Gun & Knife Show Ignorance

Gun & Knife shows away from the BIG cities are very interesting. The selections aren't as great be it guns, knives, or accessories. But sometimes you can be surprised at the treasures folks will display without really knowing what they have. You just have to look close and already know what a good price is...

More to the point, I've found these shows are a great place to meet regional makers. I met Guy Hielscher of Alliance, NE at a show in Rapid City, SD. I liked his damascus work and ended up commissioning a knife. When I was in California I met a lot of makers whose work I admired. Nice conversation and nice pieces. The oddest place I've met makers has been at the Sturgis Motorcycle ralley. I bought a knife from Melvin Dunn there.



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-=[Bob]=-

Bald is beautiful! Rub a dome for luck today!

 
I used to sell knives at gun shows. I understand the feelings of customers when I would hear another dealer give false information. It was even worse when the potential customer was gullible enough to buy into the stories. It is not hard to keep current on knive when you have a genuine interest in them, use them, subscribe to magazines, and read these forums.
But. what used to kill me were the jerks who would come up and ask to see a knife and whack the spine of the knife on the table several times (without asking) then run their thumb along the edge, cut themselves and then put the knife down and walk off. I didnt mind showing knives and talking about them, but that would piss me off. Then there was the jerk who took a BM 44 balisong out of an potential customers hand and started flicking it around wildly, put it down on the table and asked how much it was. When I told him it was $75 (with a beginner's butterfly knife book by Jeff Imada) he proclaimed that my price was "WAY too much for that". The other guy looked at him like he was some kind of idiot and bought the knife when I wiped the idiot's ignorance off the handles. Then there are the hagglers. Some people would come up and ask "What's your best price on this one?" or offer $5 to $10 off of the price immediately. Ex. I was selling a large AFCK SBT for $90. Guy comes up and says "I'll give you $80 for it." I say no sorry, and the guy leaves. He comes back not 10 minutes later and puts $80 on the table and is insulted when I told him the knife was $90. Or the ones that say "Theres a guy selling these over there for X dollars cheaper. Can you beat his price?" I don't know about the other dealers, but we would always scout the show right off and see the prices on other dealers knives to be sure this wasn't going to happen.
Sorry for the rant, but lets just remember that for every jerk dealer out there, there are an equal amount of annoying people who pull the stuff I just explained.
Phil
BTW I no longer sell at shows. There is more pleasure in buying knives for ME.
 
Mike, I know what you mean. This guy was asking $175 for the Brend Talon while an AFCK was sitting right next to it for $85. Thing that killed me was he MUST have known a thing or two more about BM than he let on....OR than he suspected I knew. The condescendence was sickening. There's always the next table though, and we always go just for something to do. Like many others have said here, you never know when you'll find a gem, even if its NOT a Talon at $175 ;-) jeff
 
Jeff, you hit it right on. The condescending attitude drives me nuts. I'm admittedly no expert, but when someone decides I'm the idiot because I'm on the "other" side of the table and then proceeds to tell me that all Seal team "Operators" carry Frost Cutlery Bowies I get a little angry.
I tend to think that the dealers expect anyone who actually buys their garbage to be idiots so they like to have fun with anyone who shows an interest. I say this about the carnival type Gun & Knife shows, not serious Knife shows.
on the other side, I had the pleasure of attending the east coast custom show a few years ago, and I couldn't have been more impressed. Granted, these were mainly custom makers, but there were several sellers there as well. I met a gentleman there from "Damascus USA" who took the time to explain a great deal to me, even though looking back I asked some real dumb questions I will always remember that. BTW, I'm embarassed to say that I forgot his name. I know he was a Medical Doctor, anybody know this man?
All my ramblings do lead to a point, People who are actually interested in the product show a lot more class than those who just want your money.
Tim
 
Next time try explaining to the dealer what you know: he might give you a really good deal in exchange for the info. They will probably look at it as education rather than correction. I learned knives from behind a gunshow table and I learned most from my customers. I always appreciated it. If you don't know how to date Case knives, ask a 70 yr. old collector at a gunshow. You don't see many people of that age on these forums.
Maybe we're not as smart as we think. :-)
Jim
 
I've just started doing some knife and gun shows here in the last year after several years off. One thing I can say, some things don't change. Some customers are irritating, and some dealers should have stayed home. One thing I like about dealing through the net is that I don't get the died in the wool hagglers, especially like the ones that have been back year after year to the same show, and have it down to a science. You meet a lot of great folks at shows too, but sometimes they're hard to remember after the jerks.
This last year I was set up at a show in Janesville, WI, and had the table in back of me totally empty the first day of the three day knife show. I finally ended up putting out some old prints I had with to cover the table. But, when he did show up the next day, the guy puts out a display of hundred or so cheap italian auto's, a few decent factory models, some odds and ends of custom knive he had collected. On the end of the table was a display case full of high end, and I mean 'high end' custom auto's. Charles Dake, Ken Steigerwalt, Pardue..... Anyway, this guy gets set up, then goes, "do you mind keeping an eye out for me?" No problem I figure, give me a chance to try out few pieces on his table...... well, he spent 3/4 of the rest of the show away from the table!. I'd try to watch out for customers of my own, only to be endlessly pestered by folks asking how much his stuff was, and if it was legal to sell the auto's there....

Maybe what got me as much as anything was the sheer number of those cheap italian stilletos he was selling at $50 a pop. Reminded me too much of shows back in Illinois several years back when I was set up next to the Cold Steel distributer from hell. This guy would literally lean over and push a knife into the hands of someone who was looking at what I had put out on the table. and the endless line of b.s. that flowed out of him was nothing short of amazing. The only thing that salvaged the day was that after spending the whole day telling folks how great his Cold Steel Trailmaster's and bolo's were, he turned around and bought a custom camp knife I had with me for himself ;-)

Still, I wouldn't miss the shows. go figure

madpoet
 
Madpoet (Mel):

I liked the way Melvin Dunn set up his table at the Sturgis Ralley. Keep in mind that those selling knives were scattered all over among all the other types of wares being pushed (biker leather, T-shirts, jewlery, food, etc.). He had glass covered cases showing one each of what he had available and had a baldor setup for blade sharpening. Folks would stop to see him sharpen someone else's blade (for a small fee), then effortlessly slice through a double length page of free hanging newsprint. Folks were generally polite and would ask to see (as I did) a particular knife. He'd quickly indicate the blade steel. e.g. D2, CPM440V, etc. and that the stag handles were available in different tints. Once you indicated you wanted to make a purchase, he'd pull out several of that model so you could pick the sambar stag color and handle that felt best to you. He'd then put a leather lanyard on your selection and mate it to a nice thick pouch sheath. He had ads in all the Sturgis flyers with an offer of a free commemorative stamp saying "Sturgis '9x". That last touch is what reeled in the bikers. A quality blade with the makers stamp and year plus on the reverse side a commemorative Sturgis stamp. Folks invariable bought then or came back with their significant other in tow to close a sale. He had his knives and sheaths in quantity stored just out of sight below the table and behind him. My impression in watching things for better than 90 minutes during my two visits was that he moved a LOT of Kansas steel at the week long ralley! And undoubtedly did better in this one week event than he would have attending several dozen weekend gun shows. Give him a call and do a sanity check on how the Ralley has worked for him. Usually there are only two or three custom makers there but maybe a dozen "dealers" or more folks selling commercial (and commercial commemoratives like Boker, Harley-Davidson, etc) knives among other wares. You're not far from western South Dakota... might be something to look into!

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-=[Bob]=-

Bald is beautiful! Rub a dome for luck today!


[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 12 January 1999).]
 
Man...I hear ya about customers with odd attitudes! I sell swords, and every year I get a guy who tells me that he will be receiving a katana made specially for him by a Japanese master....usually because he saved the life of a Yakusa gang member's daughter.
The part I don't get is how come this story is so common.....is there a movie or a book out with that theme in it which inspires these curiously similar stories?

The other one is the martial artist who is the "grand master" or whatever in (usually) ninjitsu. This summer, I got the only "accredited" Scottish swordsman (that is...the original Scottish style of fighting ala Rob Roy!) in North America. I was so flabergasted that I forgot to ask "Darryl" who got him the acreditation. 2 months later he called me and I finally found out that it was his own school which had acredited him. He was looking for help in opening it! Nice kid, but obviously missing something in the self image department.

Bill
http://www.southtower.on.ca


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I did gun shows for over 5 years before turning to wholesale and manufacturing. I must say the dealers I met did try but rather than tell the truth they would make up some really interesting stories when they did not know the answer to a customers question. Most of them dealt with the laws regarding knives but the one that took the cake was a dealer who told a customer that his "Benchmade" knock offs where not knock offs. He said Benchmade started there business in the Philipines and then moved to TaiWan before finally opening a US plant. He tried to prove it by saying "why do you think they call them Bali-Song knives? And "why do you think they used to be called Pacific cutlery?". Well I just educated the customer and got the business. I must say that his story sounded convincing if you did not know any better.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com





 
WOW!! Really! You guys think you know more than the professionals? What hubris! What arrogance!

Unfortunately, it is absolutely true. I've never been to a knife show, but have bought many big ticket items over the years. In every case save one, I knew more than the 'professionals.' Please don't think that I believe myself of superior intellect; rather the salespeople are ignorant.

I helped my daughter buy a truck a few years ago. Went to the dealers, got brochures, got some car mags, and read the articles, checked the models out in Consumer Reports.
With that tiny amount of homework, I was light years ahead of the salesmen. For example, I asked what effect on the rear axle ratio would optional larger tires have. I got blank stares, one guy said it would give a higher (lower numerically) effective axle ratio, and quoted what the effective axle ratio would be. It turns out I went to a tire shop, and the bigger wheels and tires are actually the same circumfrance as the smaller ones, so there would be no effect whatsoever.

You should research any new purchase, especially if major. Look it up in the library and on the net; go in prepared, and accept the fact that you will probably know more about the product than the salesperson does. Walt
 
Hey everybody, I've been away for awhile (computer got fried) but it is great to see all the new threads!
One of the last few loca knife shows I attended I found a dealer that had a used Spyderco Merlin that was in pretty good shape and when I inquired about a price he told me that it was a Harpy with G-10 scales and he would take 85$ for it .The fellow had a huge amount of stock (new and used) and it could have been an honest mistake but I just did'nt feel like discussing it with him and told him no thanks. That situation made me wonder though because I'm not the only one that has had the same problem with him. The fellow has been at a show or two since then and he still has the knife! Maybe I'll talk to him about it at the next show.
woody

[This message has been edited by woody (edited 13 January 1999).]
 
We have a show here in Austin once a month. I always walk through and see what might sneak in. For the most part, the knife guys do pretty well. But then I weed most of the jerks out pretty quick. United Cutlery on the table? I keep walking. There are a few good custom makers and dealers I see from time to time. We do have one or two guys that show up that really are pretty good. One of them is even a cutomer of Mike's. I asked him point blank if he bought anything from Mike Turber. He just smiled and asked "Oh? You know Mike?"
smile.gif
I can always count on a good discussion of the latest trends with him. He recognizes me now and always pulls out his latest find to show me. Yeah. I normally buy from him rather than most of the others. Picked up several autos from him. Gonna push him to pick up some of the Chyennes next time I see him.

On the other extream, I had a cart dealer in San Antonio who couldn't find the Pinnical when I asked to see it. Had to point to it. And when I showed him my small Sabenza as the knife that BM was tring to knock off with the Pinnical, he was beside himself. He got a small education from me that day. All of it second hand from what I have learned on-line from my friends here.
smile.gif




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Bubba
 
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