Harley or BMW?

Originally posted by The Tourist
I feel passionately about the work and good will that we did. On one ride, we were horse-playing and knocked a door off of its hinges in a small mom/pop tavern. When our President found out about it, we had to take up a collection, the innocent and the guilty, pay for the door and then apologize to the owner. Does that sound like a 1% club to you?
Tourist: At what point did either I or Blue Jay refer to HD riders and/or 1%? At no time did we ever lump your group in with the 1%. All we did was to confirm our experiences when attending various rallys hosted by various "brands". Each has their own unique character. I just happen to find the BMW ones more to my liking. That's all we said. The rest was implied by you.

Quite honestly, HD riders are the least open among the different motorcycle cultures. My experiences pretty much mirror what Blue Jay described. I'm an Asian American, and once when I attened a rally held at Weir's Beach in Laconia NH, I've got more snide remarks referring to how I should save the Sportster for a real "American" and ride a "rice rocket", than I got decent "hello's". Not the case when I went up the road to camp at Louden and meet up with my non-HD riding friends.

I've been riding for over 20 yrs now. Been an active member of the AMA for 17 yrs. I used to be a member of HOG until I encounter negative racial remarks when attending their functions. I'm also a founding member of www.IBMWR.org, and not once was my race ever mentioned negatively in any of their rallies.

However passoniate you feel about your involvement in your group, it doesn't negate my personal experiences. And my sharing of those experiences.
 
Originally posted by Blue Jays
:) Maybe it is the full-face Arai RX7-RR helmet that draws such animosity?


~ Blue Jays ~

Hey, if they can't appreciate perfection in helmet design, too bad for them! :D I have a Signet GT. I really wish Arai hadn't banned internet sales, because their prices have gone through the roof in stores now. :(
 
Hey Poser, Er...Ichabod...er...Tourist, yeah, that's it, you're coming off all snuggly here in this thread (except for the crack about the Gay guy on the BMW), but for all the time I've been on BFC I can only ever remembering you referring to your days with the club with inferrances as to what badasses you were. Which was it? You sort of infer in this thread that you were ascociated with the H.A.s, is that true?

I may get no respect in this thread as I'm not currently riding, but I have over 100K on two wheels and at one point went several years with no automobiles in my life, but as many as five different bikes at a time. With the exception of a BMW K100 I rode for a few months while selling it for a buddy, they were all Japanese bikes. Everything from a Goldwing to 100cc Yamaha two stroke dirt bikes. I even rode a few Harleys, but never could see putting one in my garage. The Harley "Culture" and exclusionary attitude is real. With the real tough guys, it's probably still about the American Made thing and being a real outlaw. But for the accountants and sales managers that show up at the Sunday morning breakfast spot on their $25,000.00 Hog and every piece of clothing and accessory they own says Harley on it, and they all look like clones of each other, it's about the money. Their attitudes seem to be that if you didn't ride up on a Harley, it's probably because you couldn't afford one. Now I am generalizing, and this is Los Angeles, but that's my opinion. The beamer crowd can also be guilty of snobbery on occasion, but are much more likely in my experience to be open minded about other brands and the people who ride them.

Want to really meet some great guys? Get involved in organized AMA Dual Sport rides. Now that's great fun. Going way into the outback and seeing incredible things with 150 of your closest friends, most of whom you've never met before. You can count on crashes and breakdowns, but everybody just chips in together and like the Marines, no one gets left behind.

I'm not riding these days for a few reasons. It started with a nasty accident in Aug of 1996 where I got T-Boned by a Chevy van doing about 50mph. Broken femur, hip, and several other bones meant I couldn't walk for 3.5 months (but was DAMN lucky to be alive), and couldn't walk right for over a year. By the time I had recovered I had been off bikes for over a year, my 1984 VF-1000F Intercepter had been destroyed in teh crash and I was deeply involved with a small company of which I am now the Vice President As a small company, my ongoing participation is important to the company's success and my (and my family's)long term financial well being. My business life is such that if I had a bike, I wouldn't be able to ride often, and lack of practice makes for dangerous riding. I've already been smashed by a truck once, I'd prefer not to do it again. Perhaps someday life will be organized to the point where I can bring motorcycling back into my life, but for now it's on the sidelines.

While the Harley crowd might have the "Bad Boy" image down, I've met some pretty serious tough guys riding some pretty fast rice burners. What you ride does not define who you are or what you're capable of, for better or worse. Put me on a Hog and I'm still not Sonny Barger. Throw me on a fire breating 500CC Grand Prix bike, and I'm certainly not Kenney Roberts either.

I will say though, if I was heading to the bike shop tomorrow, I'd probably come home with something with two large lumps on the sides and a little fairing and plenty of horsepower and creature comforts from Germany. Sort of a "Gentleman's Express". Of course Honda did finally lighten up the VFR and I've always loved those V4s.....Oh wait, I've also heard some guy named Bloor has sunk a few bucks into Triumph and they're making a passable ride these days.....

jmx
 
Jmxcpter,

You of all people should know the answer to that after all of the debates we have been in together. Taking no guff is not a sign of being evil. After all, is Sharp Phil 'evil' because he could win more fights here amongst the knuts than he would lose?

I'm not mad at you at all, it's a view that most of society has. Supposedly the Angels had business cards with the logo, "When we do good no one remembers, when we do bad no one forgets." The fact that I even have to explain this is typical. A group that likes to ride and have fun doesn't like to pushed by townies.

Seems simple to say, obviously hard to understand. I read Marchinko's book, and obviously drunks tried to pick on his people when they went into saloons. It's one of the reaasons I quit going to bars.

And Jmxcpter, I'll bet some other knut tries to parse this post. They get an idea in their head, no explanation changes their misconception.

edit: There is a better idea for the doubters. Talk to an individual. Ask him how the club was formed, by whom, and what the goals were. Ask him about the WBBA, helmet leglislation and community involvement. Ask him about blood drives and St. Vincent De Paul rides. Ask him about the good work he's done to keep the outlaw influence out of the County. When he's all done, point to the 'MC' on the back of his colors and tell him that it must stand for 'milk and cookies.' Come back here and report your findings.

edit: I re-read this, and it seems harsh. It wasn't meant to be, most of the guys here are debating buddies and disagreeing is part of the fun. If you view my past and decide it was more 'outlaw' than 'in the law,' that's fine, just state your case. (And truth be told, we often had to reply to this same question in my time.)

What does frustrate me is not being able to be understood. You know my example, "If you love Microtechs you must then hate Benchmades." Not all of my friends ride Harleys, not even all of the club members rode Harleys, I rode a Honda Four for one year.

My guess is that most neighborhood clubs are exactly like mine. They are NOT affiliated with Angels, Outlaws or Pagans, but they sure do like to whoop it up. And many ride the traditional black Harley. They are real bikers, and they can be gritty. But I've met more nice guys (even outlaws, gasp!) than I've met pyschopaths. I also get frustrated when I cannot convey to the younger guys that life is usually many shades of gray. That is the thrust of my debate here, minus the adrenaline.
 
Don't normally post in Community Center, but the topic caught my eye.

FWIW, my dad's got an FXDX-T (discontinued recently). He says if he could choose over again, he'd get a Yamaha FJR1300.

Not that there's anything wrong with the HD (the majority of my family rides HD's, my brother in law and I ride sportbikes) but the FJR is a kickass package. Shaft drive, lots of power, adjustable windscreen, hard luggage included, small glove box in fairing, and WAY cheaper than the HD. It's worth a look.

Otherwise, I'd suggest the HD. I'm not a big fan of the BMW's for some reason.


Regards,

Shaun.
 
Wow, this thread has grown! (I almost never check over the weekends).

I stand by what I said about the Harley "culture". It's summed up by the all too familiar "if you don't get it, I can't explain it to you". I do get it. It's not what I'm about. Like I said, I like Harleys. I'd have one in a second if I had the money to afford one. I like the simplicity of the engine (pushrod v-twin) and the classic lines. They're good looking, simple bikes and I appreciate that. I would be a 1%er. Not 1%er you think of but the kind that wears a full face helmet and proper riding gear. The kind that doesn't have a ton of useless chrome and straight pipes. The kind that works on his own bike. The kind that appreciates other motorcyclists no matter what kind of bike they ride, just because they're riding.

I know these kind of people exist in the Harley clan. I've met them and they're great. I've met lots. Real(tm) motorcyclists. I've met lots of the other kind too, judging you by your bike, or your helmet, or your clothes (I guess I do that too in a reverse sort of way). Those are the folks that have soured my view of the Harley culture and one of the reasons I probably won't own a Harley even when I could afford one.

I figure, as long as you're riding and not pissing people off, you're good in my book. I just seem to find more of those folks in my BMW clubs.

An aside to Tonyccw: I didn't know you were involved in the IBMWR. I was a member there for a long time until I couldn't manage all the messages from the list. I have been noticing several of the more prominent members rising in the ranks of the MOA though.

Later,

Rob
 
Originally posted by Dr. Nick
An aside to Tonyccw: I didn't know you were involved in the IBMWR. I was a member there for a long time until I couldn't manage all the messages from the list. I have been noticing several of the more prominent members rising in the ranks of the MOA though.
Rob: IBMWR branched off rec.moto and the Denizens of Doom Motorcycling Club in 1992. A huge number of us just needed a place to discuss BMW motorcycling issues. The number of messages has been getting pretty intense ever since. Not surprising as most BMW riders tends to be computer savvy. It's still a great resource for rides and rallys. For all brands of motorcycles. As for the MOA, it's not surprising, as most of the senior IBMWR member have pretty big following in the world of Club politics. Just not my thing.
 
I ought to know better than to jump into this discussion but I'll share this story and trust that those who have ears will listen. "Personal experience" does not equal "objective experience." I was taught this lesson by my wife and I'm forever greatful, as it's made a big difference in my ability to appreciate diversity - in the world of motorcycles, knives and people. After owning three Hondas and one BMW I bought a Harley Davidson. It was 1990 and I figured I'd ride up to Sturgis for the 50th Annual Black Hills Motor Classic. I got there and after a day or two I called my wife and told her I just didn't fit in with that crowd and had decided to come on back home. My wife said, "Don't be silly. You have something in common with every single person there! You all love motorcycles. Why don't you just try and meet some people. Just walk up, say hello and introduce yourself." I figured she just didn't get it. After all I was one of the very few people there who wouldn't ride without a helmet, etc. etc. etc. Anyway, I told her I was going to get some lunch and would call her later. I rode over to some restaurant and got in line to wait for a table, still feeling very out of place and uncomfortable. But I got to thinking about what my wife had said and I resolved to take her advice. I turned around and looked at the folks behind me and......well, I just said "Hi" and introduced myself. Amazingly, they were friendly and even invited me to join them for lunch! Later we rode over to watch the drag races and I met some more people. Hey, I was on a roll! Later I went walking down the main drag there in Sturgis and I'd see somebody fiddling with their bike and I'd say, "Hey, nice bike!" and a conversation would start up. Long story short, I realized that all the negative stuff I'd been thinking about all those biker dudes and how I didn't fit in and how they probably looked down on me etc. was my own stuff, the stuff in my own head! "Personal experience" ain't sacred, nor is it objective. It's very much colored by our own internal prejudices, fears and insecurities which we tend to project onto others! Same thing in the knife world. If you're into one thing and I'm into another (forged vs stock removal, tactical vs art knives etc.) we can't let that come between us. We all love knives! So now whenever I see someone with their whatever kind of knife - I say (thanks to my wife) "Hey, nice knife! My name's Buddy, what's yours?" The plain and simple truth is I've been a lot happier person ever since Sturgis, 1990, no matter what kind of motorcycle I'm riding or what knife I'm carrying. It's become my #2 rule in life - NO NEGATIVE! So what's my #1 rule, you ask? Well, that's easy! NEVER MISS A MEAL! Happy holidays everybody!
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Well, here's what I ride.

BMW_small.jpg


And here's my feelings on the subject:
I like sport and sport/touring motorcycles best, hence, the K1200RS.
However, I do not dislike cruisers, or HD's specifically. They just do not fit into my riding style at this point in my life.
HD's are great as long as you know their abilities and limitations. I think they're very cool, but so is the Yamaha Road Warrior.
I could see myself buying one or the other some day.
Might also buy a Gold Wing.
I have no brand loyalty and only buy what I like at that point in time.
As for riders, there are good and bad riders on all makes and styles of bikes.
They're all human beings. Merely riding a Harley or Jap sport bike doesn't inherently make a person bad.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Lenny
 
Originally posted by HTMD
"Personal experience" does not equal "objective experience."
Agreed. Yet, the story to illustrate your point was a "personal" one. Glad your lesson was a positive one and it worked out for you. If you read my post on what happened to me at Weir's Beach-Laconia, NH, you'll see that it wasn't quite so positive. Like I said, we all have different experiences.

If what I wrote earlier implied that all HD riders are bad, then you've read too much into it. I've known tons of positive HD riders. One of my LD riding buddies has over 75K miles on his '98 Softtail, and I've probably rode 10K of those with him. I just happen to have the most negative aspects of my riding career coincide with meeting certain types of HD riders. That is all.
 
Originally posted by Lenny
Well, here's what I ride...I like sport and sport/touring motorcycles best, hence, the K1200RS.
However, I do not dislike cruisers, or HD's specifically. They just do not fit into my riding style at this point in my life...


Lenny,

It sounds you ride like a bird flys. :eek:

I ride like I'm sitting in my lounge chair. :D

It all depends on the individual. ;)
 
Hey Lenny, nice bike man! I love that color. Reminds me of the beautiful red BMW R1100 RS I owned. Had the saddle bags painted to match! It was an awesome motorcycle, especially at 125 mph! Stay safe and have fun.

Tony, What's your current ride? From your posts it sounds like a beemer of some kind. Post a pic if possible. What do you think about the new Honda RUNE? Now you guys have caused me to have a relapse of my MCOTB (motorcycles on the brain) disease! Where's my list of MCAnnon. meetings?

Buddy
 
Originally posted by HTMD
Tony, What's your current ride? From your posts it sounds like a beemer of some kind. Post a pic if possible.
93 K75A. Will dig out pic's later on tonight.
 
Lenny, it is a beautiful bike. Tell me something about the comfort of riding a bike that looks like racer over a distance. My only experience with a bike of that sort was a Honda and I felt like was laying on my stomach as I rode it. I found it fairly uncomfortable although I assume one gets used to the riding position. Your bike really appeals to me. I wonder, though, if I'd be comfortable riding it.
 
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