Hard flipper action 560

PURPLEDC said:
yes. I customize knives as a hobby. I flame colored the Frame of my 0560 and the clip and then after assembly decided to do the liner as well. Then I decided to tear it down yet again to adjust the lockbar. each time I had to back off the pivot screw after assembly to make sure the blade would move. I dont know why you never have an issue with it but in most cases bearing pivots can lock up. Now bushing pivots are a whole other story as the play in a knife with a bushing system is pre determined by the bushing itself and the handle slabs cant pinch the blade do to the bushing being slightly thicker than the blade.
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I got ya. I haven't taken my folder apart (yet), might not need to. I found that mine arrived pretty much with strong detent, and a great fflip action. I used the torx and found that less than 1/4 turn and the pivot was tight. I checked the flipper and it was even smoother. The pivot did not go any more, and I checked once more and it was smooth. After that, I did not mess with it.

My other knives Tilt, same thing. The pivot is hand tight and smooth as can be. It's actually smoother than my 0560. My large Sebenzas also have the pivot tightened down, and the action is smooth. From what I've read, this is how the knives are supposed to work.
 
RevDevil said:
I got ya. I haven't taken my folder apart (yet), might not need to. I found that mine arrived pretty much with strong detent, and a great fflip action. I used the torx and found that less than 1/4 turn and the pivot was tight. I checked the flipper and it was even smoother. The pivot did not go any more, and I checked once more and it was smooth. After that, I did not mess with it.

My other knives Tilt, same thing. The pivot is hand tight and smooth as can be. It's actually smoother than my 0560. My large Sebenzas also have the pivot tightened down, and the action is smooth. From what I've read, this is how the knives are supposed to work.
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sebenzas are different though. They have a bushing in the blade that prevents the handle slabs from pinching the blade. Bearing knives are different though. There is no bushing. There is a pin in the spine of the 0560 close to where a standard blade stop would be but it can be overcome and the blade can be pinched. Im sure if you would have used more force you would experience the same results. But there is virtually no logic in trying to do so.
 
PURPLEDC said:
sebenzas are different though. They have a bushing in the blade that prevents the handle slabs from pinching the blade. Bearing knives are different though. There is no bushing. There is a pin in the spine of the 0560 close to where a standard blade stop would be but it can be overcome and the blade can be pinched. Im sure if you would have used more force you would experience the same results. But there is virtually no logic in trying to do so.
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True, but way ahead of you purple, been at this for 20+ years. :D i was only trying to illustrate a point that for some (based on my experience) be it bushing or bearing, once the pivot is tight, the knife will open as smoothly as it can.
 
Stainz said:
the 0561 bearing system makes the blade inherently self-centering.
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I know it's taken out of context and I have heard that before but my blade is not centered. Go figure.

Also, like PURPLEDC said and in the realm of "you can't please everybody...", I'd be willing to trade my regular detent for a detent from hell. My detent is not as strong as my Gen 4 XM and I wish it was.

Last thing, tightening down the pivot most assuredly has an effect on how well it flips.
 
Just got my 560,and it is amazing! I don't see what the big deal is with the detent, it's not that hard to flip open. It certainly is stiffer then the tilt, but no where near as stiff as my HTM Gunhammer is.
 
The Virginian said:
Hi.

In response to your question, NO this is not normal. It may be normal for this particular knife, but this particular knife itself is not normal or representative of other flippers.

IMO, the detent on this knife is totally unacceptable. And that is being kind - because the words I really want to use would be deemed inappropriate here. If I ever have a beer with you, say at the Blade Show, I will tell you what I REALLY think of it. I own a real XM-18 - which is a terrific knife and which flips open exactly as a flipper should. It does not have the detent problems that this knife has. And yes, I read Thomas' thread which was mentioned earlier. It is nothing but sugar coating. The XM-18 is "living proof" that this ridiculous detent was totally unnecessary and is nothing but a mistake by the manufacturer. IMO, it is a major flaw which ruins what would otherwise be a decent knife.

Wha is worse are all of the posts I have read here and elsewhere by folks who bought this knife who had never owned a flipper before, and based on this knife have now come to the conclusion that flipper knives are not for them. That is sad, because IMO this knife is a very bad representation of what the action of a flipper knife should be because the detent is just too pronounced. And I do not accept the comparion to the Microtech OTF knives because I own one of those, too and it is far easier to operate than the flipper action on this knife.

I am planning to post a review of this knife at BF in the next couple of days, but in the General Knife forum, not in this forum as I do not believe that the hosts of this forum would not appreciate me using their forum for my review.
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At KAI USA, we pride ourselves on providing excellent customer service. If you are concerned with the detent on your 0560, feel free to send it in, and our warranty department will be happy to adjust it for you.

I think it is very difficult to determine what is a "normal" is for a flipper knife. Remember, your comment is really just an opinion, not a statement of fact. There are plenty of custom makers that build their knives with an equal or stronger detent to what you encountered on the 0560. We chose to build this knife with a stronger detent to help the knife open quickly, and to make sure the knife stays closed. Ball bearing washers can make a knife open a little too easily if not countered with an appropriate detent.

I find it interesting that you think the XM-18 detent was so perfect. Are you aware that the new 4th generation XM-18 flippers have been switched over to a stronger detent? However, I'd rather not drag Rick's knife into this discussion. We're talking about the 0560/0561 here.

You are welcome to post your review in this forum, but I would recommend a level-headed approach when you write it. I struggle to understand why the detent on your knife would warrant such a vehement and emotional response. Positive and negative feedback are both welcome here, but you'll get a better response with a civil tone and some explanation of the reasons behind your opinions.
 
jimmer_5 said:
At KAI USA, we pride ourselves on providing excellent customer service. If you are concerned with the detent on your 0560, feel free to send it in, and our warranty department will be happy to adjust it for you.

I think it is very difficult to determine what is a "normal" is for a flipper knife. Remember, your comment is really just an opinion, not a statement of fact. There are plenty of custom makers that build their knives with an equal or stronger detent to what you encountered on the 0560. We chose to build this knife with a stronger detent to help the knife open quickly, and to make sure the knife stays closed. Ball bearing washers can make a knife open a little too easily if not countered with an appropriate detent.

I find it interesting that you think the XM-18 detent was so perfect. Are you aware that the new 4th generation XM-18 flippers have been switched over to a stronger detent? However, I'd rather not drag Rick's knife into this discussion. We're talking about the 0560/0561 here.

You are welcome to post your review in this forum, but I would recommend a level-headed approach when you write it. I struggle to understand why the detent on your knife would warrant such a vehement and emotional response. Positive and negative feedback are both welcome here, but you'll get a better response with a civil tone and some explanation of the reasons behind your opinions.
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I must give full credit to you sir.

IMHO not only is the customer not always right sometimes you should just tell them off and be done with it.

Kudos for such a well toned and level headed response.
 
Honestly i love that the detent is soo strong on this knife. Cant be opened by centrifugal force=legal NYC carry. I couldnt be happier and am eagerly awaiting their restock.
 
SavageSmurf said:
Honestly i love that the detent is soo strong on this knife. Cant be opened by centrifugal force=legal NYC carry. I couldnt be happier and am eagerly awaiting their restock.
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This is awesome as I have been eyeing the 560/1 and thinking, hmmm, but what if it doesn't pass the wrist flick test and gets confiscated as a "gravity" knife or one that opens due to centrifugal force... :D O love flippers and I love one that open with some force, A good detent is a necessary part of that process.

And bearings are great, but it is possible in general to overtighten them and have drag... Which is bad for the bearings and the races, so try not to. :D
 
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When I bought my 0560, I tried two different ones and I picked the one with the stronger detent. I liked the feel when it snapped out and locked.

Even though I doubt it would ever happen, it just crossed my mind while flipping the other that the blade my flop out on it's own.

My 2 cents.

I love my 0560 and carry it almost every day. :)
 
The Virginian said:
I am planning to post a review of this knife at BF in the next couple of days, but in the General Knife forum, not in this forum as I do not believe that the hosts of this forum would not appreciate me using their forum for my review.
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Couple days, couple months...still waiting...
 
I think that there are unfortunately some rare production issues, which is probably true of any production knife. I also bought a NIB 0560 recently and returned it after a couple days because the blade was not centered and it made a kind of scraping noise when closing. Also it often stopped 3/4 of the way when flipping open. I took it apart to look for anything unusual but everything looked clean. If I loosened the pivot to the point of getting a smooth non-friction opening with no blade play it was way off center. I had to tighten the pivot screw to the extreme to get the blade *almost* centered. I thought that maybe I should just keep it and that it would eventually break-in, but when I saw that most people were really happy with the 0560 right away I figured I'd better not take the chance. I will probably be trying a 0560 again someday because even with the problem it felt really good in my hand and I figured it had to be a very rare chance of bad luck...
 
My 0560 is a dream! I don't even need to flick my wrist to open her, that's how smooth she is.
 
Maprik said:
I think that there are unfortunately some rare production issues, which is probably true of any production knife. I also bought a NIB 0560 recently and returned it after a couple days because the blade was not centered....
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I also have a similar issue with my 0560 mine, however, works exactly the opposite. My blade favors the lockbar side when I tighten the pivot it moves even closer to the TI side, when I loosen it the blade shifts towards the G-10 scale. So, in order to have the blade perfectly centered there is some blade play, my happy medium where there is no blade play and still flips out easy it is off by about 1mm toward the lockbar. I'm a little concerned seeing that if it breaks in more, where the KVY bearings eventually carve a slight groove, I will have to tighten the pivot a tad more causing the blade to be even more off centered.

It seems that my issue is an aberration as I couldn't find any talk in this regard. I'm asking here because I'm a little hesitant in sending it in to KAI, all other aspects of this knife are awesome. I don't have any of the other issues mentioned in other posts, detent, sharp edges etc... This knife is a definite keeper it's a large knife that handles smaller if that makes any sense. I love it, but blade centering is a pet peeve of mine and like I mentioned may get worse over time if the pivot needs to be tightened a smidge..

Anyone else have blade centering issues with the ZT0560?
 
I've had 3 560s in my possesion all 3 were solid, I sold one to fund a grail, traded the other one for a semi grail and bought the 3rd because i couldn't be without one. All 3 had different detents but all flipped easily . It's all about technique really, as far as blade centering goes, I haven't had any problems in that department but KIA will fix you right up i promise you.
 
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Am I being to critical here, comment please...I can take it! :D

Other than that the knife is nearly perfect, fit and function and loving it......
 
It's off centered the right way.:) It favors the lock side and should move to the right with use. At least that is the direction all of my knives have moved to become out of center.

The lock bar always seems to push the blade out of center over time with use. This would be the perfect set up IMO.
 
Thanks 'presz' for your reply and info! I was just a little concerned as I'm usually able to fix off-center blades pretty easily, that wasn't the case here with my 0560. I just loosen up the scales/liners and flex the handle to reseat the blade centered, worked like a charm previously (learned that here on the forums).

Your comment on the blade migrating away from the lockbar eventually is invaluable to me, I appreciate it!
 
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