Has a knife ever destroyed your sense of value?

[Insipid Moniker]

My experience is happily contrary to the idea posited in the OP.

Most recent knife purchase was a Condor Kephart, the cheapest fixed blade in my collection barring Mora. Absolutely love this knife. Sanded off the blueing, Danish oiled the scales, reprofiled it, and it is now a very pleasing and functional knife.

I do need to wet mould the sheath, which has practically no retention, but that is hardly rocket surgery.

Also, a couple of years ago I bought a RAT-1. Again, one of the cheapest folders I own, but what a superb knife it is.

The Condor Kephart remains my go to outdoors blade (on the rare occasions I manage to make it outdoors these days). I have many more expensive, 'better' and far prettier fixed blades that will do the same thing, but the humble Kephart just does everything I need it to, does it competently, without much thought and I never worry about damaging or losing it. Just a great, inexpensive interpretation of a truly classic design.

 

[Low_rez]

Again, I respectfully disagree. The percentage of 'Crap', 'Quality' and 'Average' is debatable, but Kershaw and Boker both have differentiated product lines with different price points, QC levels and materials choices. I won't disagree that the number of good quality CRKT knives I seen is a small percent, but even in just the limited number of knives I personally own, I can cite multiple examples of good quality knives from both Kershaw and Boker. And don't forget that in almost every way - a ZT is a Kershaw - just like an Acura is a Honda and a Lexus is a Toyota.

Everybody has different ideas of what a good quality knife is, so I can agree to disagree and respect your opinion. But my opinion is different - at least to a large enough degree to express it.

You are 110% Correct. I have bought several Boker and Kershaw knives that I have enjoyed and even given new ones away as gifts and fully understand your point.

But let's get back on track with the thread. Has a knife ever destroyed your sense of value?

Well, I can't tell you how many Boker knives I have bought for $150+ that have been returned due to bad QC or construction. And let's not talk about the ones I kept that developed problems like lock rock after normal use. I no longer see the value in Boker as a whole. Yes, there will be an occasional model that is done right on the higher end of their lineup, but that right now is a rarity.
For Kershaw (not ZT), I am constantly sharpening the blades because of the soft "less expensive" steel and feeling the heavy weight of them due to their all steel construction. These factors have stopped me from looking at future models within these companies and to look elsewhere.

 

[Pilsner]

The Condor Kephart remains my go to outdoors blade (on the rare occasions I manage to make it outdoors these days). I have many more expensive, 'better' and far prettier fixed blades that will do the same thing, but the humble Kephart just does everything I need it to, does it competently, without much thought and I never worry about damaging or losing it. Just a great, inexpensive interpretation of a truly classic design.

I’ve just ordered a Mercator K55K and was thinking what a good, inexpensive woods pairing that would be with the Kephart. Both classic designs, carbon steel goodness. I cast spells on my carbon steel knives so they don’t crumble in the rain...

 

[The Aflac Duck]

Sense of value hits you hard when you loose a sebenza.

Man, you wanna talk about loss...

I lost a Diskin Fire for about 2 hours when I was moving around some bags of insulation. I reached for my pocket to cut something, and the knife was gone. I immediately went into a panic and started retracing my steps.

There were like 50 bags of insulation, and I was working alone so I know it was somewhere nearby. I started a full blown solo search party and eventually found it clipped onto a bag of insulation

I could sorta live with losing a Sebenza, but a Diskin Fire is rare...

 

[b00n]

I wouldn't say a knife destroyed my sense of value, but more that a few knives remind me that you don't have to pay a lot to enjoy a knife very much. Case in point the 2nd PM2 I got I like as much as the Wayfarer 247. Or maybe even a bit more because I can customize a bit on the PM2 while I won't dare to muck up the Wayfarer

 

[dirc]

I think/hope I found a perfect fixed blade, it's been ordered and I'm just waiting on delivery.
This will be my first 14c28n - but I've loved sandvik steel for a long time in the form of various mora's and opinel's, but all of mine are the old standard sandvik, without any nitrogen

What do you think of this $70 value destroyer? Does anyone already own this one? I'll report back after I've had it outdoors in heavy use... (this will also be my first ruike, but it's supposedly sub-zero cryo quenched, and hardness 58-60)

 

[basmca]

Not sure if it counts, but Ganzo.

Much better than Kershaw knives that are 3-4x the price.

 

[BusyBailey]

Thanks guys. Those are all some great looking knives that seem to be great values and I'll have to track down a few. I feel like it's going to be a big year for giving knives as gifts and bang for the buck is always great when giving gifts.
I can definitely see what you're are all saying. I've now got a ZT 0770CF which is great. But I'm looking at my JYD 2.2 with CPM-D2 wondering how much extra quality I got at double the sticker price. Granted I didn't pay sticker price and I think that is letting me look at them with clearer eyes. I've also got a CRKT Swindle that just seems to find it's way into my rotation no matter what I do.
This all started while I was trying to pick up a Spyderco Native so I guess I'll keep my eyes out for a good deal on that or a Delica. I need something to fit between the Dragonfly and the ZT with a bit more of a beater construction.

 

[Planterz]

Sorry, I hope I didn't offend any virgin ears.

Gimmie a friggen break.... 5 year olds hear and see worse on a daily basis now a days. Get real man. This is the internet.

How about I put it this way?

That kind of language can earn you infractions if a mod sees them, and that attitude, if directed towards a mod, can get you banned. If you prefer, next time I'll simply report your post and let the mods sort you out.

No? Then you're welcome.

 

[Gaston444]

The ultimate knife to do this for me was the United Cutlery Rambo II: I had two original no-dot Liles, and found the United copy far better made, with a better centered and more consistent edge (except for the soft plunge line in the last 1/4", fattening the edge at the heel, but that was fixed by REK). Overall edge thinness was a similar 0.030", but far more consistent overall, and the blade finish on the $100 knife was not some horrible machine tool mark/rough sandblasting landscape like on the $2000 Lile...

Another Lile I owned (SLy II) was even worse, with the ugly dual grinder "swells" matching every teeth all the way down into the clip...

To top it off, UC's 420J was not only far easier to sharpen, but it also did not chip unpredictably like Lile's D-2 did, on the contrary 420J held its edge (when chopping into wood) just about as well or better than anything else I ever tried (and way better than the Sly II).

The UC's handle construction is a poured resin plug, over a full width 6 mm thick 1" tang, pretty much like several high end custom HHs I owned, all with the same potential to develop guard rattle if the guard is hit and acts as a lever, causing a slight backward movement of the tube handle. Because, in all these cases, the inside of the tube is left smooth, the guard's leverage can cause enough tube movement to allow guard rattle. This then never goes further, owing the resin's apparent immense hold... I fixed a Colin Cox by really roughening the inner tube with a drill, then re-pouring the resin. In the UC "Rambo II" case, the guard is smaller, pointy ended and not lugged, so it will not easily find the leverage to cause itself to rattle. To their credit, real Liles are also made with identical poured resin plugs, but the resin appears to have a more mechanical "shoulder hold" on the tube handle's inner surface: One hard guard hit with the Sly II (on a protruding branch) produced only a bent guard with no rattle. Large guards do help save on fingers...

Gaston

 

[TAH]

The ultimate knife to do this for me was the United Cutlery Rambo II: I had two original no-dot Liles, and found the United copy far better made, with a better centered and more consistent edge (except for the soft plunge line in the last 1/4", fattening the edge at the heel, but that was fixed by REK). Overall edge thinness was a similar 0.030", but far more consistent overall, and the blade finish on the $100 knife was not some horrible machine tool mark/rough sandblasting landscape like on the $2000 Lile...

Another Lile I owned (SLy II) was even worse, with the ugly dual grinder "swells" matching every teeth all the way down into the clip...

To top it off, UC's 420J was not only far easier to sharpen, but it also did not chip unpredictably like Lile's D-2 did, on the contrary 420J held its edge (when chopping into wood) just about as well or better than anything else I ever tried (and way better than the Sly II).

The UC's handle construction is a poured resin plug, over a full width 6 mm thick 1" tang, pretty much like several high end custom HHs I owned, all with the same potential to develop guard rattle if the guard is hit and acts as a lever, causing a slight backward movement of the tube handle. Because, in all these cases, the inside of the tube is left smooth, the guard's leverage can cause enough tube movement to allow guard rattle. This then never goes further, owing the resin's apparent immense hold... I fixed a Colin Cox by really roughening the inner tube with a drill, then re-pouring the resin. In the UC "Rambo II" case, the guard is smaller, pointy ended and not lugged, so it will not easily find the leverage to cause itself to rattle. To their credit, real Liles are also made with identical poured resin plugs, but the resin appears to have a more mechanical "shoulder hold" on the tube handle's inner surface: One hard guard hit with the Sly II (on a protruding branch) produced only a bent guard with no rattle. Large guards do help save on fingers...

Gaston

Gaston, sincere question, do you ever use a knife for anything else besides chopping?

 

[Ajack60]

Gaston, sincere question, do you ever use a knife for anything else besides chopping?

Don't waste your time, using any knife improperly usually results in a damaged knife. Besides, the things some people claim are seldom backed up by proof.

 

[PirateSeulb]

Gaston, sincere question, do you ever use a knife for anything else besides chopping?

I almost spit out my tea as I laughed at this just because it is funny when people call him out.

 

[Durham68]

A used Spyderco tenacious for $20 has thrown a wrench in the works for me. I find it more useful than the few $100+ knives I have, and I’m not afraid to beat on it.

More to your point, I got my GM3 for $225 if I remember correctly. Not a curve breaker, but it’s making it hard to go above $300 for anything else.

 

[not2sharp]

I know a lot of people move steadily up in terms of quality and investment but has anyone ever had a knife completely ruin that progression? For instance, if you got a ZT for mid-tier Kershaw money would you ever be able to buy Kershaw again?

I have been playing with knives for nearly half a century, and have been up this road many times. After a while the novelty goes away and you learn to use whatever works best for the job.

n2s

 

[midnight flyer]

I have been playing with knives for nearly half a century, and have been up this road many times. After a while the novelty goes away and you learn to use whatever works best for the job.

n2s

I agree with this. The "best" knife for me is the one I have the most confidence in when using, and enjoy using the most. When I got a Spyderco Vallotton as a gift, I wasn't expecting what I got. The fit and finish are superb. The choice of materials was perfect, the complicated grind shape was perfectly symmetric, and the action was as smooth as butter. It has become my standard in folders, and few customs will match that standard. All that knife with a great steel, just $200 plus shipping. Really tough to not be critical of a $700 to $1000 that isn't as well executed.

With my work knives, I find myself carrying some of my old reliables over my ZTs and Benchmades. Since I have more than a few "work" knives that go to the site, I have a tendency to use them until they are unacceptably dull, then toss them in a box and sharpen them while watching TV or something else that doesn't require that much attention. As mentioned above, I am not afraid to use them for anything (Kershaw Tremor, RAT 1, Ontario Utilitac II, etc.) and they get the biggest share of work because I don't worry about them. With that in mind I have been getting rid (slowly!) of my older Benchmades, and other higher end knives. Not being a collector, I prize a knife for its utility, so it causes me to cast a pretty hard eye at knives that don't pull their weight.

Robert

 

[jackknife]

For me, it was Randall.

All my young knife nut life I had read about, heard about, and worshiped the Randall legend. I craved a Randall, and in my late 20's I had the disposable income to get one. Then I got another one. To me, they were Excalibur of legend. A RANDALL!

I put them to use of course. I didn't spend that kind of money for something that would sit in a safe place and be fondled. I was into camping, so the Randall 14 became my go-to camp knife. I was still hunting then, so the smaller Randall hunter was my deer/small game knife. They were 200 dollars each 1970 era prices.

Over the course of the next few years, I learned the lesson of hype. The Randall wasn't Excalibur after all. Cutting though wet deer that was muddy after falling down an embankment, or cutting some saplings for a tripod to hang the coffee pot over the fire, they got dull just like any other knife. Yes, the Randall's had that thick blade stock so you could pry open a tank hatch if need be, but as a real world cutting tool it wasn't that much better than any other good knife. Just much more expensive because it was a cult worship item to some.

The good thing about them was, they were easy to sell at a knife show. The fan boys got all glazed eye and handed over the money and I went down the road with a valuable lesson; A knife is just a knife. It's a cutting tool. Yes, some are better than others, but in the end, if what ever knife you have on you cuts what you need to cut, isn't that a good judge of quality? Does that piece of rope that you cut know it's been cut by a high dollar custom or a mundane Opinel?

In the end, I found out that the brand of a knife makes very little to no difference if it cuts what you need to cut. A 20 dollar knife is just as good in day to day use as a 200 dollar knife. The Randall's were a lesson to me that a higher price tag does not mean that much better an item.

 

[TAH]

For me, it was Randall...worshiped the Randall legend...they were Excalibur of legend. A RANDALL!

I agree, Randalls don't perform any better than other high quality knives, but the feelings that you mention above are the reasons why so many people are attracted to them. They are high quality knives that are also rich in history, tradition, and mystique, which equates to pride of ownership.

 

[Gaston444]

For me, it was Randall.

Over the course of the next few years, I learned the lesson of hype. The Randall wasn't Excalibur after all. Cutting though wet deer that was muddy after falling down an embankment, or cutting some saplings for a tripod to hang the coffee pot over the fire, they got dull just like any other knife. Yes, the Randall's had that thick blade stock so you could pry open a tank hatch if need be, but as a real world cutting tool it wasn't that much better than any other good knife. Just much more expensive because it was a cult worship item to some.

In the end, I found out that the brand of a knife makes very little to no difference if it cuts what you need to cut. A 20 dollar knife is just as good in day to day use as a 200 dollar knife. The Randall's were a lesson to me that a higher price tag does not mean that much better an item.

For basic chopping tasks, you are probably right that they are overpriced. Combining that with slicing ability, I don't fully agree.

How many brands do you know have both thick 0.25" tangs, going into 0.22" blade stock, and are over ten times thinner at 0.020" behind the edge? How many combine this without the poorly balanced fad of heavy full profile tangs? Not many that I know of.

Quality finished hand-fitting micarta? Fewer still. Forged stainless?: None.

Personally I don't like their "swirly" blade surface finish and the imprecision of their 18 style blades. I also found at least one that seemed to have so-so edge holding compared to my 3 others: Maybe they made it softer because it was a dagger...

Their lack of full profile tangs, plus their thin edges, stainless steel and hollow grinds make them quite different from virtually every other fixed blade that is offered today, save a handful of SOGs and a few Cold Steels (maybe with a few other synthetic handle Chinese entry level stuff). Nothing made today compares with their daggers in edge geometry (only older Gerbers ever did). Even the Blackjack clones are fundamentally different with their -inferior to my mind- convex geometries. I am not a super fan, but you have to concede there is not much out there that is even remotely similar. Mostly because all of it was conceived in a time when they did not know hollow grinds, thin edges and stick tangs were a bad thing...

Gaston

 

[Mr.SATism]

J.E. Made slipjoint (with G10 handle covers).

For $130 U.S., it's extremely hard to beat (assuming you can even get your hands on one). Yes it's made in China and not the U.S., but so are a lot of Spydercos. It's super-well made, pretty easy to sharpen and holds a really nice edge while looking really good, too.

View attachment 882519

Modern traditionals have really changed the way I see value in knives, because it brought modern materials to traditional design. Price wise they are VERY fairly priced (Thanks Collectorknives for the Roundhead), and they give picky super steel snobs (like me) an entry to the beauties of slipjoints