Handling thoughts???

[Knife Crazied]

I was sitting here at work listening to it rain and thinking and this is what came to mind.

When did the holding/gripping of knives change?

What I mean is when I hold a traditional knife I make sure to not put any weight on the spine of the blade as it will cause it to close on me. Then I got to thinking about modern knives having "jimping" on the spine of the blade which tells the user to choke up and apply pressure to the blades spine.

With this said I was also thinking this teaches improper handling procedures. If the knife is used the "modern" way it makes the user rely on the lock to keep them from getting cut.

So do any of you feel that a modern knife user is not as safe with a knife and have as much respect as a traditional knife user?

THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A WHICH IS BETTER POST!!!!!

 

[tomcrx]

In carving I apply a lot of pressure to the spine of traditional folding knives with my off hand. This gives better control.

I think there are safe knife users and unsafe knife users, period. The type of knife used is irrelevant. A lot of knife injuries occur to the off-hand and other parts of the body, not from the knife closing on the hand

 

[yablanowitz]

I've thought for years that it is a shame we no longer teach children how to use tools correctly. That isn't limited to knives, either. I've had to teach college students how to use a shovel, and even how to use a dipstick. No kidding. I had one twenty year old kid fill the entire lawnmower crankcase with oil because he didn't know how to read a dipstick. We don't teach them that when they are behind the wheel, they are supposed to be driving, not yakking on the phone or texting their friends. We don't teach them how to read a map or use a card catalog, so why should we teach them to handle a knife safely? Just make the knives lock open so they'll develop bad habits that will result in severe injury on the day the lock finally fails to protect them from their own stupidity.

 

[artmichalek]

I don't know. The only time I've ever had a slipjoint close on me was when I got the tip stuck in some wood and pulled it out the wrong way. Choking up on the blade shouldn't put enough torque on the pivot to be dangerous.

I have more issues with the whole mentality of "hard use" supplanting "correct use". There's an expectation that folding knives should be able to do things that a lot of us would consider downright stupid, and the primary function of slicing is suffering in a lot of modern designs.

 

[jackknife]

We don't teach them how to read a map or use a card catalog, so why should we teach them to handle a knife safely? Just make the knives lock open so they'll develop bad habits that will result in severe injury on the day the lock finally fails to protect them from their own stupidity.

I've seen the result of just that, twice in my life, and it wasn't pretty. In one case, a young man totally confident of his lock on the Buck 110 he was abusing, cut a finger completely off when it closed with his weight behind it. The other time was a few years ago while waiting in the hand clinic for my name to be called to get my thumb operated on for the tendon problem I was having. A late teens maybe early 20's young man was sitting with his mother opposite Karen and I, and his hand was bandaged up. He was going to see if they could re-attach the cut tendons and ligiments when his tactical folder lock gave away. He must have been doing that 'hard use' I keep hearing about.

I blame the knife companies. In their single minded interest in making money in an artificially created marked they are pushing these knives as being a folding fixed blade. Yes I know such a thing does not exist, but tell that to some 18 year old mall ninja who does not have a father figure in his life to teach him the right way to do things. All these kids know is what the knife magazines tell them, and that's 99% bunk. All magazines exist on advertising money. Gun magaazines, knife magazines, car magazines. So when a heavy advertiser wants certain products pushed, the magazine does so. Like ad's where Cold Steel shows bar bell weights hanging from a knife handle whose blade is locked in a vise, showing how much weight the lock will hold. Some kid is going to buy that knife honestly believing that he's got the folding equivelent of Excaliber, and sooner or later some dirt, lint, or just wear from 'hard use' will have him sitting in the hand surgery clinic.

It's a very very sad thing that todays parents are not stepping up to the plate and teaching their kids how to deal with life and the tools that the kids will need to use safely.

Whew, this is a pet peeve of mine, almost up there with kids watching The Fast and Furious, then thinking they can drive mommys Honda Civic like a pro stunt driver and get themselves killed along with some innocent person.

Sorry for the rant.

Carl.

 

[2Dead]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this but what about Spyderco's line of slipits like the UKPK and Urban? They have jimping on a ramp on the spine of the blade that encourages putting pressure on the spine. To keep it from closing, they designed the handle so that your index finger is in the choil which is half blade and half handle (the blade portion is jimped as well). When holding it with your finger in the choil, the meat of your finger stops the blade from closing if you put too much pressure on the spine.

I have the Urban in G10 and a UKPK droppoint in gray FRN and I love both of them. I don't find issues in using them but I make sure I only use them to slice and don't pull back against what I am cutting. I also make it a point to tell and show others how to use it before I lend them out.

 

[VCM3]

I'm not sure if I've seen a slipjoint with a jimped blade spine
-Vince

Ps Oh yeah,that big Case hunter 2 blader has it ! Duh Up near the tip though.

Best be careful.

 

[Ken44]

I carry both everyday. No problem, and never knew a sole that has had a problem. And all I know have both types of knives.

I think if a person has enough common sence to own a knife, then surely they can figure out how use a simple locking knife and a slipjoint safely at the same time. Same goes for Guns with or without a safety for example.

If you can't figure out how to use BOTH safely, then you probobaly just need a fixed blade. On second though, you probobaly don't even need to own a knife period if you can't learn to use a slipjoint and locking knife without it becomming a safety concern.

 

[yobbos1]

I was a big-time tactical carrier before I converted back to slippies and I had to retrain myself to use a knife properly again. My father taught me to hold, sharpen and use a knife properly but somehow I "unlearned" this while in my "hard use, tactical" phase. I treat all locking knives like slipjoints now and I am safer for it.

 

[Knife Crazied]

I was a big-time tactical carrier before I converted back to slippies and I had to retrain myself to use a knife properly again. My father taught me to hold, sharpen and use a knife properly but somehow I "unlearned" this while in my "hard use, tactical" phase. I treat all locking knives like slipjoints now and I am safer for it.

This is one great post!

 

[Knife Crazied]

I'm not sure if I've seen a slipjoint with a jimped blade spine
-Vince

Ps Oh yeah,that big Case hunter 2 blader has it ! Duh Up near the tip though.

Best be careful.

I think you misunderstood my post. I wasn't saying slippies have jimping I was saying that tactical knives do and after someone learns to use them, if given a slippie and they choke up on it will close on them.

 

[SAKsRCool]

So do any of you feel that a modern knife user is not as safe with a knife and have as much respect as a traditional knife user?

In general, yes I think so. There are more people buying/carrying knives now as the tactical market has bloomed. They are not necessarily knife users, they are people who covet the cool items. So they probably haven't been taught the proper way to use a pocket knife.

But, their safety is ultimately their responsibility and them getting cut is not the fault of anyone else.
adam

 

[mnblade]

I blame the knife companies. In their single minded interest in making money in an artificially created marked they are pushing these knives as being a folding fixed blade. Yes I know such a thing does not exist, but tell that to some 18 year old mall ninja who does not have a father figure in his life to teach him the right way to do things. ...

It's a very very sad thing that todays parents are not stepping up to the plate and teaching their kids how to deal with life and the tools that the kids will need to use safely. ...

Sorry for the rant.

Carl.

Don't apologize, Carl. Preach on! :thumbup:

As the father of two girls (7 and 2) and a boy (5), I take very seriously my responsibility to teach them A) how to safely use basic tools like a folding knife, and B) to discern between information and marketing bunk. I think both are essential skills in this world.

-- Mark

 

[Knife Crazied]

I've thought for years that it is a shame we no longer teach children how to use tools correctly. That isn't limited to knives, either. I've had to teach college students how to use a shovel, and even how to use a dipstick. No kidding. I had one twenty year old kid fill the entire lawnmower crankcase with oil because he didn't know how to read a dipstick. We don't teach them that when they are behind the wheel, they are supposed to be driving, not yakking on the phone or texting their friends. We don't teach them how to read a map or use a card catalog, so why should we teach them to handle a knife safely? Just make the knives lock open so they'll develop bad habits that will result in severe injury on the day the lock finally fails to protect them from their own stupidity.

I know what your saying. I work with this guy who is about 8 years old then me and the boss told him to check the oil in the truck he looks at me and says how do you do that. I told him to come with me and I would show him.

 

[zippin44]

Common sense means that someone looks at situations in life in terms of risk. They take the time to understand how things work, where things can go wrong, and proceed accordingly. I think this is why one of those Marine motto's is something akin to, "Be courteous, be respectful, and have a plan to kill everyone around you". It sounds crazy at face value, but it conveys a valuable lesson, at least to me. I'm continually amazed how easily people take risks, whether small or large, with little or no prior thought. In fact, they are more apt to believe hearsay and misleading facts rather than doing some of their own work to learn the truth behind the scenes so they can make intelligent decisions in life. I could go on forever about this.

On the other hand, in many instances, all it takes is one lapse in concentration and you suddenly find yourself in a heap of trouble. Just ask any woodworker who's missing a few fingers. Many of those amputations happened to someone who is generally careful, but had a momentary lapse of attention. This is why engineers design redundancy into systems. And so it is with knives; humans aren't perfect and lapses are bound to happen to everyone at some point.

So, back to cutlery. I stopped carrying a folder for hard use a long time ago. They are just too risky for many types of cutting. I guess I realized that the best of both worlds is to carry a nice slippie for slicing and unzipping mail, boxes, etc, and a fixed blade for anything beyond that. Plus, there are just too many situations in which I can't whip out my fixed blade to cut something, but a pretty slipjoint doesn't raise eyebrows.

As far as the issue about jimping is concerned, it all depends on how you look at it. I find myself pushing at the spine of the blade on my slipjoints all the time, but in a way that isn't going to cut me if something slips. Jimping probably makes no difference in how or where I push. Personally, I think jimping looks cool on many knives. But for someone who has little experience or doesn't know how to use a knife, is jimping a cause for concern? Is it just a big sign saying push here? Maybe!

 

[SAKsRCool]

Blame the knife companies? Really? Might as well extend that to alcohol, firearms and video games companies.
adam

 

[Knife Crazied]

But for someone who has little experience or doesn't know how to use a knife, is jimping a cause for concern? Is it just a big sign saying push here? Maybe!

I personally feel that it is saying here I am put your thumb or finger here and push down.

 

[Rick]

I find myself pushing at the spine of the blade on my slipjoints all the time, but in a way that isn't going to cut me if something slips.

Same here - I'll often "choke-up" on both slipjoints and locking folders with my index finger or thumb along the blade spine for better control when doing slow, deliberate detail work, but if the job requires more than a modicum of pressure, my finger goes back on the handle to better control the direction of the cut. I too treat all folders, locking or not, like a slipjoint with a soft spring.

A brief glance over at the General board will usually be rewarded by a photo or video of some "hardcore"-wannabe using his tiger-striped, skull-beaded folder like a fixed blade or even worse, pounding it through a small tree like a some kind of halfa$$ hatchet. Amazing.

 

[HAKnPocket]

Carl your rant was well warranted. Coming from a person that spends 8 hours a day with those kids.

 

[Knife Crazied]

I've seen the result of just that, twice in my life, and it wasn't pretty. In one case, a young man totally confident of his lock on the Buck 110 he was abusing, cut a finger completely off when it closed with his weight behind it. The other time was a few years ago while waiting in the hand clinic for my name to be called to get my thumb operated on for the tendon problem I was having. A late teens maybe early 20's young man was sitting with his mother opposite Karen and I, and his hand was bandaged up. He was going to see if they could re-attach the cut tendons and ligiments when his tactical folder lock gave away. He must have been doing that 'hard use' I keep hearing about.

I blame the knife companies. In their single minded interest in making money in an artificially created marked they are pushing these knives as being a folding fixed blade. Yes I know such a thing does not exist, but tell that to some 18 year old mall ninja who does not have a father figure in his life to teach him the right way to do things. All these kids know is what the knife magazines tell them, and that's 99% bunk. All magazines exist on advertising money. Gun magaazines, knife magazines, car magazines. So when a heavy advertiser wants certain products pushed, the magazine does so. Like ad's where Cold Steel shows bar bell weights hanging from a knife handle whose blade is locked in a vise, showing how much weight the lock will hold. Some kid is going to buy that knife honestly believing that he's got the folding equivelent of Excaliber, and sooner or later some dirt, lint, or just wear from 'hard use' will have him sitting in the hand surgery clinic.

It's a very very sad thing that todays parents are not stepping up to the plate and teaching their kids how to deal with life and the tools that the kids will need to use safely.

Whew, this is a pet peeve of mine, almost up there with kids watching The Fast and Furious, then thinking they can drive mommys Honda Civic like a pro stunt driver and get themselves killed along with some innocent person.

Sorry for the rant.

Carl.

I totally agree with you Carl. As for the Cold Steel video I tried to sit though it with my roommate but I could only take so much! I really dislike there absolute proof video. I feel its a lot of false statements. You watch youtube for say and see cold steel fail all the time. Ok enough with CS let's get back to traditional knives and answer the questions from my first post.