Gun & Knife Show Ignorance

marco · Jan 9, 1999

i just got back from a local gun and knife show and i have to share this with someone.
first, one dealer had not even heard of Benchmade's new folders - and this guy sell knives for a living. i showed him my axis lock 710 and he looked at it for a few minutes and said - "i'm not sure these will sell very well, because there is no way that this is as strong as a liner lock". "it is also much harder to close this knife". and "it only has one little pin holding the knife open - it must not be strong enough".
another dealer handed some guys a new BM G-10, 710 axis and told them "i know this looks and feel like g-10, but it is anodized aluminum. it is aluminum that is supposed to look and feel like G-10". "that's what Benchmade's literature says".
no, i didn't say anything to any of these people, mostly because what's the use? anyone have any similar stories?

marco

[This message has been edited by marco (edited 09 January 1999).]

clip point · Jan 9, 1999

marco-

I know what you mean. Not at a gun&knife show, but at this mall shop that just opened up in July. The guy who runs it loves to argue, and thinks he's the foremost authority on every brand and model. Once I pointed to his display case and said "Can I see that BM 350SBT Mel Pardue? He replied "I don't carry that model." Even after I had it in my hand and showed him the Mel Pardue logo, he insisted that it wasn't it. When my fiance went in to buy me a Christmas present, she pointed out the Sentinel and commented on it's nice appearance. He actually said to her "Sorry honey- I'd know if that was the Sentinel- and it's not."(It was)

My friend inquired as to why this shop did not carry any Spydercos, and was told by the owner that he once carried them but stopped because they were junk. He asked me where I got my knives from, and I told him from the internet. He laughed and said "I bet those are nice, huh?" I tried (nicely) to explain to him that there was a huge online presence of knife enthusiasts- he couldn't have been less interested, though.

My friend and I tried not to laugh when we heard him tell another customer that different blade steels really didn't matter, that they were all stainless anyways.

Now I am all for supporting the local guy, and I did buy a couple of things from him, but his lack of knowledge and respect for his customers was a total turn-off. Notice I said "was"- I just got back from the mall- he's no longer in business.

I know what you mean though, it's very frustrating to me when a dealer knows less than I do. (and that's not much) I suppose it's just best to try and educate them. I can't help but wonder what would have happened with my local shop had the owner been exposed to this forum. Maybe he would have learned something. Or at least gained the ability to recognize an educated consumer- instead of just some other shmoe looking for a pocket knife.

Later-

Mike Turber · Jan 9, 1999

That is a great reason why internet dealers are to be patronized and not criticized. Seems most all internet dealers are much more knowledgeable than their storefront counterparts. This is of course not true for all store fronts but I have yet to walk into any store in the country and find a very knowledgeable sales person or owner for that matter. Manufacturers will see that the internet is the future of high end knife sales, consumer education and more.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com

CPRaymond · Jan 9, 1999

I recently had a bad experience at a local gun shop. The guy carries all of the Benchmade line, including the new Axis (G-10), as well as the Chris Reeves imitation and the fixed blade. The two folders were limited editions and selling fairly cheap (for a retail gun shop). The Axis was 105.00 and the Reeves was 95.00.

My goal was to trade a NIB mini-SOCOM for an Axis and an Eclipse. The owner took my knife into a back room to look at it (why, I have no idea). I heard it being flicked open repeatedly. He came back out and denied the trade, based on the fact that my new (never used to cut anything!) knife was dull and that it was not a quality knife (comapared to his Benchmades. H-A-H-A). I chalked it up to his low knife I.Q. and left. I examined my knife later and noticed that he obviously tried to cut through something he shouldn't have, as half of the edge was extremely dull. Talk about pissed! It took me quite a while to get the edge back to its original shape.

People like this irk the living doo-doo out of me, as they are selling something they know so little about. Don't try to trade knives at Arrington Police Distributors in Greensboro, NC unless you like dull blades!

Sorry for the long rant,
Chris

dmc · Jan 9, 1999

hey marco, too bad about your experience at the show. when i get to help my father out at shows, we are usually quite the opposite. dad keeps up on be benchmades, spydercos, columbia river etc via all the knife mags and for the microtechs and customs he directs them to me (thanks to all on the forum for keeping me up to the minute!). we will teach and point out details of any knife we sell. we have to be ready with an answer when someone asks why do the benchmades and microtechs cost more than most of the other knives. it is great to watch a knife knuts face light up when you ask if the sebenza clipped to his pocket is the new bg-42, it was the new bg-42 and he couldn't have been prouder to show it to me. i respectfully gave it a once over and thanked him for showing me the knife and then proceeded to sell him a new microtech!...better luck next show...dmc..ps the prices all around us today were very, very low..examples kershaw multitool $59, kershaw titanium starkey $63, bm large afck m2 steel $105..ouch, how do these guys stay in business!dmc

Kodiak PA · Jan 9, 1999

I'm used to the local shop owners not knowing much about their knives but it can still happen on the net. Today I had a head shaker when I was looking at the web site of one of the bigger knife dealers in the country and I noticed on their site they were selling the Spyderco Military in ATS-34 for about $130 or so. I e-mailed them to ask them if they meant they're carrying the Military in CPM440V. I got a quick response from their customer service rep who told me that Spyderco was having such a hard time producing the Military and they are not currently taking orders for them. In fact she said to me that Spyderco may decide not even to make them!

Huh? Got one from Howard Korn 2 months ago!

I think just about everyone has the Military in 440V and she must have been referring to the older model. I sent her an e-mail back recommending they take another look at their stock and perhaps talk with their distributor since they're probably losing a lot of business turning down Military orders. It will be interesting to see if they reply back to me.

On the other hand, if I wasn't a member of this forum, I may have bought an older model Military and wouldn't have had the same product.

Go figure.

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~Greg~

txlazer · Jan 9, 1999

marco,
was the show in houston this weekend?

ChrisH · Jan 10, 1999

Marco, I had the same experience last Saturday. I went to a gun & knife show and wanted to trade my new $180 Emerson Raven for a Benchmade Nimravus and an Axis Lock. Not only that but plus cash ($30). I wanted those knives and this guy would have made a killing off of me! His comment was "Who the heck is Emerson?" I explained the best I could to him about who Emerson was, etc. Eventually, with no luck, I bought a Stiff K.I.S.S. from him.

Will Fennell · Jan 10, 1999

Folks,
There is one thing that I have to remind myself, and all forumites should remember. The people that frequent this forum are some on average MUCH more up to date on new products, new materials, discountinuations, etc. Actually, members of this forum are some of the most 'cutlery educated' individuals around. Those of us in the industry, Manufacturers, distributors, and dealers all have to keep that in mind. But, the 'comsumers' around here should remember that too. I'm not making excuses for dealers that aren't up to speed on new products, and I'm sure not taking up for RUDE merchants, but keep in mind, ya'll are exposed to the latest and greatest info availible. Spread the knowledge to folks out there that want to learn, and don't look down on folks that aren't as 'connected' as you are.

I hope I'm not rambling too much, and I sure hope I haven't stepped on any toes, just thinking out loud. This is a great place to watch the knife world go to the 'next level'. Enjoy the ride....

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Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
President-EDI Knives
www.ediknives.com

marco · Jan 10, 1999

txlazer - i was at the show in mesquite this weekend. i'm not sur if there was one in houston or not. i think there is one next weekend in dallas at the market hall. should be a good one.
i understand that the people that frequent the forums here are generally much more knowledgeable than the average guy, but i just expect more knowledge from someone who is attempting to make a living at selling knives. good point mr. fennell - sometimes i take the knowledge that the generous people on this forum provide for granted. but you have to admit, watching someone explain that the G-10 scales are really aluminum, is kind of odd!

any other stories?

marco

Mike Turber · Jan 10, 1999

Will,

I agree to a point with what you are saying but if you are going to make a living selling something you should know more than most. If I walk into a store and ask to see a Police or Sentinel, I expect the salesperson to know what I am talking about. They should have issues of Blade, TK and KI flowing into their mailbox each month and they should be here learning.

I have been in sales all my life and was offered the National Sales Trainer position at Tandy (a company who needs one) and my primary focus to all my salespeople was product knowledge. Product knowledge is only part of the equation but if you talk to a salesperson and they don't know jack you tend to walk out of the store regardless of their product offering ro price.

Internet dealers are the best educated salespeople in our industry and I have a plan for manufacturers to make education a primary part of their offerings.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com

Tenbeers · Jan 10, 1999

here are my 2 favorites;
1.at a show about ten yrs ago: guy has a booth set up for sharpening, he is sharpening a gerber mk1 for a fellow standing in front of me, this is what he was telling the waiting customer; "yeah, i carried one of these in 'nam, i had over 60 confirmed kills with one of these".
2.at a show about 12 yrs ago: dealer has large gerber display, current(then) and non-current models. i ask to see a gerber tac2, he hands it to me and says,"this was the most popular knife in vietnam". the tac2 wasn't made until the 80's. if this had been a regular dealer i might not have been surprised,but this guy had a huge gerber display, every gerber then made and some protos and early gerber pieces. he was mr.gerber as far as that show went!
unreal, Ten

Tenbeers · Jan 10, 1999

oh yes, one more: i'm at a show, the dealer has a display of martial arts weapons, guy beside me is looking at nunchucs, dealer tells him,"that's how bruce lee died, he killed himself while swinging them moonchucs"!
oh no, i am not a knife geek snob, those guys were idiots!!
Ten

guinness · Jan 10, 1999

I was at a mostly gun and a few knives show in Pensacola. One guy had a decent looking table and I was scanning it. He saw me looking at a BM Brend Talon and said "you like them Benchmades?" I said "yeah they seem to be pretty well made" He goes "hell yeah them there are handmade customs. They are called Benchmades cause they're all hand made on a bench" I almost fell down. Takes all kinds I guess.....jeff

Mike Turber · Jan 10, 1999

That probably explains why he still has a BM Brend Talon on his table

It has been discontiuned for a good while now. In fact you probably should of bought it

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com

Mike Turber · Jan 11, 1999

Also Bruce Lee is not dead. I saw him just today having lunch at Burger King with Elvis.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com

SALMON · Jan 11, 1999

I used to be a local gun & knife show enthusiast, now the only reason I go is to see if they have the knives I've not yet had a chance to handle. I support local dealers and show attendees, but to find a truly educated source for info. I rely on these forums. The last show I attended, I asked one of the larger knife dealers there if he had any EDI Genesis', it looked as if I was ordering tai food at a pizza parlor. I know EDI has not been around for all that long, but I expect a dealer to have at least heard of them. I then asked about Microtechs and he told me he didn't sell them because they were extremely overpriced...he pushed his Paragons, which is fine. I always leave the shows feeling I know more about knives than the people selling them...then again I feel the same way about buying tools at Home Depot.

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Mr Blonde · Jan 11, 1999

I used to buy knives at a store where I was initially impressed by the quantity of knives they displayed, but I stopped buying knives there after I had to tell the "house knife expert" salesman (for whom I had to wait to come and show me a knife) what sheath to put on a fixed blade. The sheath was made of kydex! Now I travel a bit further to Amsterdam to a little knife shop that sells all of the high quality production knives and even some custom knives (which is very rare in Holland, I think), and the sales staff really know their business. I really don't mind the extra travel for a good knife shop with a well informed staff.

Sal Glesser · Jan 11, 1999

Mr. Blonde,
Would that be the "Old Man"? They are the kind of knife dealer every knife aficienado would appreciate. Knowledgable, interested, they have inventory, variety and they care. Please pardon the "sales pitch", extra effort needs to be recognized.
sal

DonL · Jan 12, 1999

Most every gun and knife show I've been to in my area the last year or so has been the same old collection of moldy camo and MRE vendors, various gun shops with a gun show presence (no complaints here), and the same several vendors selling Buck, Gerber, Benchmade, Spyderco, Cold Steel, and asst. cheap crappy stuff. The last show, however, had a dealer with some nice high end stuff. An assortment of fixed and folding Reeves, a couple Crawfords, a nice pair of Tighes, several Randalls, an actual Ken Onion, a Terzoula, and I can't remember what else. I remarked to a friend of mine, "Hey, check it out, some honest to God Sebenzas, and look at all the other nice stuff." The dealer put on his instant attitude and snapped, "Yeah, fine, how many do you want to buy?" Everybody around his table, including us, went back to basically being ignored while he jawed with a couple guys behind the table who probably paid several hundred dollars apiece for the privilege of being his pal. My friend winked at me and said, "How many Reeves do you have now anyways?" I replied, "Three, plus a Dozier, and a Rinaldi and a Busse on the way." The jerk's ears instantly perked up and he started paying more attention to us, since he came over and oozed love and knife-brotherhood all over us. He was patronizing enough to be pathetic. Now he wouldn't leave us alone. He smelled money, like a shark smells blood a mile away. Now, this didn't seem to be one of those guys who are tired of trying to explain why folder X from this maker is worth ten times more than the cheap production stuff two rows over, and finally finds another knife afficianado. No, this guy was just some dork with a p*ss-poor attitude unless he was going to take your money. Reminded me of a used car salesman in a cheap polyester plaid jacket. Ick. We finally got away by saying that we'd like his card, and that I have a year-end bonus coming that I'd love to spend with him when it comes in. My first run-in with a high end dealer in many years left me with a bad taste in my mouth, like burping yesterday's sauerkraut and kielbasa. Blech.

[This message has been edited by DonL (edited 11 January 1999).]