Hard Use Folders?

EFD118 said:
A hard use folder,,First Responder, Military use. When working with the USAR. Urban Search and Rescue units, a fixed blade is more appropriate.
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Huh!

It's hard to find reliable sources for what SAR uses. Or at least, this "civ" hasn't had much luck.

Can you point me at some resources that I can learn more from?

I see things like folders with extra tools on the back, like the one Benchmade, but it seems like substantial gloves would be part of the kit, making stuff like that very fiddly to open.

I would more easily believe that you'd go with several less glamorous, but more effective tools: dedicated line cutter, trauma shears, saw, demolition tool if you're urban, but a folding knife would be way down the list.
 
I’ve posted this a few times before in other threads but here it is again.

Im a firefighter/EMT and I have carried a hard use folder in my station pants and in my bunker gear for that last 10 years. I’d say 85% of the time it’s been a Strider SMF. Hard use to me is not so much about the thickness of the blade, (although that is a positive) but also the thickness behind the edge. I have used my knife on duty to cut thick zip ties (.25” and up), scrape off gunk, chip off crystallized DEF fluid, pry open an apartment window, pry the plastic off the interior of a car, break down thick cardboard, cut thick automotive hose, scrape off burned insulation from the inside of a car hood, and the list goes on.

I really like the SMF in particular because of the thick blade with a full flat grind. It splits the difference between the ability to cut and the ability to pry. It has a large pivot for added strength as well as a large handle for a relatively small cutting edge. This makes it easy to use the blade near a patient for clothes cutting during trauma or cardiac arrest, as well maintaining control while cutting and wearing extremely thick firefighting gloves.

And if you are questioning why I don’t use a fixed blade, it’s because it can be drawn with one hand but it always has to be re-sheathed with two. A lot of times it’s not practical to try to fumble around with a sheath (in a low visibility environment like a house fire) to make the knife safe after use. A frame lock is easier and quicker to close and make safe, then dump in a pocket or on the floor near me if necessary.

I’d like to add I’ve never had the lock fail, had a blade break, had a tip snap, or had the G10 on the show side fail in any way after all the use I’ve put my knives through.
 
Silvanus said:
I’ve posted this a few times before in other threads but here it is again.

Im a firefighter/EMT and I have carried a hard use folder in my station pants and in my bunker gear for that last 10 years. I’d say 85% of the time it’s been a Strider SMF. Hard use to me is not so much about the thickness of the blade, (although that is a positive) but also the thickness behind the edge. I have used my knife on duty to cut thick zip ties (.25” and up), scrape off gunk, chip off crystallized DEF fluid, pry open an apartment window, pry the plastic off the interior of a car, break down thick cardboard, cut thick automotive hose, scrape off burned insulation from the inside of a car hood, and the list goes on.

I really like the SMF in particular because of the thick blade with a full flat grind. It splits the difference between the ability to cut and the ability to pry. It has a large pivot for added strength as well as a large handle for a relatively small cutting edge. This makes it easy to use the blade near a patient for clothes cutting during trauma or cardiac arrest, as well maintaining control while cutting and wearing extremely thick firefighting gloves.

And if you are questioning why I don’t use a fixed blade, it’s because it can be drawn with one hand but it always has to be re-sheathed with two. A lot of times it’s not practical to try to fumble around with a sheath (in a low visibility environment like a house fire) to make the knife safe after use. A frame lock is easier and quicker to close and make safe, then dump in a pocket or on the floor near me if necessary.

I’d like to add I’ve never had the lock fail, had a blade break, had a tip snap, or had the G10 on the show side fail in any way after all the use I’ve put my knives through.
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Great answer - this is the kind of explanation I was hoping for. Thanks!

-Tyson
 
I don't think it's anybody's business what knives other folks like. If you just use your Busse as a letter opener, it's also not up for discussion because, you know, the money... it's theirs.
 
I don’t really look at my hard-use folders as invitations to abuse my knives. Quite simply, I like the beefiness, that’s pretty much all there is to it. I use knives for the same things most dudes out there use them for: open boxes, cut rope, occasional food prep. Very rarely, I use them to impress family members who I know won’t freak out at the sight of big blades.

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And sometimes you don't get to choose the time and place for an emergency...your own, or a call out when you're off duty and away from home etc. Sure, most times we had a go bag, especially when I was still on SRT, but the fact remains, that just like an active shooter event, it's not always going to be you that calls the tune. At a time like that a rugged knife "might" be of use. If not, that's fine too.

Anyway, you can overthink this. It's perfectly okay to like what you like, carry what you like, use what you like.

Fortunately, I have stuff to cover pretty much any arena, so I agree with everybody. (Well, most everybody.)
 
I don't use my "hard use folders" and I hope that I never do. I will give an example. A few years ago, a crazy was shooting people at random, came onto the college campus and was shot to death by campus police. So, of course, the school response was to put politically correct written advisories in the classrooms about active shooters! I put a full serrated Spyderco Police model in my rolling suit case with my books. And, I always carry a Spyderco Endura in a pocket. I have a couple of Police Models under the computer desk as well.

I could have put one of my Emerson designed Benchmade knives in my pocket, but the balloon hasn't gone up and I would hate to lose one. Purchased I think 6 at $60 each years ago.
 
Funny, now that I think on it, I think the only knives I was issued by Uncle during my 27 years in his employ were a Gerber LST, a Griptilian, a USN Mk 3 fixed blade, (don't ask, I gave it to Fred Perrin as a gift while in Paris), a Victorinox Tinker and a Leatheman Tool.

Good thing I had my own. At least you could pry with the USN Mk 3, though I never tried it.
 
Hmmm - cutting thick plastic jugs, reinforced plastic tubing, scotch brite pads, aluminum impregnated cardboard, tons of heavy corrugated boxes, scoring and reaming pvc or metal pipes, removing hogrings because my boss was too much of a cheap asshole to buy the right tool, loosening oil filters (got one that’s welded on and no access to another tool? Poke a stout knife right through it and push on the handle. It’ll come off).

Plenty of other stuff, but that’s what I could think of off the top of my head.
 
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When I was an Infantryman in OIF I AND OIF III I carried an Emerson Super Commander and a Randall Model 1. Afterwards, I put the Randall in a box and carried the Emerson as a Paramedic for about 10 years. When I stopped doing EMS and got an office job, I had Emerson replace the blade in the SC, put it in my nightstand drawer where it has stayed ever since. I don’t really like tactical knives, never did. They’re ugly and overbuilt, and very few are a pleasure to cut with. I have a couple of frame locks for yard work or when I’m doing some sort of labor activity, but prefer to carry refined knives now. I have a couple of Rocksteads and a sleek William Henry that I love these days.
 
First, I’m not into labels. I buy knives for an intended purpose, although I feel my 940-1 has a little bit of “cool factor” to it.:)

With that said, I do own one folder that would fall into your “hard use” category. CS 4-MAX. Bought specifically for landscaping chores. I constantly run into little woody stems that require light chopping and the heavy bladed 4-MAX fits the bill. I slice open tree containers which would be more fatiguing with my everyday work blade (Manix 2). Also, it is much easier to carry all day compared to my 6.5” fixed blade, which it replaced. It also slices much better than the fixed blade so using it for “normal” tasks is a breeze.

I’m not worried about failing locks, I don’t pry with my folders, and “cool factor” doesn’t enter into the equation.

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Tyson A Wright said:
Not worried about what anybody else does, not criticizing them, I'm just curious what it is that requires a hard use folder. I can't quite envision anything that would actually necessitate this, so I'm open to hear what it is.
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I just find a larger folder to be more comfortable and hand filling than a dainty one. It’s not like we are required to hike 30 miles a day to survive. Carrying a few extra ounces as you drive or sit in an office, or take a casual hike is not much of a challenge. Indulge yourself.

n2s
 
Used her for working around the acreage, and in the barn when I had horses. Cut countless hay bales ropes, fell in the dirt and horsesh***, used the handle to pummel the ice of the water trough during winter in central AB, cut many plastic containers, spread Nutella on my pancakes, opened many envelopes, split wires, cut my bacon... Not the most hardcore applications I guess but well, she is stll there

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I bought a Cold Steel 4Max Scout with the intention of taking it camping, I wouldn't baton with it though, but mainly I got it because it's cool, like a novelty item. It's impressive no doubt. But I doubt it will ever see actual hard use, maybe some light chopping and stuff. It's kind of like when you walk past a burger place and they sell "The biggest burger in the city" you kind of want to see just how big it really is, even if you don't plan on eating all 15 lbs of it.
 
FullMetalJackass said:
Used her for working around the acreage, and in the barn when I had horses. Cut countless hay bales ropes, fell in the dirt and horsesh***, used the handle to pummel the ice of the water trough during winter in central AB, cut many plastic containers, spread Nutella on my pancakes, opened many envelopes, split wires, cut my bacon... Not the most hardcore applications I guess but well, she is stll there

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There's something about the order of the chain of events that unsettles me, like how it fell in horse**** before being used to spread what you hope was just nutella on your bread haha.
Just messing with you, I think I would be annoyed if my CRK fell into horse crap honestly.
 
Thank you for the replies. This was informative. It seems like several main categories of answers (with a lot of people using multiple categories):
1. Here's a bunch of things hard use folders are good for, and why I'd rather have a folder than fixed for these activities.
2. I just like big knives, and there's no downside for me, so why not?
3. None of your business and we shouldn't talk about it.

Categories 1 & 2 were helpful to me understanding and appreciating these knives better - thanks again for those answers.

Category 3 seems like an odd position to take on a forum that discusses knives, but if you thought I was trying to pick on you, I get it. But I just wanted to understand better, and now I do.

-Tyson
 
I like the strength of the CS Recon 1 models. I wondered about how tough they were so I picked up a tanto version with FDE G10 handles and beat the crap out of it. I stabbed it through the metal lid of a BBQ grill I was throwing out about a dozen times and it punched through with authority. Then I stabbed it into the lid and took a hammer and pounded it sideways slicing through the metal for about 15 or 20 inches. I was curious about the strength of the Carpenter XHP steel too. After beating on it the pivot screw needed a slight tightening but the Dempko lock held strong and after I tightened the pivot up a bit the lock seemed to self-adjust and it functioned exactly as it did before the abuse. The edge was dulled up and damaged but all it took was some work on the arkansas stones to get it back to hair-popping sharp. I was convinced so I bought another one with OD Green G10 handles and a spear point blade. I used that one to gut, skin and break down a road killed button buck one year and it worked perfectly. I ended up sending the tanto point one to my cousin's son while he was on deployment to Syria. He told me about a few things he did with it and seemed to like it a lot and brought it back with him. Sadly he took his life last year. RIP Zach. I consider the CS Recon 1 to be a hard use folding knife and I have a lot of faith in the Triad lock. My biggest problem with the Recon 1 (and other CS knives I've had) is the clip. I think their clips are the worst junk and I can't stand them. So I end up never carrying my Recon 1 even though I love the knife itself.

Another thought I have had about "hard use" folders is this: here in Michigan it is illegal to carry a fixed blade knife unless it is a hunting knife and you are actually in the field hunting. At least, that is my understanding of the law. I think it is beyond stupid and completely without reason. Maybe I'm missing something, but that is the way I have read and interpret the law. Of course I am not an attorney and not attempting to give any legal advice to anyone. I always used to look at the Benchmade Adamas and thought "Man, that is a sweet knife!!" But when I actually thought about it or handled it I thought there is no way I would do ANYTHING with this knife that I wouldn't prefer to do with a fixed blade. So I never bought one. Same goes for that crazy Spyderco hard use folder the Shemp TUFF. That thing is a beast too, but again I would rather use a fixed blade for any kind of heavy chopping or batoning. HOWEVER, due to libtard Michigan's stupid anti-fixed blade EDC laws I have considered the possibility of buying something like the Adamas or the TUFF and having a custom kydex sheath made for it so I could simply leave it open and locked and EDC it as a fixed blade. But since it is actually a folder it would be Michigan legal to carry anywhere (except De-toilet or Lansing because, again, Michigan's pathetic knife laws fail to override moronic city laws with state pre-emption and those two cities prohibit blades >3").

Sorry for the tldr; I always ramble on. I'm currently EDC'ing an Ontario RAT 1 in AUS8 which I think it a pretty tough knife itself. I once saw a video by some Russian guy who did a torture test between a RAT 1 and a Spyderco Tenacious. I was pretty impressed with how the RAT 1 did. I left this RAT 1 that I'm carrying stuck in the ground by a fire once and fell asleep and the handle got burned but it didn't melt to pieces or anything. Just blackened and burnt, but still works perfectly fine otherwise. I wouldn't hesitate to do some light batoning with it, say to split up some small pieces of pine or something. I don't consider the RAT 1 to be a "hard use folder" compared to stuff like the Adamas or TUFF or whatever else in that category but I bet it is capable of handling most rough and tumble tasks a guy would want to use a knife for and if it did break you could have 5 or 6 more in your drawer at home to replace it with since they still only cost about $25 each.

Good thread, thanks for bringing it up!
 
Blues said:
Fred Perrin
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:)There's a video somewhere (unless it's been removed) of Fred throwing Cold Steel American Lawman folders into a wooden fence , repeatedly and hard . :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:

No damage to the knives . :p

Try that with whatever regular folder you usually carry . :rolleyes:

It's not even one of CS's beefier folders . It's an easy carry folder and slices quite well . Not at all "overbuilt " or a "pocket anchor" .

Just a very well designed , strong and reliable folder .

Cold Steel has many such "hard use" folders that are fully functional for most EDC chores , but also can hold up to hard work , emergency , survival and SD .

Nearly as strong as many regular fixed blades , although not as clean or simple .

Not everyone can or will carry a fixed blade , but might still want as much strength and reliability as possible .

 
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