Guys that have passed the ABS performance test, a question please?

Slack belt to a burr...(keeping the edge cool)...then finishing with a worn Norton Fine India.
 
I wouldn't have guessed a convex apex, but it makes sense. I am surprised that you guys use belts though. Definitely would have thought you'd finish with stones.
 
Russ said he finished with a worn India.
The word "convex" might be a little incorrect.
My edge before sharpening is only at about .015" or maybe .010" thick.
Like I've seen Don Hanson say once, he wants it almost sharp before he sharpens it.
The entire height of the sharpening edge, on mine at least, is only about .100" tall maximum. And probably quite a bit less.
Yes, it's sharpened on a slack belt, but there is so little area being sharpened, that by eye, it could be defined as flat.
Very easy to then straighten out on a stone or re-sharpen.


Strigamort said:
I wouldn't have guessed a convex apex, but it makes sense. I am surprised that you guys use belts though. Definitely would have thought you'd finish with stones.
Click to expand...
 
I also use a 1" belt, but only a 220-320 grit, then a ceramic rod & leather strop. Like Karl said, almost sharp before ya sharpen it.

Had a guy test with me recently, his edge was so thick it almost could not cut the free hanging rope. Took 4 tries.

The bend test is where most fail. Get the blade thin where it will flex and ya have a better chance.
 
I know it's not supposed to work, but I used the infamous paper wheels after setting bevels with a 220 belt.

As stated above edge geometry is very important.

Remember, test your HT and geometry extensively before you visit your MS (I made and tested eight knives).

That will go a long way in relieving the stress that goes along with the actual test.

Good luck, have fun!

Greg
 
Greg, the paper wheels work fine, I use a leather wheel with white compound to polish the edge on most of my knives. I like that hair popin scary sharp! But that polished edge does not last quite as long as a toothier less polished edge.
 
Karl B. Andersen said:
Russ said he finished with a worn India.
The word "convex" might be a little incorrect.
My edge before sharpening is only at about .015" or maybe .010" thick.
Like I've seen Don Hanson say once, he wants it almost sharp before he sharpens it.
The entire height of the sharpening edge, on mine at least, is only about .100" tall maximum. And probably quite a bit less.
Yes, it's sharpened on a slack belt, but there is so little area being sharpened, that by eye, it could be defined as flat.
Very easy to then straighten out on a stone or re-sharpen.
Click to expand...

Doh! Missed that.

Karl, do you measure the angle?
 
Well guys to be completely honest I was really curious but I also read something once that someone said "No "v"edge has ever passed the ABS performace test"..Of course I don't believe even half of what I read on the net(and I dang sure didn't believe that) but thinking about that "comment" I just wanted the word right from the horses mouth..Thanks guys, keep it coming!!
I personally have been testing knives with flat grinds and edges about .010 thick before setting the edge and finishing on stones and have had no trouble at all so far. Im far from done testing though..
 
No. If it's a large bowie/chopper/thing, I'll go a bit obtuse.
If it's a hunter I lean the knife spine into the belt a bit more.
If it's a caper, more acute yet.

I hate to change the subject much, but as soon as the guy who buys the knife starts to sharpen it, it becomes HIS!! edge. Whatever I created has, to a significant degree, been changed.
I try to create an edge that nearly anyone can resharpen by just trying to shave the top off of a stone.
If a person gets to it pretty quickly before it gets dull, you can sharpen a knife on the top edge of your truck window!!



Strigamort said:
Karl, do you measure the angle?
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Karl. A ceramic coffee mugs (the non-glazed ring on the bottom) works pretty well in a pinch too.

Kentucky, many experienced sharpeners say that you generally get a slightly convex bevel when using stones. This is due to the inability of the hand to maintain a perfectly flat angle.
 
Strigamort said:
Kentucky, many experienced sharpeners say that you generally get a slightly convex bevel when using stones. This is due to the inability of the hand to maintain a perfectly flat angle.
Click to expand...
That's true but not exactly what they were talking about. I sharpen on stones and no probably not perfectly flat but its not too far off either..Its certainly not convex by any stretch of the imagination.
 
I guess it depends on how you define flat and convex. I think multifaceted has a place as well.

I know that what I get from the edge pro is different from the stones in terms of bevel geometry.

Another consideration is the difference between a production blade and a handmade/custom blade where the bevel may have a much shorter shoulder (thinner behind the edge). Production pieces, from my experience, typically have a more obtuse geometry, so more work (usually) goes into the reprofiling process, almost always necessary to maximize the steels performance. A taller overall bevel has more opportunity to convex while sharpening than a very short shoulder.

Getting way off topic here. My apologies.
 
A "worn" India stone has a much finer...almost polished surface, and will produce a fine, but still somewhat
toothy edge that will repeatably last longer in testing and in the field than a polished edge.I've been using the same 1 X 2 X 8"
stone since the mid 80s, even though i have several other types and sizes.

When using a fine belt, it's critical to keep the edge as cool as possible, because the that apex, which is the edge,
is super thin and very easily overheated...ruining the edge's temper, and it will be so small an area
that you won't see it.
 
Kentucky said:
...I also read something once that someone said "No "v"edge has ever passed the ABS performace test"....
Click to expand...

Whenever I read a statement including words like "ever", "never", "always" etc, I usually take the author's thoughts with a very large grain of salt. Generally speaking, someone who claims only one way is always right... probably just hasn't tried enough ways. ;)
 
Speaking of over heating the edge... There was a study done, I think, by a German fellow where the apex temp was somehow measured. The actual temp was very high. High enough to destroy the temper, but sharpening by means of powered equipment has, obviously, been done successfully for a very long time. It's possible that that part of the apex abrades away quickly leaving the good, but more blunt, steel behind. Sort of like a wire edge I guess.

Burned edges have been a fairly consistent problem with some knives, especially with Elmax it seems.

The findings were posted in the maintenance forum somewhere. Not sure if anyone cares about this, but I'll look for the link.
 
james terrio said:
Whenever I read a statement including words like "ever", "never", "always" etc, I usually take the author's thoughts with a very large grain of salt. Generally speaking, someone who claims only one way is always right... probably just hasn't tried enough ways. ;)
Click to expand...

I couldent agree more..
 
Strigamort said:
Speaking of over heating the edge... There was a study done, I think, by a German fellow where the apex temp was somehow measured. The actual temp was very high. High enough to destroy the temper, but sharpening by means of powered equipment has, obviously, been done successfully for a very long time. It's possible that that part of the apex abrades away quickly leaving the good, but more blunt, steel behind. Sort of like a wire edge I guess.

Burned edges have been a fairly consistent problem with some knives, especially with Elmax it seems.

The findings were posted in the maintenance forum somewhere. Not sure if anyone cares about this, but I'll look for the link.
Click to expand...

Roman Landes. I have one his presentations on DVD.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top