"Hard Use Knife" -Again

[Picksmith]

I'm tempted to get one just to play with, check out the new lock, and maybe to carry when I go into the city where there is a 3" legal limit even for folders.

Might have to strip that blade coating off, though.

That's what I did after I saw STR's. Blade was easy enough with paint stipper and a rag, the bolster takes some scotchbrite though.

 

[Presumed_Lost]

That's what I did after I saw STR's. Blade was easy enough with paint stipper and a rag, the bolster takes some scotchbrite though.

"Bolster" meaning the spacer-whatsit at the pommel-end? Might have been anodized, I'd guess. Looks good, but.. why is the blade still marked?

 

[ocnLogan]

Well, just another thought, but you could try finding a slightly larger folder that you like (sturdy, etc), and then shorten the blade a bit to make it under 3in.

Not sure if you have the means to do that, but you could easily take a 3 1/4in blade down to just under 3in without tons of work.

Just throwing that out there.

 

[allyourblood]

Looks good, but.. why is the blade still marked?

Most knives with teflon/DLC/black-stuff coatings have the same information (brand, model, steel) etched or printed on the blade beneath the coating as well, which is actually kinda cool. I suppose it's for when the coating inevitably comes off with hard or prolonged use.

 

[shunsui]

What ? No bottle opener ?

 

[Picksmith]

"Bolster" meaning the spacer-whatsit at the pommel-end? Might have been anodized, I'd guess. Looks good, but.. why is the blade still marked?

Dunno why I said bolster... yes, the aluminum pommel. It takes as much to remove that mark as it does to polish off the anodizing, but I like the little logo on that one. Erased it from the Lawman.

 

[STR]

So we all have an idea of what a "hard use knife" is, but there seems to be a bit of difference in opinion when it comes to specifics.

I'm going to throw the question out there, but with an important difference.

Blade must be 3" or less, since that makes it legal for most places.
Stainless or coated blade
Standard stones for sharpening (not so hard that you need diamond or ceramic)
Tip, blade, edge, pivot pin, and lock mechanism must withstand continous application of at least 200 lbs of twisting and prying force, and momentary, but repeated, force of 500 lbs, as would be applied to the spine during batoning.
Price must be less than $80, since at that price, you can use it without worrying too much about losing it.
Must have a wide pocket clip, and the larger the clip is in every direction, the better.

Handle materials, assisted opening, serrations, are not important.
Suggestions?

Cold Steel Triad Locking Mini AK47. Its all you need and it brings the fun factor to the mix being that you can open it kinetically by your own pocket or someone else's clothing.

The Mini Lawman is nice but I like the fun of the mini AK thumb plate. The size is a little more appealing also as is the blade shape and handle shape. These are the hardest use smaller knives you'll ever find right here! Either one will do a lot more than the size would indicate.
STR

 

[STR]

Well, just another thought, but you could try finding a slightly larger folder that you like (sturdy, etc), and then shorten the blade a bit to make it under 3in.

Not sure if you have the means to do that, but you could easily take a 3 1/4in blade down to just under 3in without tons of work.

Just throwing that out there.

Actually some have done this using a Large Voyager Tanto blade model and then turning that tanto into a Wharncliffe shape doing away with the point. The end result is a blade about 3" or so that ends up being one of those shorter blade larger handle looking ideas but it does work to give one the leverage of a bigger knife with a smaller more sheeple friendly blade.

STR

 

[Presumed_Lost]

Most knives with teflon/DLC/black-stuff coatings have the same information (brand, model, steel) etched or printed on the blade beneath the coating as well, which is actually kinda cool. I suppose it's for when the coating inevitably comes off with hard or prolonged use.

Time was when "brand new" meant that the fragile paper, ink, or at most paint trademark was still visible, meaning that the item had been hardly used or not at all.

These days, in many consumer goods the logo/brand/trademark is likely to be the most durable and enduring part of the product. I guess it figures. There was a time people could judge quality by how something wore over time. Now we have very little that wears, we chuck anything that doesn't look new, and we judge quality only by the brand names..

Maybe Cold Steel should be using whatever they use for the trademark to coat the freakin' blades...

 

[Presumed_Lost]

Actually some have done this using a Large Voyager Tanto blade model and then turning that tanto into a Wharncliffe shape doing away with the point. The end result is a blade about 3" or so that ends up being one of those shorter blade larger handle looking ideas but it does work to give one the leverage of a bigger knife with a smaller more sheeple friendly blade.

STR

That got me to thinking (which often has unfortunate consequences).

Variations of this theme keep coming up. LOTS of folks live in places where 3" is the legal limit for a carried folder, but of course "knife nuts" (and those of us with large hands) understand that the need for handle length doesn't scale down with the blade length (nor do our hands). CS seems to mostly take that into account, but most manufacturers seem to just scale the handle down proportionately for the "mini" versions of their knives, which really doesn't make sense if you want one for serious use.

What might be cool... I wonder if one of the folks making, say, Griptilian scale sets on CNC setups (like Kevin Wilkins in Germany) might be persuaded to consider a limited run of full-size Griptilian scales, but with the insides of the scales inlet/routed for the mechanism of the mini-Grip (line) instead? He does both, so he already has the programming for both... it would require a thinner pommel spacer, and certainly some work to set up, but I would think it would be a lot less work than a from-scratch project since he's got all the programming, and the buyer would end up with a truly unique, sturdy, short-bladed (widely legal) folder, with a wide choice of blades and options supplied by Benchmark.

I just got my Wilkins scales and held them up against a Ritter mini-Grip, and it doesn't look bad at all... in fact, it looks pretty good.

 

[STR]

That got me to thinking (which often has unfortunate consequences).

Variations of this theme keep coming up. LOTS of folks live in places where 3" is the legal limit for a carried folder, but of course "knife nuts" (and those of us with large hands) understand that the need for handle length doesn't scale down with the blade length (nor do our hands). CS seems to mostly take that into account, but most manufacturers seem to just scale the handle down proportionately for the "mini" versions of their knives, which really doesn't make sense if you want one for serious use.

What might be cool... I wonder if one of the folks making, say, Griptilian scale sets on CNC setups (like Kevin Wilkins in Germany) might be persuaded to consider a limited run of full-size Griptilian scales, but with the insides of the scales inlet/routed for the mechanism of the mini-Grip (line) instead? He does both, so he already has the programming for both... it would require a thinner pommel spacer, and certainly some work to set up, but I would think it would be a lot less work than a from-scratch project since he's got all the programming, and the buyer would end up with a truly unique, sturdy, short-bladed (widely legal) folder, with a wide choice of blades and options supplied by Benchmark.

I just got my Wilkins scales and held them up against a Ritter mini-Grip, and it doesn't look bad at all... in fact, it looks pretty good.

Yes the large handle shorter blade concept has its fans! I'm one of them. I see this concept in other knives out there already though with the CQC14 by Emerson and the Para Military 1 version which both to me are prime examples of this concept and how well it can work. I too have big hands. Not huge but I can palm a basketball so big enough and I prefer knives of this nature that fit my hand but not necessarily a large blade. Most of my edc knives are 3" plus or minus by very little. The Dodo by Spyderco was another great one that fit this concept well. With a more useful blade design that same handle could be utilized in some of the knives currently made by simply making one blade that fits multiple handle options.

Unfortunately companies don't see the market in this quite well enough so maybe we need to point that out to them. Hinderer seems to have caught on to this because you can't tell me he isn't doing a booming business with scales and so is Wilkins. I make on average a pretty good living doing just titanium gadgets and pocket clips and have practically dropped knife making from my resume because these side markets are so huge so to me with the times we live in anything that keeps the pay checks going is worthy of a look see.

STR

 

[Cutshaw]

What is the source for the longitudinal toughness and how were the samples treated. Crucible lists 440C/154CM/S30V as all being the same in that regard (C-notch) in the S30V data sheet at "about 25-28 ft.lbs".

The transverse measurement is mainly meaningless because knives are not heavily loaded along that orientation in use. It was promoted heavily by Crucible just because it is favorable to their steels.

No one would actually argue S30V has shown itself to be 4 times as tough as 154CM in use which shows that statistic to be hype. It would in fact be difficult to argue that the user reports even support the conclusion it is as durable.

-Cliff

Sorry... I had a flashback.

 

[Shorttime]

Whaddya know! It's still going....

Grinding down a too-long knife to the right size. Hmmmm...

 

[Presumed_Lost]

Whaddya know! It's still going....

The the threads on the subject of "hard use" folders seem to attract a lot of interest, and clearly there's still untapped market there, as evidenced by all of the manufacturers increasingly moving in that direction. Even for the military, there's been less and less wilderness combat and more and more urban as the decades go by. Whether for compactness, concealment or just PR, folders make more sense all the time, and tough times require tough tools.

All in all, it's an amazing amount of interest considering that there are still those who insist that the subject matter- the "sturdy folder", does not exist and can never exist... but, then, human nature being what it is, I'm sure that to this day someone, somewhere is insisting that none of the developments we've made since we used sharp rocks are really trustworthy.

 

[OrdnanceBubbaUSMC]

I agree with the larger handle, a cheap knife with a large enough handle works better for me than one with a 4" or smaller handle - always goes back to the pinky being the most important part of the grip.

 

[Shorttime]

I admit, I crashed and burned: my intention was to see if there was a simple answer to the question of "what hard use folder...", by putting in some specifications which seemed acceptable for those who had to put their knife through some abuse.

As Marcinek and others pointed out, it's pretty much impossible, given the wide variety of opinions represented here. The concensus seems more or less to be the CS Lawman, or the mini AK, which has the advantage of already being the right blade length.

But what I realized is that there is another message:

DON'T PRY WITH YOUR KNIFE, YOU HAM-HANDED GOON!

People really get wound up when you suggest putting some lateral force on that blade.

So the next time somebody starts a thread about "hard use folders" or some such thing, I'll have two answers.

1) Try something from Cold Steel with a Triad Lock.
2) If you use it to pry something apart, don't tell anyone!

Thanks, again, everyone; it keeps me laughing!

 

[InfantryMyers]

haha the only knives i own that are under 3 inches are my spyderco bug, honeybee and grasshopper lol but im about to get the Kershaw OD-2

 

[ShooterMcgavin]

...The concensus seems more or less to be the CS Lawman, or the mini AK, which has the advantage of already being the right blade length...

What about the CS Medium Voyager? That is right at 3", not 2.75", so it seems like a great option. Do people think it is less tough or less capable than the others for some reason? I'd like to know.

 

[InfantryMyers]

What about the CS Medium Voyager? That is right at 3", not 2.75", so it seems like a great option. Do people think it is less tough or less capable than the others for some reason? I'd like to know.

nah the Voyager is one of the toughest folders there is im loving my large

 

[Presumed_Lost]

2) If you use it to pry something apart, don't tell anyone!

Corollary: If you need a knife that someday might have to use for something it wasn't strictly designed for, DON'T ASK ANYONE!