Handle Attachement Strength - Using Micarta Pins vs. Steel Pins

LightGuy

LightGuy

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Sep 12, 2010
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I have seen enough now to know that I must have a Fiddleback. The only issue is, I am one of those people that wants a very tough knife throughout (probably obsess about it more than I really need to...), which includes strong handles (micarta/G10) that are firmly attached to the tang. I haven't had any blades that use micarta to pin the handles to the tang, it's always been steel pins of some sort. So I don't have any experience with the Fiddleback method of using micarta/G10 pins.

My question is - does using micarta pins vs. steel reduce the strength of the handle attachment? For instance, during batoning, light chopping, etc., would I need to worry more with the micarta pins vs. a knife with steel pins? Would I need to be more careful about striking the handle side of the knife (say to free it loose) than I would with a knife with steel pins?

I absolutely use my knives - no safe queens here. I look for ways to use them, and for stout little fixed blades I use (but not abuse) them fairly hard, and have never had a problem. I just want to see if I would need to take some special precautions with using one of these blades.

Thanks in advance for your input!

-Rich
 
I am hoping to get a Fiddleback bushcrafter soon and I actually have the same question! Thanks for starting this Rich.
Andy
 
IMO as long as the glue holds Micarta pins wouldn't be a lot difft than metal ones. Straight micarta pins and straight metal pins that is.

If you are concerned about getting the handle hot and the glue releasing then you'd want to go for the type handle pins that screw together.

On most knife handles with straight pins it's mostly the glue that holds them on anyway. If that glue releases then theoretically the handle slabs could eventually come off the handle although it's unlikely to happen in the field or anything unless the slabs were very thin, since the slabs would have to work their way up and off the pins.

I have purposely heated the handle and released the glue to change the slabs and my experience has been that when it releases any natural warpage in the handle causes gaps between the spine and the handle but that I still had to take a punch and knock the pins out before the handle could come off. So what I'm saying is it shouldn't be a big worry.
 
Nice to meet you lightguy. I've removed at least 6 handles from knives since switching to this system. They're not easy to get off. I use a BIG oldfashioned framing chisel. I put the knife blade down in the vise, and line the chisel carefully at the scale tang junction, then chisel the scale off. Those pins are plenty strong. I've done a LOT of them now, and not once has anyone had a handle fall off. Additionally, switching to the 1/8" pins put the pin very close to the scale handle junction. This adds a LOT of gluejoint at the area the handle is most likely to get wet, and usualy where any seperation might start. Since switching from corby's to the 1/8" micarta pins, I've not had to fix that once. Old katana's were held together with a single bamboo pin.

Now, if your handle ever falls off your Fiddleback knife, I'll fix it or replace it at your choice per my warranty.
 
Hey Andy, somewhere there was a thread where you had a combo pin knife that you were taking the scales off of and the micarta actually was tougher to get off. I just cant remember which thread it was.
 
Fiddleback said:
Nice to meet you lightguy. I've removed at least 6 handles from knives since switching to this system. They're not easy to get off. I use a BIG oldfashioned framing chisel. I put the knife blade down in the vise, and line the chisel carefully at the scale tang junction, then chisel the scale off. Those pins are plenty strong. I've done a LOT of them now, and not once has anyone had a handle fall off. Additionally, switching to the 1/8" pins put the pin very close to the scale handle junction. This adds a LOT of gluejoint at the area the handle is most likely to get wet, and usualy where any seperation might start. Since switching from corby's to the 1/8" micarta pins, I've not had to fix that once. Old katana's were held together with a single bamboo pin.

Now, if your handle ever falls off your Fiddleback knife, I'll fix it or replace it at your choice per my warranty.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Andy! That makes me feel much better - I just haven't had any experience with a knife with these fasteners.

You mentioned switching to 1/8" pins. Does this bushfinger (my new, just purchased Fiddleback :D) have the 1/8" pins you mentioned? These look a little different than the ones I've seen before, including your 12/2 batch.

6483319987_8f818a07ac_b.jpg
 
No, those are 1/4" pins. But you can see that I've gotten that front pin quite close to the front of the scales. I really liked that knife.
 
Fiddleback said:
No, those are 1/4" pins. But you can see that I've gotten that front pin quite close to the front of the scales. I really liked that knife.
Click to expand...

Thanks Andy. So you feel like this pin configuration is as stout as your 1/8" config? It almost seems to me like a larger pin like this might even give it the ability withstand more impact, etc.. Also, I was curious - do the pins go all the way through the tang to the other scale? I assumed so, but I just wanted to be sure.

BTW - I like it too! Can't wait to get it in my posession!
 
Yes. They go all the way through. I think thats a stout handle that isn't going to break, thats for sure. Wait till you feel it.
 
Here's my opinion for what it's worth. A handle is only as strong as it's weakest component. For example if you have corby bolts which are steel and by design stronger and put them on micarta handles then the handle material itself is the weak spot. I have also used corby's and they only hold the micarta down by a slight lip of micarta. IMO that lip can break just as easily as a micarta rod can. The thing that holds the handle together most is the epoxy and proper use of the epoxy. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying micarta is weak, just not as strong as metal. In the end Andy's warranty results speak for themselves. Also, I will say that I have owned some knives that were not glued and the handles were held on with flared tube fasteners and the handles shifted and came loose with use.
 
Friend, they've been pinning handles to katanas in Japan for hundreds of years using a single bamboo pin. The pin is mechanically strong, whether wood or micarta or metal. I wouldn't worry about it.
 
Andy's handles are the toughest I've ever held/used, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
 
Thanks for all the responses! That's what I was lookng for. Sounds like using micarta vs steel pins is a non-issue regarding the robust nature of a knife.
 
Also remember, if you don't like your knife when you get it, simply return it in unused condition. I'll even pay shipping home when I refund your $.
 
Fiddleback said:
Did you get the knife yet LG? Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I did! Got it yesterday and the handle is absolutely outstanding - it feels like it is solid as a rock. No concerns here. I honestly have never held a knife that fit like this in the hand.

Until I held this knife of yours, I didn't realize how comfortable a wider handle would be. I'm very impressed with this knife!
 
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Those micarta and G10 pins are way beyond plenty strong. Honestly, in my opinion, pis add strength where it is almost never actually necessary. The glue joint between the handle slabs and the tang is key. After that, adding pins is exponentially increasing strength for absolute abuse over a ridiculously long period of time, like 80 years. The epoxy we use, could most likely hold your handle scales to the tang just fine on their own through some vary serious abuse. A good example of this is a destruction test I did of the Tango a good while back. I used crappy pine handle scales that were only rough shaped and not flat. I attached them to the tang with our epoxy and that was it, no pins. The only other thing I did was loosely wrap some duct tape on the handle for grip. It added nothing to the strength. I destroyed that knife and the only part that survived was the tang, complete with handle. No glue joint popped or anything. You'd be surprised how many knives out there, that no one ever thinks of, have handle scales attached by nothing more than some spots of epoxy and they last for decades. A lot of times, when you see handle scales that have started to come off knives, it has nothing to do with the pins used. It had to do with the epoxy used, cleanliness of the tang during glue-up, the handle material itself breaking down, things like that. As far as the pin material, you could seriously use one or two pins for a GIANT knife, and they could be made of phenolic, wood, steel, and they would be more than enough to facilitate serious use and abuse for decades.

To conclude, I see no difference between using steel pins, brass pins, titanium pins, micarta, G10, fiberglass, etc. They all work just as good and I've used them all. Plus, I've destoryed all of them and see how they hold together. It's pretty incredible. If your Fiddleback fails, it WILL NOT be because of the pin material. In fact, that is the last thing it could possibly be.
 
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