Hard use/wilderness knives and hollow grinds

I've had a few hollow ground knives, including a couple Siberts, they were great woods blades. I just prefer a full flat grind in general. Some people like Scandi, some like hollow, some like convexed edges etc.
 
pitdog said:
I think the Bob Dozier Wilderness knife is hollow ground !
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Indeed it is. But with thicker stock as this particular model was intended as a "one knife" carry- a well rounded knife that will handle most outdoor (hunting/ camping/ survival) chores. Bob has always said that it is equally important to choose the proper tool for the proper job. But most should know that already. And that a small axe is best for chopping and splitting. I agree.

And do prefer the hollow grind above all. :D

N.

www.dozierknives.com/forum
 
By reading some of these posts it seems that people are confusing hollow ground blades and hollow ground edges there is a diffrence you can have a convex blade with a hollow ground beveled edge or vice -versa same with a flat ground blade with a v bevel or hollow ground edge or a convex edge the same can be said for all the other blade grinds also. Like my old Puma Prince folder for example hollow ground saber grind blade with very fine v-beveled edge:D all combo's are possible
 
Mike, trying to cut a hollow-ground (concave) secondary bevel is possible, but not easy compared to a flat or convex seconady bevel.

I have never seen a knife with a hollow-ground secondary bevel.
 
I think Buck knives use a hollow grind and they are a trusted outdoors knife, but I think their heat treat makes the difference though.
 
Fiddleback said:
Its no big deal. I just disagree. It happens.

I agree that hollow grinds, having the thinnest cross section, penetrate better, and slice better, all other things equal. IMO, this benefit is minimal though.

But the binding I disagree on. And having the least steel in corss section makes that grind the weakest, all other things equal.

As I said above though, its by far the most popular grind, so you hollow grind guys are lucky. Your choices in the knifemaker crowd are virtually limitless.
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I agree with FB about convex not binding. It wasn't until I did a lot of chopping with a valiant golok that I realized just how optimal a convex grind is.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Mike, trying to cut a hollow-ground (concave) secondary bevel is possible, but not easy compared to a flat or convex seconady bevel.

I have never seen a knife with a hollow-ground secondary bevel.
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Thomas
I can't find any thing to back it up right now so I could be wrong but I was told years ago that one difference between a flat V-bevel and Hollow ground edge is how its applied to the knife flat V is applied with a bench stone by hand or with a belt sander and a hollow ground edge applied with a sanding/polishing wheel
 
I feel most grinds will get the job done, but I am pretty much in favour of full flat grinds
convexed at the edge.
 
RobbW I have found through LOTS of use that a convex grind has almost no bind as it seperates the material instead of sliding between it. I love it for chopping and tuff use knives as the edge holds up great. I like a hollow grind in a slicer like my Sebbie's.

Sibert's knives are nice...I had one(minion), not my cup of tea for bush use but it was a very well put together knife and i didnt notice any chipping in his S30v. The one I had was very comfortable...I just had others I liked better.

I prefer a flat or convex grind on most knives but that is me.
 
I like hollow grinds for big game work, slicing/kitchen work but when it comes to bull work, chopping, batoning and splitting hard woods, I'll take a convex grind/edge in a heartbeat. I can't say a hollow grind won't work, because I never tried it.
Scott
 
I'll definitely give convex grinds another look. I know how easy they are to keep sharp. Maybe one difference in my experience is that I was cutting smaller stuff, brush and small trees that went down with one or two whacks, not stuff you'd normally use an axe for (I carry and axe in my car for larger stuff). You've all definitely got me thinking.
 
Robb, one thing about convex grinds is how convexed the main grind is. I use to do them on a slack belt but found that the area just above the cutting edge was too robust. Even with a zero edge, they still were too thick to cut efficiently. I've got the rotary platen which gives you flatter convex grinds. Recently I've started flat grinding first on thicker stock (5/32" up to 1/4") then switching over to the rotary to finish the grind. It basically gives you the best of both worlds, flat and convex. Then I finish it off with a convexed edge.
Scott
 
Doesn't Buck advertise their knives as "semi-hollow-ground", with a blade that narrows as you go from the spine to the center, then widens a bit before slimming back down for the edge? A little like a Himalayan Imports Gelbu Special blade geometry?
 
Well, I own a pile of knives with every variety of grinds imaginable. Some I produced myself. They all have advantages and disadvantages, depending on the task at hand. In the butcher shop, here on the ranch, we use flat grinds only with a toothy edge. There is nothing better in the butcher shop, period.

I have used several of my hollow-grind blades under hard-use conditions -- depending on your definition of "hard-use." No, I don't pry with any of my blades, nor attack concrete blocks or automobiles. My primary blade in my pilots survival vest during Vietnam was a hollow-ground blade. These were poor blades at that time...not because of their hollow grinds, but, because of their poor heat treats. I did use my Buck 110 HARD, during, and after Vietnam, and it did everything one could reasonably ask out of a blade that size. I still use hollow-grind blades a bunch when hunting & fishing and they excel at those tasks.

Full-height convexed grinds and convexed edges are at their best when highly polished. The polished, well-sharpened convexed grinds have tremendous penetrating capabilities and durability, far beyond that of hollow grinds. Hollow grinds will easily bind in many types of woods when used forcibly (not talking about shallow chopping and cutting) . The polished convex-grind, since it has no shoulders and hollows for the wood to grab on to, will easily wedge many woods and other mediums apart...even before contact with the cutting edge. I really enjoy working with the properly done convexed or Scandinavian grinds on many of the woods. One can compare a fully convexed blade, such as the Bark River knives for instance, with a variety of hollow grind blades, either chopping, or woodcraft, and there is a clear distinction in their overall performance.

I have seen literally hundreds of knives come through our leather shop for sheaths. I can't help but notice how these blades are maintained. I can tell a lot about the user, his skills, when I examine the edges on their knives. Truth be told, few users really know how to get the best out of their blades with regards to sharpening! It really wouldn't matter to most users what sort of grind they use! I think it is probably best to use any knife, or tool, within the context for which its creator made it. When we start crossing borders outside of the tools geometry and size capabilities, perhaps we should consider a different, more appropriate tool...if possible. If a catastrophic failure potential exists for ones ONLY outdoor knife, expect compromises at the finer tasks.

BTW, I did find myself in a survival situation with my hollow-ground Buck 110 when my military aircraft was forced down in the remote mountains, many years ago. I, and it, did just fine.:)

Polished and highly efficient.
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Like to hear more about that situation sometime Dannyboy....

I haven't had any issues with S30V myself. My Para-Millie is made of S30V and I've abused that knife pretty badly. Its got full serrations as well, which makes the blade even thinner.

Didn't manage to chip or break it. My wife carries it now, maybe she'll manage to break it :D
 
That's the prototype.It will be in production in late 2008 under the Extrema Ratio brand and fabricated in China. The sheath is likely to be sourced from Survival Sheath Systems/ Spec-Ops. Just trying to wrap up the deal now along with dozens of other things on my plate.

STAGE 2 said:
Moodino, I keep seeing you posting that knife. Is that just a custom you designed or is it something going into production?
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Thanks for your real-word observations. The only disadvantage that Hollow ground blades have over Scandi grinds is processing of wood in bushcraft. It's twice the work to carve with anything other than a scandi. Convex grinds ,however,are the bomb when it coves to processing flesh:D

RobbW said:
A convex edge will bind more than hollow ground because the edge gets thicker much sooner. The hollow ground edge will penetrate wood much more efficiently. As said above, you need the right steel and heat treat for the job though. You also have to be more careful to avoid twisting/prying. Try it sometime with similar-profiled knives where the edges are beveled differently. You'll be surprised at how efficient the hollow ground edges are. I did this clearing brush to make shooting lanes at a range. We had about 30 volunteers, all with at least 1 knife (bowies, kukhris, etc.), and the difference was unbelievable. Cutting efficiency is much better with the hollow grinds.
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