Hard or "soft" leather for strop?

Stitchawl: Thanks.
Now you've given me another aspect of this hobby upon which to focus my obsessive attention. I was spending too much time with the wife anyway.
OldDude1
 
stitchawl said:
You can always improve the cutting action of veg-tanned leather by 'boning' it yourself. Before you mount the leather on a bench block, wet it down well (run warm water over it for 15-20 seconds, front and back) then let is sit for an hour or two until you notice that the surface is just beginning to change back to its original color. (The leather at this point will mold almost like modeling clay.) Then using a heavy rolling pin or a steel pipe (if you use a steel pipe cover it with a sheet of plastic or your leather will discolor) and roll the heck out of it for an hour or two! Really bear down on the leather. You will get better results if you use the rounded end of a dowel, souvenir baseball bat, or even a baseball itself. This is what is done in the boning process. It will force the silicates to migrate to the surface of the leather. After you're finished, allow the leather to dry completely, give it a treatment with your favorite leather conditioner (used sparingly) and mount on a bench block or turn into a hanging strop. You will see a BIIIIG difference between your treated strop and new leather.
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:cool: Hmmm...

This is intriguing. I see another 'strop experiment' in my near future...

After your earlier (and very informative) description of the 'boning' process, I wondered if it'd work with my veg-tanned leather. And, voila! Just like that, you've delivered the 'how-to' instructions. Now I think I'll give it a try.

Thanks again. :thumbup:

Dave
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
:cool: Hmmm...

This is intriguing. I see another 'strop experiment' in my near future...

After your earlier (and very informative) description of the 'boning' process, I wondered if it'd work with my veg-tanned leather. And, voila! Just like that, you've delivered the 'how-to' instructions. Now I think I'll give it a try.

Thanks again. :thumbup:

Dave
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Do it!!! :thumbup:
I did. That's why I'm such a big fan of the process. I cut two pieces of leather 3"x8" from a 6"x8" square of 7-8oz veg-tanned cowhide, boned one for the length of time it took to watch a movie... (hey, boning leather is boring...) let it dry and then tried stropping on them as bare leather. The difference was day and night!

Then I tried stropping on horsehide and boned cowhide, side by side. Again, the difference was day and night.

The more pressure while rubbing the better the effect. The rounded end of souvenir baseball bat (the sort of thin a bartender keeps behind the bar for rowdy patrons,) or a round door knob will work better than a rolling pin, but the rolling pin will keep the surface of the leather flatter and smoother. In the old days, entire hides were boned at one time by dragging them back and forth over the rounded end of a log for days and days. Small pieces were done with the round end of a cow leg bone.

Boned horsehide is the very best of all, but really difficult to find these days. Only two places in the US even produce it.

Stitchawl
 
Here's a horse hide strop I recently made........I'm liking the results!:thumbup:

Anvil009.jpg
 
rayban said:
Here's a horse hide strop I recently made........I'm liking the results!:thumbup:

Anvil009.jpg
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You should! Once you strop on horsehide and feel that surface grab the edge, you know you'll never go back to bare cowhide! Not to say that bare cowhide is bad... far from it. Bare cowhide works well. But on a scale of 1 to 10, bare cowhide is a 3 while bare horsehide, if it's good quality veg tanned hide that's been boned, is an 11. :thumbup:


Stitchawl
 
Can you recamend a good horsehide strop like the $100 one you are talking about? One with some length that I can hang in my bathroom?

TY
RB
 
stings said:
Can you recamend a good horsehide strop like the $100 one you are talking about? One with some length that I can hang in my bathroom?

TY
RB
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Do a web search for 'Russian Leather Barber Strop' and look at the results.. Read the advertising copy. If the first (or ONLY!) thing mentioned is the fancy swivel snap attachment or or handle, pass it by. You want a strop that is advertised for its leather... That's the important part of a strop. Something like "The Dovo 183 strop features their wonderful Russian leather, which is taken from a slice below the outer skin. It has a wonderful velvety smooth surface ..." or "Russian" style made from the flesh side of the leather.." Look at 'Shaving' or 'Barber supply' companies rather than knife sellers or even companies that formed just to sell strops to knife knuts. The folks who NEED the best edge every day are the guys who shave with their blades. They will have the 'best of the best' when it comes to the leather in their strops. Strop makers such as Dovo and Thiers-Issard have been around a hundred years, perfecting their strops to create the very best edges. No hand-polished fancy handles, no special exotic woods, they put their quality into the leathers... So should you. :)


Stitchawl
 
If you have been stropping for a while on cowhide, be careful if you switch to horsehide. It is a little 'grabby' and you can easily cut if if you don't slow your strokes down. Horsehide works great for my regular straight razors but my Kamisori stroke nicked it on day one! Since then, I strop the Kami on my well worn cowhide strop.
 
stitchawl said:
... Boned horsehide is the very best of all, but really difficult to find these days. Only two places in the US even produce it.

Stitchawl
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Who in the US produces it?
(I couldn't find any searching.)
 
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cbwx34 said:
Who in the US produces it?
(I couldn't find any searching.)
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I believe you are quoting a post of mine that I made six years ago. Today, as far as I know, there is only ONE place that sells horsehide that has been processed in a fashion 'similar' to 'boning.' That company is Horween Leather of Chicago, and the hides that they sell are shell cordovan. 'Shell' being the oval 'cut' of leather taken just forward of the butt section on either side of the hide, and 'cordovan' being the mechanical pounding that the shells are given to compress the leather. The process of making shell cordovan horsehide takes a full six months! Needless to say, the stuff is expensive! Unfortunately, Horween doesn't sell individual shells or sell retail at all. All of their shell cordovan leather is sold to factories in bulk quantities. I was very lucky to meet the Horween sales rep in Japan who gave me a shell section to use as strops. I made several from the one shell, giving most of them away at the time.

The 'reason' why the shells make the best strops is obvious. They are the very densest portion of the hide, more so than any other, so when compressed even further by either 'boning' or mechanical pounding, become almost rock-hard yet still flexible. You can achieve results 'almost' as good by using cowhide backs or shoulders, casing the leather, and then rolling it for 30-45 minutes. Still not quite a firm as shell cordovan horsehide, but pretty damn close. The horsehide will have more natural silicates in it than the cowhide, but in fact, that will just translate to needing 20 strokes on the cowhide instead of 10-15 on the horsehide. The stuff is good... but it's not magic.
 
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Cool... thanks. I have a horsehide strop I got from Handamerican a few years ago... wondered if it was one of them. (Didn't catch the date of your post). It has a harder feel (won't compress at all compared to other strops), and does 'grab' an edge like you mentioned.
 
cbwx34 said:
Cool... thanks. I have a horsehide strop I got from Handamerican a few years ago... wondered if it was one of them. (Didn't catch the date of your post). It has a harder feel (won't compress at all compared to other strops), and does 'grab' an edge like you mentioned.
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HandAmerican always sold good quality supplies... when you could get Keith to ship them out!
The very best horsehide strops are so dense that you almost can't dent them with your thumbnail! No problem at all with 'roll-over' if you use a bit too much pressure. But as usual, almost no pressure is best!


Stitchawl
 
stitchawl said:
HandAmerican always sold good quality supplies... when you could get Keith to ship them out!
The very best horsehide strops are so dense that you almost can't dent them with your thumbnail! No problem at all with 'roll-over' if you use a bit too much pressure. But as usual, almost no pressure is best!


Stitchawl
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Hi Stitchawl,

I have a couple of more questions for you.

I know you said if we're going to use compound, then go with the super fine grit like .1 micron. Is .5 micron good enough or .25 micron? I'm thinking polycrystaline diamond.

Second question is for conditioning the boned leather, can I use Obenauf's Leather oil instead of shoe cream? It's made from "natural preserving oils, beeswax, and propolis."
 
Rey HRH said:
Hi Stitchawl,

I have a couple of more questions for you.

I know you said if we're going to use compound, then go with the super fine grit like .1 micron. Is .5 micron good enough or .25 micron? I'm thinking polycrystaline diamond.
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You can use ANY compound you want... but why use it on leather? What's the point of taking a substance that has its own extra-fine abrasives and covering them up with coarse abrasives? Put the compound onto a flat piece of wood or MDF. Generally speaking, the reason for using leather is its super-fine natural silicate abrasive quality. Those abrasives just 'happen to be' in leather. If they 'happened to be' in wood, we'd use wood for our final stropping... (Actually, there ARE natural silicates in wood, just not is such a large concentration as found in leathers.)

If you eliminate the natural abrasive quality found in leather, all you are left with is a flat surface. Why pay fancy money for a flat surface? Leather isn't magic. It doesn't do something 'special' for knives. It's just a 'carrier' for the finest abrasives generally available without spending big money for compounds...

Second question is for conditioning the boned leather, can I use Obenauf's Leather oil instead of shoe cream? It's made from "natural preserving oils, beeswax, and propolis."
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Yes, you 'can,' but personally I wouldn't. Beeswax is used as a water-proofing agent. There is no need for that on a strop. Propolis is the food feed to the Queen Bee. Strops don't need bee food... nor do shoes, but it sure sounds pretty, doesn't it? (Propolis does have ALL of the amino acids required by the human body, so it's a good food supplement. I do NOT recommend eating Obenauf's Leather Oil though... Better to get capsules at the health food store.)

"IF" you are going to use this stuff on a strop, you need to be VERY careful not to apply too much, as it WILL soften the leather. Dip your fingertip into it, and spread just a wee dot of the oil over half the strop. Dip again and cover the other half. Now rub it in well and let it sit overnight. Vigorously wipe off all the excess. It's very easy to over-use it and risk softening the surface of the strop, especially if the leather hasn't been compressed properly first.

If it were me, I'd spend a dollar and buy some cheap shoe cream... And even then, use it VERY sparingly. 2-3 pea-sized dots for the entire strop rubbed in, and wiped off.

(BTW, this should be repeated every 2-3 years...)


Stitchawl
 
stitchawl said:
HandAmerican always sold good quality supplies... when you could get Keith to ship them out!
The very best horsehide strops are so dense that you almost can't dent them with your thumbnail! No problem at all with 'roll-over' if you use a bit too much pressure. But as usual, almost no pressure is best!


Stitchawl
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Thanks. I gotta say, originally I didn't get much use out of stropping on plain horsehide, but I think now it's because my sharpening skills weren't good enough to really benefit from it. Using it the past couple of weeks, I've been amazed at what an improvement it makes to an edge.

Glad I kept it around. :thumbup: Hopefully, as I continue to improve, so will the results.

Thanks!
 
cbwx34 said:
Thanks. I gotta say, originally I didn't get much use out of stropping on plain horsehide, but I think now it's because my sharpening skills weren't good enough to really benefit from it. Using it the past couple of weeks, I've been amazed at what an improvement it makes to an edge.

Glad I kept it around. :thumbup: Hopefully, as I continue to improve, so will the results.

Thanks!
Click to expand...


Was your horsehide properly processed for a strop, or did you use it just as it came from the supplier? Veg-tanned horse 'butt' isn't all that much different from veg-tanned cowhide from the shoulder cut of the hide, although it is a 'bit' more dense. But as there is a higher concentration of natural silicates in horsehide than cowhide, casing and rolling the heck out of it will force those silicates to the surface, and REALLY give you a very different stropping result. And obviously, the better one's skill, the better one's results will be. Don't give up on horsehide.

Horsehide by itself isn't magic. It does have some properties that 'can' make it superior to cowhide, but you have to do some work to bring those properties to the fore. Once you do that, the magic reveals itself. :)


Stitchawl
 
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