep in mind that what floats one guys boat will sink another's. Something akin to Jeff's comment (liberal license taken here) about the mundane giving excellent performance in skilled hands and the state-of-the-art sucking wind in the hands of the inexperienced.

That's my two centavos from the shadow of Freedom's Shrine (Mount Rushmore) here in the Black Hills of South Dakota. Trust I haven't trod on anyone's toes or ego!


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-=[Bob Allman]=-

I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!

BFC member since the very beginning
Member: American Knife & Tool Institute; Varmint Hunters Association;
National Rifle Association; Praire Thunder Inc.; Rapid City Rifle Club;
Spearfish Rifle & Pistol Club; Buck Collectors Club (prime interest: 532s)
Certified Talonite(r) enthusiast!


[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 05-20-2000).]
 
Hi Bob!!!
WOW 3" MOA???? Thats not good at all!!! My Rem VSSF will do under 1" MOA all day long with regular ammo, with Match ammo it gets REAL surgical:) IF they are trying to tell you 3" at 100 yds is OK they are out of line!!! I would rant and rave about that!!! Heck a Savage will do better than that for less $$$
Anyway good to hear from you bud... Hows that Talonite Chimera doin?

Take Care
Trace Rinaldi

I wish I had some smart saying to put here
smile.gif


 
Before the Internet, when you read some kind of testing or review "in print" it usually meant it was written by an "expert" or at least someone who was supposedly qualified or recognized as having some expertise (TV and radio commercials excluded).

The Internet has made us all "authorities." Anyone who has anything to say about anything can climb on their soapbox and shout it to the world via the internet. What we have here is a neighborhood bar writ large. Nothing wrong with that as long as you take it with a grain of salt and consider each and every source and remember where you are--in cyberspace.

So let's yuk it up, have a few laughs like you would have at any good bar, and if possible avoid the flying chairs. When it gets too rough, the bouncers er...moderators should handle it. If the moderator has had a few too many, time to call 911 or go to a different bar (or at least to the "family room".
smile.gif




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Hoodoo

The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stone—the light-press’d blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.

Walt Whitman
 
Trace,

Good to see you posting
smile.gif
! Yeah, that 700VS I had was a lemon. We finally got it to shoot in the 6's after the longest load development I've experienced in 30+ years. It took having to use an OAL much greater than the SAMMI max of 2.800" for the 308WIN. I got rid of it and am now shooting a Savage 10FP with a 20" tube that shot in the 3's out of the box with factory ammo!

The Chimera is still looking great and performing even better. Recalling my reviews, with the narrower stock it was fashioned from, I use it for gentler duty than the Wambli Rob made up for me. So the Wambli shows the rough useage I've given it, whereas the Chimera still looks dressy with its dimpled burgundy G-10 scales and fancy mosaic pins
smile.gif
. I still love the Chimera's great grip! I trust others have found the design to be a good alternative to your TTKK.

All the best!

Bob
 
Anyone remember the days, only a few years ago, when you could say virtually anything you wanted to on rec.knives, because there were virtually no knifemakers on there to offend. Things were easier then. You could blast a knife and only have the hurt feelings of people who liked the knife to deal with.

Nowadays, a lot of knifemakers frequent the Internet, and we buy a lot of knives from them because we know them, or at least know of them. Now, it is simply bad manners to flame a knife, knowing the maker is going to read the post the same time as everyone else.

This has led me more towards the creed of some of the knife magazines: if you don't have something good to say, don't say anything. I remember once saying something in general about handmade liner lock folders not being appreciably more reliable than factory ones, and when a mean person tried to badger me into naming names, I refused. Maybe Mr. Griffith remembers that, and maybe now he has a better appreciation for my position at the time.

I think if people reviewed knives remembering that somebody likes it even if you don't, and write as though they were writing a friendly letter to the maker, keeping in mind that the maker will probably read it, things would work out fine. People's feelings do count, and sometimes, especially when the maker is trying hard to make the best knives they can and make enough knives to feed his kids, they are just as important as one person's opinion about one knife. If a knife maker puts out second rate work, his business will suffer without any help from Internet reviews.

It is harder to figure out how to get those who just like to say mean things, or at least are habitually thoughtless, to keep their words to themselves. What Cliff proposed at the start of this thread is absolutely essential to a civil discussion among opinionated strangers: talk about the knives, not the people, and even be polite about the knives. As a moderator, I find myself repeating that over and over.
 
I think a lot of us still hold to traditional values. Go ahead and call us old fashioned. We still believe in respect, honor, valor, and looking out for each other. Something I read on the 'Randall's Forum':

"Sometimes, discretion is the better part of valor."

It was stated by Bryan Lee Sammis. Fellows, he's got a point. And what ever happened to mutual respect?

Just a thought.


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Champions make improvements as fast as losers make excuses.
 
Enough has been said on the Griffith knife, and I have nothing to add there, but as far as writing only positive reviews... that's why I come here for real knife info instead of the knife mags. I'm at least as interested in the bad reviews as the good ones, so that I know what to avoid. I'd think that any maker worth his salt would appreciate bad reviews, too, if a knife he made deserved it, as long as the review was fairly and honestly written.

Sure, a knifemaker's repeat business will suffer if he's putting out a bad product, but bad reviews can help first-time buyers from making the same mistake.

Ryan

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For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23


 
I'll take Ryan's post one further.

A maker showing a customer past critiques, and then showing the features on his knives which address those critiques, will appear thoughtful and willing to evolve. Additionally, it will help the customer to learn a lesson that could otherwise have only been taught by the distasteful experience of purchasing a knife which contained the original flaw.

SHOW me what WAS wrong, and SHOW me how you fixed the problem.

I've got several knives from young, promising makers that have somewhat obvious flaws. I anticipate the day when those makers point out the flaws to me themselves, and insist upon correcting them. Of course, I'll refuse that request, as the knives will, at that point, transcend mistakes, and become lessons a successful maker has learned - much more dear to me than simple steel.

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AKTI Member #A000832

"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, the bear eats you."
 
An interesting point was mentioned here. Knifewriters? Experts? Where did that come from? Do you know that very few knives get mentioned in an article if the knifemaker or company isn't an advertiser? Do you know it's the policy of some knife magazines not to write about ANY knifemaker that isn't an advertiser? Where does writer expertise come to play? Expert liars? Expert salesmen?
Aren't you the least bit suspicious of not seeing anything negative written about any knife?
 
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