Hard Use Folders?

[DocJD]

 

[Blues]

 

[Norcaldude]

I think in many cases it's a thought process that says "If I have a big badass knife then people will think I'm a big badass person."

 

[Wannabe Rambo Guy]

I think I generally know what people have in mind when they talk about 'hard use' fixed blade knives - chopping, batoning, stabbing boots full of pork chops, whatever. But what are you doing with your 'hard use' folding knives? I see some people who are very concerned about what kind of lock they have, because they're really worried about lock failure. I've seen the same thing with blade thickness - 'hard use' folders seem to have really thick blades, so they don't break.

I have carried both locking and non-locking folders, and I don't really worry about the knife folding up in use either way. I don't need the extra weight or worse ergonomics of a hard use lock, because it doesn't offer any benefits (to me) over a more basic lock (or even a slipjoint). I've broken one blade on a pocketknife in my life, when I was a kid, and it's never happened since then, no matter how thin the blade is. But thick blade steel sure does make for a worse slicer.

So, for those of you who like 'hard use' folders, what are you doing with them? Is there a real use case that makes these tradeoffs useful? Or is it just because they're cool?

Thanks,

-Tyson

I'd call my work knife (Kershaw Blur), my hard use knife. I work in construction now, so the blade does take a beating, and it's done well for me. All my thick spined knives are my fixed blades

 

[Danke42]

Huh!

It's hard to find reliable sources for what SAR uses. Or at least, this "civ" hasn't had much luck.

Can you point me at some resources that I can learn more from?

I see things like folders with extra tools on the back, like the one Benchmade, but it seems like substantial gloves would be part of the kit, making stuff like that very fiddly to open.

I would more easily believe that you'd go with several less glamorous, but more effective tools: dedicated line cutter, trauma shears, saw, demolition tool if you're urban, but a folding knife would be way down the list.

US Coast Guard Rescue Swimmers can use this.

 

[afishhunter]

I'm not sure if it qualifies as "hard use" ....

Back in High School auto shop in '72/'73, my junior year ... (and vocational auto shop, '73/'74, my senior year) I used my Buck 110 or a (2 blade) Barlow or a stockman to cut hoses, fan belts, scrape head, carburetor, intake, and exhaust manifold gaskets, and clean up the heads or manifolds, cut and strip up to 6 gauge multi strand wire, strip battery cables, clean battery posts, (I used my stockman or a Barlow to clean the battery cable terminals) knock the carbon out of sparkplugs and open the electrodes up a little. Also used them in welding shop to scribe lines on the steel, and in machine shop to de-burr edges. I also used them to peel critters if I got any during hunting season, carve "emergency" tent stakes, make feather sticks, clean fish, cut Braided Dacron and Nylon Mono fishing lines, etc.

After high school I used my knives the same when I was a fabrication welder, had a small landscaping/tree trimming/removal business.
One of my former employers had a small 72 foot over deck Ketch charter vessel. I used the 110, Barlow, Stockman, or a Marlin Spike when working on the lines/halyards (triple strand and double braided) and splicing them as needed, and to dig old grease out of the single and two speed winches when I had to rebuild them. Also to cut and strip electrical wire for the 12VDC and 110VAC circuits, scrape 3M 5200 from hatches when they needed re-bedded ...

I never broke a blade or had the 110's lock fail ... or a slipjoint try to fold on my fingers.

I didn't use them to pry or baton them.

 

[MolokaiRider]

I’ve been pretty enamored with the Cold Steel Bush Ranger. It’s a stout and solid folder.

A couple of things make it a bit of a tool that makes me realize it has a more purpose driven role.

It’s pretty thick, and therefore doesn’t cut all that great. The handle is very comfortable and hand-filling, but is bulky in the pocket.

But if I felt the urge to bash and abuse the knife, I feel like it would take that abuse much better that many other folders.

I still need some more time messing with it to say this with confidence. The factory edge crumbled into jagged chunks after cutting up some cardboard. I reset the edge after removing a bunch of steel, so we will see how it holds up.

 

[digital9ja]

I never broke a blade or had the 110's lock fail ... or a slipjoint try to fold on my fingers.

I shot a 6 point one year and used a 2x4 to hammer the tip of my 110 through the pelvic bone. That tip is so fine I was nervous it was going to break but I wanted to see how it would do. It sliced through that bone like a hot knife through butter. The tip didn't bend or twist in any way. Buck sure knows 420HC and they also cryo-treat their signature models like the 110 Hunter and some others. I originally thought of my 110 when I saw this thread. It's like the original hard use folder! Thanks for bringing it up, good call sir.

 

[DocJD]

I think in many cases it's a thought process that says "If I have a big badass knife then people will think I'm a big badass person."

Most people serious about SD practice conflict avoidance , so normally keep their weapons and skills well concealed in public .

The element of surprise is thus preserved . And no challenge or invitation to fight is broadcast .

Anyway ...what matters ain't who's baddest , it's the ones keep you from fallin' from your ladder .

 

[lonestar1979]

Vintage knives were made to last...lots of new stuff is just for one time use or whatever....am trying to get vintage puma or ruana....modern knives do not interest me anymore,and most supersteels are just mostly hype and marketing...good heattreat with good thin geometry and proven steel outperforms thick modern stuff...

 

[lonestar1979]

I shot a 6 point one year and used a 2x4 to hammer the tip of my 110 through the pelvic bone. That tip is so fine I was nervous it was going to break but I wanted to see how it would do. It sliced through that bone like a hot knife through butter. The tip didn't bend or twist in any way. Buck sure knows 420HC and they also cryo-treat their signature models like the 110 Hunter and some others. I originally thought of my 110 when I saw this thread. It's like the original hard use folder! Thanks for bringing it up, good call sir.

Bucks geometry is good too....420hc is fine for anything,easy to sharpen and touchup....geometry rules,lots of pple dont understand it,and bucks other steels are very good too,d2,s30v,s35vn,5160,and also 440c in vintage models...

 

[Easy_rider]

Vintage knives were made to last...lots of new stuff is just for one time use or whatever....am trying to get vintage puma or ruana....modern knives do not interest me anymore,and most supersteels are just mostly hype and marketing...good heattreat with good thin geometry and proven steel outperforms thick modern stuff...

thats so true

 

[Mossyhorn]

A couple of of Benchmade knives come to to mind. The Skirmish and Ruckus are both very solid knives.

 

[stabman]

I've used the thicker tip on certain folders for prying that the tip could handle when fixing a kitchen counter, or removing the peeling laminate for a table, things like that. Not something that would stress the lock, and not prying that would require a pry bar, but something beyond what a knife tip like on my Spyderco Military would take.

I have done more heavy cutting with the Spyderco Military due to grind and handle ergonomics than with many of my other folders, though. I would consider it a "Hard Use" knife for using hard, just not prying.

Reasonable prying or twisting the edge to pop up a staple or piece of wood held with a small nail is something that the thicker stock and stouter tip on some knives can be used for.

 

[stabman]

The term "Hard Use" needs defining too.

For some it is forcefully cutting through lots of material.
For some it means prying (remember a couple years of that being popular). But then do we mean prying with the tip, or "whole blade" prying, hmmm?
For some it means batoning...but then batoning needs defining too.

Or does it mean stabbing meat boots and cutting through thick leather jackets on dummies?

For me, a "Hard Use" folder is one that I can rely on for woods use, using it for everything I don't feel like using a saw or large fixed blade for. The Spyderco Military, ZT 0561, ZT 0804CF, Medford 187 Drop Pont Tanto, CRK Umnumzaan, Spyderco Mini Manix, they all count as far as I'm concerned. Others as well. They all have varying stock thickness, grind types, locks, etc., but they all will carve wood for hours and still have an edge with no damage afterwards.

 

[Tyson A Wright]

The term "Hard Use" needs defining too.

For some it is forcefully cutting through lots of material.
For some it means prying (remember a couple years of that being popular). But then do we mean prying with the tip, or "whole blade" prying, hmmm?
For some it means batoning...but then batoning needs defining too.

Or does it mean stabbing meat boots and cutting through thick leather jackets on dummies?

For me, a "Hard Use" folder is one that I can rely on for woods use, using it for everything I don't feel like using a saw or large fixed blade for. The Spyderco Military, ZT 0561, ZT 0804CF, Medford 187 Drop Pont Tanto, CRK Umnumzaan, Spyderco Mini Manix, they all count as far as I'm concerned. Others as well. They all have varying stock thickness, grind types, locks, etc., but they all will carve wood for hours and still have an edge with no damage afterwards.

If you read the first post, that was supposed to be the point of this thread - I'm not really asking for your favorite hard use folder. I'm asking people who talk about that or who worry about whether a particular knife is tough enough to explain what they mean by 'hard use' - what do they actually do with these knives?

-Tyson

 

[Black Oak Bladeworks]

I guess I have a different definition that most. For me the term "hard use" is a folding knife that you are use a lot, and for just about everything. Its less about the knife style and more about the time the user has spent with it. You don't really care about its looks you just want it to work and handle any task you might reasonably use a knife for. Some knives are built with more robust specs than others, but I would just consider those tougher/overbuilt blades.

I don't think that is your point though. I might be considered a "hard use"/Overbuilt shopper. I do construction and I do carry a fixed blade sometimes. But usually I find a pocket knife to be more convenient. Its smaller over all, and easier to put back with one hand than trying to put a fixed blade back. Especially during winter with extra layers to try and dig through. I rarely cut super tough things, its just lots of little stuff. I use a pocket knife mostly for boxes, cardboard, wood carving, wire stripping, opening bags, caulk, cutting foam, shims, etc. There maybe a couple "emergence" cases of drywall, cement bags, and other things to...

For me the blade has to be strong enough to do those tasks. I don't think they have to be super thick, but some guys like them thick anyway so they can use them as a pry bar. I do really like a robust pocket clip though, with at least 3 screws because I catch them a lot and they take a lot of abuse. Lock strength isn't super importation to me so long as they are not closing on my hand. I also like them to be operable with one hand. (My current pocket knife carry is a spyderco manix 2XL. Its about 3/16 shorter than new from resharpening over about a 2 year period.)

A lot of it is personal preference, with some marketing thrown in to in my opinion.

 

[Londinium Armoury]

Vintage knives were made to last...lots of new stuff is just for one time use or whatever....am trying to get vintage puma or ruana....modern knives do not interest me anymore,and most supersteels are just mostly hype and marketing...good heattreat with good thin geometry and proven steel outperforms thick modern stuff...

I agree with the built to last part, I have an old Taylors Eye Witness British Army knife from WW2, and this thing is more solid and well made than any modern slipjoint I've ever handled, has stronger spring and snap as well and it's an antique still working and going strong.
I used to think old steel was better as well, but since I've started doing somewhat controlled testing, I've found that's not true and is kind of a romantic myth. I've put old steel up against modern alloys and the old stuff just can't compete at all. It's good don't get me wrong, it works, and takes a great edge and is pretty tough etc. But for example when I test old carbon steel on antiques and put it head to head with K390, M2 etc it just plain loses in every test. IT does not have as good edge stability, not as good edge retention, fine or working edge, not as tough, and has way less wear resistance.
I do like old steels, they have a place and are well respected, but the truth is modern steels obliterate them in every single way, they really do, no old carbon is going to out perform K390 or a properly heat treated modern tool steel.