archer, listen to what the makers trying to help are saying. do a lot of reading and keep asking questions. remember, there's no such thing as a stupid question if you're wanting to learn. there has been some good information posted in your threads to help you out. put it to good use on your future knives. when you do, let the guys who have your knives already check them out. i'm sure they will be amazed even more.
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Handmade Replica Rambo IV Knife/Machete
- Thread starter Archer Here
- Start date
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As a collector of knives for over 20 years, I welcome you to this forum.
I still think that having a 3/16" wide metal tang in direct contact with your hand/fingers will cause pain and undue fatigue from a working knife. Chopping with it will transfer the shock and vibration directly to your unprotected hand. Why not extend the wood scales?
I think you should take this into serious consideration if you want to make knives that people will want to keep and use for a lifetime.
Consider this feedback, not attitude.
I still think that having a 3/16" wide metal tang in direct contact with your hand/fingers will cause pain and undue fatigue from a working knife. Chopping with it will transfer the shock and vibration directly to your unprotected hand. Why not extend the wood scales?
I think you should take this into serious consideration if you want to make knives that people will want to keep and use for a lifetime.
Consider this feedback, not attitude.
Welcome to the Blade forums:thumbup:
If you will allow me just a little latitude to help, clarify, what both buyers and makers, expect to see accompanying a makers knife for sale listing.
Everyone will want to know what steel you are using to make the knife.
The reason for this is, you can not heat treat a blade properly, if you don't know what the steel contains. Heat treatments vary widely, depending on the steel being used.
People are interested in the techniques you use to make or test your knives.
The newer a person is to this business the more questions people are going to ask. They are trying to see what you know, or if you are just Bsing.
Because we are buying and selling through a media, that does not allow us to personally inspect the item being sold, we have to rely on the makers knowledge, which comes by way of his listing; or if you are fortunate to stay at this long enough, your reputation will speak for you.
You are starting out; work as hard as you can, from the beginning, to develop a good reputation.
The people that have stayed at this craft for the amount of time that it takes to acquire the knowledge and skill to produce a great knife are deserving of the admiration and respect they receive.
I have been at this for 10 years and am still working in that direction.
This will bring a laugh to some of my friends
Happy to do that for ya.:thumbup:
When you post your next knife for sale, try to have some of the above information at hand; people will ask.
You will find this to be a tough skinned but highly knowledgeable forum.
I am hopeful that my comments have been well received.
Best of luck, Fred
If you will allow me just a little latitude to help, clarify, what both buyers and makers, expect to see accompanying a makers knife for sale listing.
Everyone will want to know what steel you are using to make the knife.
The reason for this is, you can not heat treat a blade properly, if you don't know what the steel contains. Heat treatments vary widely, depending on the steel being used.
People are interested in the techniques you use to make or test your knives.
The newer a person is to this business the more questions people are going to ask. They are trying to see what you know, or if you are just Bsing.
Because we are buying and selling through a media, that does not allow us to personally inspect the item being sold, we have to rely on the makers knowledge, which comes by way of his listing; or if you are fortunate to stay at this long enough, your reputation will speak for you.
You are starting out; work as hard as you can, from the beginning, to develop a good reputation.
The people that have stayed at this craft for the amount of time that it takes to acquire the knowledge and skill to produce a great knife are deserving of the admiration and respect they receive.
I have been at this for 10 years and am still working in that direction.
This will bring a laugh to some of my friends
Happy to do that for ya.:thumbup:When you post your next knife for sale, try to have some of the above information at hand; people will ask.
You will find this to be a tough skinned but highly knowledgeable forum.
I am hopeful that my comments have been well received.
Best of luck, Fred
Archer, head over to this section of the board http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=741
and this http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=678
I think some of the forum members are only trying to protect their fellows here and have no true malicious intent. You would protect yours I'm sure given the opportunity.
Also please remember (this goes for all) that the internet is a poor medium for communication as you can NOT see someones facial expressions, hear the inflection in a persons voice, read their body stance, which creates problems as many of us are not the greatest writers (especially me) and conveying our thoughts and feelings on a matter is difficult via these means.
Just my everso .02 aka opinion.
Welcome to the board!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Very Respectfully,
Stefan
BTW Fred posted some good info for you on this.
and this http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=678
I think some of the forum members are only trying to protect their fellows here and have no true malicious intent. You would protect yours I'm sure given the opportunity.
Also please remember (this goes for all) that the internet is a poor medium for communication as you can NOT see someones facial expressions, hear the inflection in a persons voice, read their body stance, which creates problems as many of us are not the greatest writers (especially me) and conveying our thoughts and feelings on a matter is difficult via these means.
Just my everso .02 aka opinion.
Welcome to the board!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Very Respectfully,
Stefan
BTW Fred posted some good info for you on this.
Have you file tested your knives?
Also, You just need to hang in there. You've chosen to be a knife maker. You have to go through this ritual. This is the only forum that you will get the best advice from. They [knife makers] have tendency to eat their young. Just wear some armor, ask questions, and so forth. There is no such thing as a bad question. Some of these guys have been members here for a decade, been making knives for decades, and some are the best there is. You're like a rookie to them. I don't mean that in a bad way. They give rookies hell in the NFL and NASCAR. This isn't much different. Some of the best knife makers are here and since you don't know who they are it is best to just roll with punches. Eventually, they will lighten up. You're doing fine. Ignore the drive-by posters.
Knife makers are the weirdest lot on this site. Welcome to the club. Just keep your cool. I mean that from experience.
Also, You just need to hang in there. You've chosen to be a knife maker. You have to go through this ritual. This is the only forum that you will get the best advice from. They [knife makers] have tendency to eat their young. Just wear some armor, ask questions, and so forth. There is no such thing as a bad question. Some of these guys have been members here for a decade, been making knives for decades, and some are the best there is. You're like a rookie to them. I don't mean that in a bad way. They give rookies hell in the NFL and NASCAR. This isn't much different. Some of the best knife makers are here and since you don't know who they are it is best to just roll with punches. Eventually, they will lighten up. You're doing fine. Ignore the drive-by posters.
Knife makers are the weirdest lot on this site. Welcome to the club. Just keep your cool. I mean that from experience.
Archer Here
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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- Nov 2, 2008
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Sorry everyone. Ive been in my bow shop most of the day finishing orders, and have not had a chance to respond until now
the holidays are coming
. After reading all of these replies to my thread today, Ive have come to the conclusion that I dont know it all (Ha Ha). I understand there are some shady people who claim to be knife makers, but that aint me. I just want to make a good knife. So Im going to stay and learn from you all, and also Im going to cancel the ignore list. So in other words, Im starting over fresh on this fine knife forum, like its my first day here.
And now to answer some of the questions and respond to some of the advice
Im going to start hanging out, as time allows, in the shop talk & wilderness & survivalist skills forums, as you suggested. I think its kind of a must do.
As far as the wide metal tang CWL referred to, I just thought it looked cool; but you could tell by looking at my bows, I am always trying something different than the norm. I should take your advice and go ahead and take it up to the edge (I dont want to hurt any palm olive hands ha ha). Thats a joke now.
Related to Fred Rowes comments:
I will add descriptions of steel, heat treatments used, and techniques used to make the knife.
Related to Culpepers question:
One of the guys here called me and had me do that (file tested the knife), and it did scratch the edge with my metal file, but not really that bad. I grabbed one of my store bought survivalist knives and it scratched it also. So now Im thoroughly confused. If you got an answer let me know.
I know more today than I did yesterday. I went to Deville Steel today and asked the owner what a good steel for knife making is, and he didnt know. Ive been advised on this forum of several different kinds of carbon steel, so by looking at my knives, Im asking somebody to tell me what type of carbon steel I need. He said he can order anything I want.
Just want to say one more time, thanks, and lets start over. Ill be back with more knives soon.
Thanks and See you in the Wild! .. Archer out (from Star Trek ya know).
And now to answer some of the questions and respond to some of the advice
Im going to start hanging out, as time allows, in the shop talk & wilderness & survivalist skills forums, as you suggested. I think its kind of a must do.
As far as the wide metal tang CWL referred to, I just thought it looked cool; but you could tell by looking at my bows, I am always trying something different than the norm. I should take your advice and go ahead and take it up to the edge (I dont want to hurt any palm olive hands ha ha). Thats a joke now.
Related to Fred Rowes comments:
I will add descriptions of steel, heat treatments used, and techniques used to make the knife.
Related to Culpepers question:
One of the guys here called me and had me do that (file tested the knife), and it did scratch the edge with my metal file, but not really that bad. I grabbed one of my store bought survivalist knives and it scratched it also. So now Im thoroughly confused. If you got an answer let me know.
I know more today than I did yesterday. I went to Deville Steel today and asked the owner what a good steel for knife making is, and he didnt know. Ive been advised on this forum of several different kinds of carbon steel, so by looking at my knives, Im asking somebody to tell me what type of carbon steel I need. He said he can order anything I want.
Just want to say one more time, thanks, and lets start over. Ill be back with more knives soon.
Thanks and See you in the Wild! .. Archer out (from Star Trek ya know).
Archer Here
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2008
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- 1,306
One last question. What is "carburizing"? It says you can increase hardness by carburizing.
J-siah
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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well for the style knives you have posted I would say that 1080 or 5160 would be the best choice for steel. I just started using 5160 and that is some tough stuff and works well for larger knives. 1080 may be your best choice though, it has a lot of the same character traits as 5160. it seems to hold a little better edge and has a very simple HT process that can be done efficiently with readily available oils.
-Josiah
I can't explain your file test, who made the store bought knife? What kind of steel was it and did you pay <$20.
-Josiah
I can't explain your file test, who made the store bought knife? What kind of steel was it and did you pay <$20.
I am somewhat new to the knifemaking scene (I've actually only made one knife) but I am a Mechanical Engineering senior and have taken a metallurgy class that generally pertains to knifemaking. Carburizing, or what is more commonly called "case hardening", is a process where extra carbon is allowed to diffuse into a metal at high temperatures.
This diffusion process is highly dependent on temperature, but essentially what happens is a piece of metal is placed into a carbon-rich environment. The environment can be a powder bath of some sort (i.e. graphite powder), maybe a carbon-rich gas, or however you wish to introduce carbon into the metal. The knife is placed into a furnace or kiln and the temperature is brought up to a special diffusion temperature. This diffusion happens at all temperatures but the higher the temperature, the faster the process goes (so it might take a few years for a piece to become carburized in a room temperature environment versus a few minutes or even seconds at, say, 800 deg C).
At this temperature, the carbon atoms are drawn into the metal and there they introduce stress in the steel molecules. This stress is what gives the new carburized steel is hardness and strength. Without getting too technical if I already hadn't, defects within the steel (like micro-cracks and such) tend to get stopped dead in their tracks by the energy fields created by the introduced stresses. The degree of carburization depends on the amount of time the piece of metal is left within the carburizing environment but ideally, most times you don't want a fully carburized knife because there is a tradeoff between hardness and brittleness. High strength steels tend to be more brittle and less tough than lower grade steels. This is why case hardening is so popular in steel products (think combo/key locks). The locks are so hard to cut through because of the hard carburized shell but they don't shatter from hammer impacts because the inner core of un-carburized softer steel has high toughness to take the blows.
If this answers your question I'm glad to have offered my knowledge. I am by no means, however, an expert on this topic and others might have objections to what I have said. If there are any other questions you might have please feel free to ask....
This diffusion process is highly dependent on temperature, but essentially what happens is a piece of metal is placed into a carbon-rich environment. The environment can be a powder bath of some sort (i.e. graphite powder), maybe a carbon-rich gas, or however you wish to introduce carbon into the metal. The knife is placed into a furnace or kiln and the temperature is brought up to a special diffusion temperature. This diffusion happens at all temperatures but the higher the temperature, the faster the process goes (so it might take a few years for a piece to become carburized in a room temperature environment versus a few minutes or even seconds at, say, 800 deg C).
At this temperature, the carbon atoms are drawn into the metal and there they introduce stress in the steel molecules. This stress is what gives the new carburized steel is hardness and strength. Without getting too technical if I already hadn't, defects within the steel (like micro-cracks and such) tend to get stopped dead in their tracks by the energy fields created by the introduced stresses. The degree of carburization depends on the amount of time the piece of metal is left within the carburizing environment but ideally, most times you don't want a fully carburized knife because there is a tradeoff between hardness and brittleness. High strength steels tend to be more brittle and less tough than lower grade steels. This is why case hardening is so popular in steel products (think combo/key locks). The locks are so hard to cut through because of the hard carburized shell but they don't shatter from hammer impacts because the inner core of un-carburized softer steel has high toughness to take the blows.
If this answers your question I'm glad to have offered my knowledge. I am by no means, however, an expert on this topic and others might have objections to what I have said. If there are any other questions you might have please feel free to ask...
.W2 is an easy and very durable metal to work with in my opinion. You could also stick to learning on milder steals such as Rail Road spikes (really only good for letter openers however I did find some market HC which I wouldn't mind trying out).
Really W1 and W2 are easy to work with and rather hard to screw up (I've screwed it up but trust me it was hard). I can take pictures of my forge and there are about a million different home made forge designs that guys made on this forum. Some work better then others, or if you have the money you can just buy a forge and go to town.
Good that you are hanging around!
Your grind work is soooooo much better then mine! I look foreword to seeing pictures of your creations down the road.
Really W1 and W2 are easy to work with and rather hard to screw up (I've screwed it up but trust me it was hard). I can take pictures of my forge and there are about a million different home made forge designs that guys made on this forum. Some work better then others, or if you have the money you can just buy a forge and go to town.
Good that you are hanging around!
Your grind work is soooooo much better then mine! I look foreword to seeing pictures of your creations down the road.
Archer Here
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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hey uh culpeper .....I see you live in Roswell , New Mexico I might be thrue there some time can you show me were the greys crashed 
sorry had to ask i know this is a knife forum but thats one of my obsessions.
sorry had to ask i know this is a knife forum but thats one of my obsessions.hey uh culpeper .....I see you live in Roswell , New Mexico I might be thrue there some time can you show me were the greys crashed
There are two crash sites. They supposedly picked up 8 bad guys (2 still alive). Turns out they were illegal immigrants that a couple of ranch hands came across and mistook for rustlers. They dressed them up as aliens as a cover up conspiracy. Thus, the name, "aliens".
I believe one of the ranch hands convinced the other by stating, "It's so stupid it might just work!".
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glad to see you come around, I stayed out of this one. There was a guy a couple months back with somewhat the same problem, he came around too, but I have not seen him since. Knifemakers are strange folks but we are honest and we will tell exactly what has been told to us when we got started(I still think of myself as a rookie) In the for sale area put bluntly know your s*** if you don't people will call you on it. I think my first post I misspelled steel I got raped on that one but I took everyones picking and did not screw that up again. The most important thing that I have gained from this forum is know your steel I got a load of 5160 yesterday from a local spring shop I asked the five times while I was there was he 100% sure it was what he said it was and know how it heat treats I have seen this a hundred times. good luck
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Archer, as safetyman stated "carburizing" is the act of adding carbon to the outer shell of otherwise unhardenable steel to allow it to get hard. This is no good for knife making because the act of sharpening the blade will remove the thin layer of hard steel leaving you with a soft "knife shaped object".
I'm kinda new here, but isn't this conversation better suited in the Shop Talk Forum? Maybe a new thread should be started there or this one moved. I'm enjoying reading and learning about this stuff but it just doesn't seem to fit this forum.
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I agree, Thanks to the mods for letting it run and helping to bring in a new maker. Now with open eyes. Welcome Archer.
Archer Here
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Read all the posts sent today on this thread, and appreciate all the helpful advice. I won’t let you down. Thanks and See you in the Wild.
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