Hair cutting scissors sharpening help

FortyTwoBlades said:
Just curious--why wouldn't you be able to simply strop a set of stylist's shears? I wouldn't attempt to sharpen them for someone without knowing what I was doing...but what's so mystical about shears? I know that we're dealing with a hollow-ground backside and you generally shouldn't ever touch that side of the geometry but wouldn't simple light stropping with polishing compounds be able to produce the razor-like fine edge you'd be looking for without altering the blade geometry?
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For touch up, strop will work as you keep the cutting edge angle mostly intact. Lower the angle when strop on soft-backing, then finish with strop on glass at the original angle. Watch for scratches.

For sharpening, it will takes a long while to abrade enough metal by using strop while avoid making edge angle more obtuse (undesirable geometry). You need to sharpen the whole blade, eventhough most of the time the tip needs work.

I am with Red-Green's: 'if it ain't broke, you are not trying :)'. No mystical nor must learn from a great master, just stay focus and try no to screw up a piece of jewelery. btw - in event of screwed up, polish it shiny and pass the bucks - just joking :p
 
Interesting thread. I talked with the woman who cuts my hair. She said her shears need to be sharpened about every three months or so. I don't know how many pairs she has. I believe she pays about $40 a pair to have them sharpened. As a consumer I know the difference between a sharp pair of of shears and a pair of snip-ow, snip-ow shears. Based upon the cost, I'd guess it takes 1-3 hours to clean, sharpen, and adjust a pair of shears.
For those of you who do this professionally, how many different adjustments do you need to make to sharpen and tune a pair of shears?
 
bluntcut said:
For touch up, strop will work as you keep the cutting edge angle mostly intact. Lower the angle when strop on soft-backing, then finish with strop on glass at the original angle. Watch for scratches.

For sharpening, it will takes a long while to abrade enough metal by using strop while avoid making edge angle more obtuse (undesirable geometry). You need to sharpen the whole blade, eventhough most of the time the tip needs work.

I am with Red-Green's: 'if it ain't broke, you are not trying :)'. No mystical nor must learn from a great master, just stay focus and try no to screw up a piece of jewelery. btw - in event of screwed up, polish it shiny and pass the bucks - just joking :p
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I'm thinking it would be possible to do maintenance sharpening using emery compound as the initial stage and moving through green, white, and plain leather.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
I'm thinking it would be possible to do maintenance sharpening using emery compound as the initial stage and moving through green, white, and plain leather.
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This Thanksgiving gather, I will ask my relatives to give me a couple old beat-up 5.0" Joewell shears (1 premier & 1 black cobalt) to tinker around. Sharpening via strop seem doable. For these vg-x steel shears, I plan to use: 12,6,3,1,0.5,0.25,0.1 um diamond paste then bare leather. Will try cbn, poly diamond, alumina and other stuff if mono diamond sucks.

Well, I am on the hook to sharpen a few production Joewell shears tomorrow & fri. I'll get a free hair cut in return, yay!

Kamisori sales guy managed to convinced my relatives that only Kamisori certified sharpeners can sharpen their mystical shears <= will see how they are willing to pay 40$/ per touch-up every 3months :barf:
 
The only thing worse than dull shears, are ones too highly refined. Just like knives that are polished to HHT point, they have no teeth. Without teeth, the shear just pushes the hair instead of cutting it. You are looking for absolutely no slippage.

Yeah, there's no big mystery about sharpening hair shears. You only have to get about five things perfect. Even among people who sharpen shears, there aren't very many who get it right.

There are hair shear forums. That would probably be a good place to start gathering information.

There is no substitute for learning from someone who knows exactly what perfect is, because there is no substitute for experience either.
 
I touched-up 2 shears by stropped on 1.0->0.5um diamond charged leather, minus 3 degrees bevel with light pressure. It worked great! Took 20 minutes since I was tentative & check quite often - must not round the edge otherwise it will becomes 1+ hr front & back reprofile job.

I tried to fix a dinged up shears 1/4" tip (quite puzzled at the edge deformation - maybe from sandy hairs) using strop started at 12um, gave that up after 10 minutes, too slow and abrade too much on the edge belly (0.5" near tip). End up used, dmt E -> EE -> spyderco UF -> strop 1+0.5um -> deburr (on back side) with EE. 30 minutes job.

Sharpened a couple sub $100 shears, simple geometry & high toughness steels (I don't know & don't really care) - done in 10 minutes.

I sharpened a $60 promo (50% off) Kamisori shears. The barber tried sharpen it himself, when it gone dull after only 2 wks of usage, using 320grit SiC stone. Well, took me 30 minutes to reprofile (fixed the sharpening damages). Something ain't right, ats-34 steel should on par with vg1 & vg10 in edge retention.

Came home empty handed. lol - some sharpener van guy used a belt grinder broke ~ 1" off the tip of the black cobalt beater shears, since it's not the first time, hence bye bye shears & sharpener.

More and more, I notice that many barbers (my relatives include) buy these cheap $50 shears (micro serrated) which is servicable for 6+months. Soon there will be $30 disposable professional (oxymoron) hair shears...
 
grizzled gizzard said:
The only thing worse than dull shears, are ones too highly refined. Just like knives that are polished to HHT point, they have no teeth. Without teeth, the shear just pushes the hair instead of cutting it. You are looking for absolutely no slippage.

Yeah, there's no big mystery about sharpening hair shears. You only have to get about five things perfect. Even among people who sharpen shears, there aren't very many who get it right.

There are hair shear forums. That would probably be a good place to start gathering information.

There is no substitute for learning from someone who knows exactly what perfect is, because there is no substitute for experience either.
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Hi Grizzled Gizzard. I realize this is an old post, but I am curious about who the good people to learn from are in your opinion. Looking at different trainings right now. Thanks for your time.
 
bluntcut said:
I touched-up 2 shears by stropped on 1.0->0.5um diamond charged leather, minus 3 degrees bevel with light pressure.
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I just finished sharpening 3 pair of shears for a gal that doesn't have a lot of money, and were kind of insistent that I try. There were actually 5 pair, but I could see that 2 of them are semi high end, so I flat refused those two.
The 3 that I did needed mostly cleaning first. She had something like gorilla glue stuck on one pair, so solvent had to be used on that pair first. After that it was mostly cleaning with alcohol.
After cleaning, I lightly stropped, then called it good. I tested by cutting the ends off of some of my own hair. The cuts were clean and easy, so I'm calling them all done. :cool:
 
Bill Hoffman said:
Ordinary household scissors are easy to sharpen and any competent knife
sharpener can figure them out.

High end hairdressing shears are a different beast altogether. You can EASILY
screw up a $1000.00 pair of shears in a heartbeat. It's not a DIY project, you
really need professional training and a sizeable investment in equipment. Nobody
is more unhappy that a stylist whose shears you've just ruined and they will
spread your bad rep faster than you can imagine.

Bill
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Yeah, normal scissors are easy to sharpen, I can get them to slice paper like a knife after some thinning and re-profiling, even the cheap office stainless scissors. But not a 100$+ hair cutting shears.
 
Recently, I sharpened a defected Joewell - where there is a gap in the 1/4" tip. Can't bend blades back because they would break. Well, after few failed quick fixes, I took blades apart; flattened blades's back until no more gap; sharpened as usual. I mentioned this because, sometime the shear seem to be cutting well but the last 1/8" inch at the tip. For me, ultimate consistency test for hair shear would be cutting damp toilet paper. Snip the damp/wet toilet paper, then pull shear back, if no tear - congrats, otherwise more sharpening to do.

Ballenxj said:
I just finished sharpening 3 pair of shears for a gal that doesn't have a lot of money, and were kind of insistent that I try. There were actually 5 pair, but I could see that 2 of them are semi high end, so I flat refused those two.
The 3 that I did needed mostly cleaning first. She had something like gorilla glue stuck on one pair, so solvent had to be used on that pair first. After that it was mostly cleaning with alcohol.
After cleaning, I lightly stropped, then called it good. I tested by cutting the ends off of some of my own hair. The cuts were clean and easy, so I'm calling them all done. :cool:
Click to expand...
 
bluntcut said:
For me, ultimate consistency test for hair shear would be cutting damp toilet paper. Snip the damp/wet toilet paper, then pull shear back, if no tear - congrats, otherwise more sharpening to do.
Click to expand...
I will have to remember to try that. Thanks for the heads up. :thumbup:
 
Ice drill edges are hard to sharpen perfect. If 1 millimeter of the edge is not 100% perfect, the ice drill will not drill ice at all. It just spins around on the ice.

Shears are like that, they shall cut hair. Hair can be very thin. My hair is for example 0,05 mm in diameter. All hairs must be cut. If one hair is not cut the customer will get pain when the scissor drag the hair root out of his head. No customer accept that.

I think that shears are about 10 times more difficult to sharpen compared to razors.

Thomas
 
I've been selling and refurbishing beauty shears for a long time. My customers trust me with their expensive hand forged tools. I still occasionally get a call back when something isn't quite right. Thankfully a rare occurrence but it happens. I go back and make it right. Never destroyed a shear.

I also sharpen a ton of knives. They are child's play compared to hair shears.

I had to invest many thousands of dollars and countless hours training with the pros to learn shears sharpening and tuning. This training is always ongoing and expensive. The equipment doesn't come cheap.

Beauty tool sharpeners are great folks who get together and share tips and techniques freely.

There is always something new to learn or to share.

Do not try this at home.
 
Well I'm a experienced knife sharpener. I got my stylist 1000 dollars Japanese Shears to attemp sharpening today. He is a very rich guy very high end saloon.

So I disassembled and took a look, they are Zoewell brand
Taking a look (he gave me two that he as actually throwing away) one has a convex edge and the other has a 45 degree one and flat grind on the other side, both have flat grinds on the back.

So it's actually a Knife, it's a Yanagiba sushi knife. It was not completely dull so I started with a 4k stone then 6k finished on a 8k.

The 45 degree I kept the angle flat and firm checking with a loupe. The convex o pushed the blade towards me and did gentle moves and turned up so I could follow the convex, took a little more care on the tip do it didn't bend. After that. Stroped on balsa with diamond paste and bovine with no compound. Got really sharp hair popping. Gave back to him, no charge. He cut my hair as an exchange and he said it was better then the factory edge, mirror polished and refined straight cuts, no pulling hair and stuff and with enough bite. And he wants me to do the blades for the other 45 hairdressers he has employed. I'm. Not a professional sharpener that's a hobby. I'm a chef and restaurant owner. I live in Brazil and I'll charge 60 bucks each.

Here is a diagram of the maker. No burs were formerd just refinement on higher grit stones and strop. Glides thought hair.

Here is the blades geometry

http://www.joewell.co.jp/e_spec_3.html

Here is some other pretty high end Japanese scissors getting sharpened by hand on Japan

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=X5Pg-fBJScc

Not to much difference from a Yanagiba, actually it's just a small sushi knife just make sure to dont bend the blade lirrle pressure check the tension after assembly and you are done. They are hair popping sharp after I was done

It's a knife by the end of the day a blade with an angle of 45 degrees or a convex.. This convex are exactly like the Masakage knives I Use so I'm kind used to sharpening them it was quick and effective. Tested and approved.

Of course I'm. No magician and can get better then that. But I'm. Really good at sharpening and at this attempt at shear worked out great. Just took care, went slowly, watching thought the loop for consistency and small grinds and went perfect.. The tension was correct dropping the blade it didn't closed it was the the right point just before closing it all the way up. So I think I did a pretty good job. I'll ta a pic of the blade and upload the on the next post I'll disassemble it

O and yes, he gave me the 2 blades as a gift and already brought 10 home for sharpening. The other guy who was sharpening was using machine. I could see burn marks on the still probably affecting the heat treatment and no sharp enough
 
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Radical said:
I've been selling and refurbishing beauty shears for a long time. My customers trust me with their expensive hand forged tools. I still occasionally get a call back when something isn't quite right. Thankfully a rare occurrence but it happens. I go back and make it right. Never destroyed a shear.

I also sharpen a ton of knives. They are child's play compared to hair shears.

I had to invest many thousands of dollars and countless hours training with the pros to learn shears sharpening and tuning. This training is always ongoing and expensive. The equipment doesn't come cheap.

Beauty tool sharpeners are great folks who get together and share tips and techniques freely.

There is always something new to learn or to share.

Do not try this at home.
Click to expand...

K800
Here it is. Cell phone pics at night, light reflects but you can get and idea.

Strip was done 45 degrees on the edge and flat on the other side 10 to 15 passes on the balsa and after on the leather. It's cutting like a mutha**** razor sharp whiteout forming any burrs more of a refinement o finer grit stones

I would never put a hand made blade like this trough any machine. He actually throw them out and buy new ones when it's done can you believe that? I said give it to me let me give it a go on the sharpening stones your are throwing it away anyway so if it doesn't work no harm done






 
Ballenxj said:
Thanks for your input. If that guy wants to throw any more away, send some my way. They would be great for practice. ;)
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Yep he can throw in my trash. I took it back to him. And he gave me a hair cut for free ( about 100 dollars in Brazil money) he said they were great and gave me 2 more for sharpening so I guess I succeed. Cool :D
 
The biggest thing with scissors or shears of any sort is to make sure that the backs are kept hollow to ensure proper shearing action is taking place without any gap between the edges as they glide past one another. Otherwise it's just a matter of proper angle management and edge refinement.
 
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