has anyone used these before, I get asked all the time about serrations.

J-siah

J-siah

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Jan 28, 2008
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http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/product_info.php?products_id=2607

it looks like it does a good job but Im curious if anyone has any first hand experience. I seached it and I found something that looked similar from a thread back in 2006 where the knifemaker had it in a mill, but nothing recent. It is very expensive and I was wondering if anyone has anyone has used this particular one before. my thought would be to set it up with a misting unit and mount it in a bench grinder with a milling vise on the bench to feed into it. I get asked about doing serations all the time, so this might be a good investment if will last for the long haul.

-Josiah
 
I have a few knives with serrations and some have different patters of serrations.

I use the syperdco sharpener for serrations and it does a real good job.
 
I have knives with serrations and much prefer knives without....just my two cents!!
 
wjswiger said:
I have knives with serrations and much prefer knives without....just my two cents!!
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I much prefer them without as well, but a lot of guys who are not knife nuts like most of us here are think that serrations are the only way to have a knife, no matter what you tell them. so having this as an option ,Im hoping, would open up my customer base.

Zanuha said:
AVigil, he's talking about making serrations, not sharpening them...
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thanks ;)
 
I would have to be able to grind an awful lot of blades with it for it to be worth $325. Then again, I'm biased because I really hate serrations. Josiah's right though, an awful lot of people simply adore them.
 
My only concern with that wheel would be it wearing and then making uneven serrations..Without a proper way to dress it you would end up with a very expensive rock..
 
I too would worry about wear... and that thing is outrageously priced for what it is IMO....

Neat tool though...
 
It's diamonds bonded to a substrate, probably metal. so it won't wear out of shape, but the diamonds will wear. How fast it will wear...? Will you be able to cut enough serrations with it to pay for it and your labor and make a profit? Guess that depends on how much extra your customers will pay for a serrated knife. Personally I don't care for serrations except on steak knives...

Years ago I read that diamond wheels running at high speed wore out quickly when grinding steel because the steel would rob carbon from the diamonds when both were hot. This might be absolute bunk for all I know, I only use diamond abrasives for hand sharpening.
 
Yes, that is total bunk, Mahoney.
Carbon does not "rub off" or transfer from the diamonds and into the steel.

These wheels are made by forming a shaped substrate of steel, and sintering diamond grit onto the surface ( usually sintered with nickel). The layer can be very thin or fairly thick....and you usually get what you pay for.
As the wheel abrades the work, some of the diamond crystals get pulled out of the sintered base, and the layer wears down.
I have used shaped diamond wheels for things in the past, and properly used, they will last fairly well. If the pressure is too high, or lubrication isn't used, they don't last long at all.

A wheel like the one shown, run on a rigid arbor, and under a water flood, should do thousands of serrations before the sintered diamond layer gets worn down too much. You would need to build a jig to hold the blade and swing it into the wheel. If the process is smooth and firm, the serration will be done in seconds. The same jig can re-sharpen the serrations later with ease (as long as the same wheel is used).

If you only got 325 blades from the wheel ( which would be a poor life), that would be $1 per blade cost ( plus the grinding setup). If you add $5 per blade for serrations, you make a 400% profit......not bad.....assuming you will sell 325 serrated blades in the next couple years.
 
i looked into them my only thought was if i had an odd shapped blade profile

i woudl sure look into it tho if i could get one witha more toothy patteren liek many of my spydercos
 
bladsmth said:
Yes, that is total bunk, Mahoney.
Carbon does not "rub off" or transfer from the diamonds and into the steel.

These wheels are made by forming a shaped substrate of steel, and sintering diamond grit onto the surface ( usually sintered with nickel). The layer can be very thin or fairly thick....and you usually get what you pay for.
As the wheel abrades the work, some of the diamond crystals get pulled out of the sintered base, and the layer wears down.
I have used shaped diamond wheels for things in the past, and properly used, they will last fairly well. If the pressure is too high, or lubrication isn't used, they don't last long at all.

A wheel like the one shown, run on a rigid arbor, and under a water flood, should do thousands of serrations before the sintered diamond layer gets worn down too much. You would need to build a jig to hold the blade and swing it into the wheel. If the process is smooth and firm, the serration will be done in seconds. The same jig can re-sharpen the serrations later with ease (as long as the same wheel is used).

If you only got 325 blades from the wheel ( which would be a poor life), that would be $1 per blade cost ( plus the grinding setup). If you add $5 per blade for serrations, you make a 400% profit......not bad.....assuming you will sell 325 serrated blades in the next couple years.
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thanks for the info stacy, It didnt even cross my mind that is would last that long. i would use a milling vise as a fixture and put a coolmist unit on it. do you think it would be ok to run it at 3450rpms or should I hook it up too a 1725 rpm? if it will last that long I think I will puck one up the next time I get paid.

butcher_block said:
i looked into them my only thought was if i had an odd shapped blade profile

i woudl sure look into it tho if i could get one witha more toothy patteren liek many of my spydercos
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yeah it would only get used on the straight portion of hunting blades.
 
The key here is if the diamond is electroplated or sintered. Plated diamonds will not last too long, especially with improper use. Sintered diamond should be quite durable. From the price this wheel had better be sintered!
 
Use your dremel and a carbide burr.I make serrations that i think look as good for next to nothing and its fast.Practice on an old blade and youll be surprised what you can do.They will really rip too.I would throw up some pics,but i dumped a cup of ice water in my keyboard(laptop) the other day.I still have hope but its fading.Heres one buried deep in photobucket
IMG_3434.jpg
.
 
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I have done alot of dremel work using diamond burrs in my former career, One thing I found is the substrate holding the diamonds will break down with heat.
If i cooled the burrs often with water my burrs lasted much much much longer than without.
I am going to bet spinning that at 1800 would be better than 3600 rpm for that size, just a guess though.
And coolant of any type would be recommended if possible.
CW
 
thanks a lot for the feed back every one.

thanks chris, I was thinking the same thing. 3450 is just to fast for a wheel that small. I would definitely put a coolmist on it.

-Josiah
 
J-siah said:
........3450 is just to fast for a wheel that small. I would definitely put a coolmist on it.
-Josiah
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The smaller the wheel, the faster it needs to turn. Hitting the recomended SFPM is what you want.
A six injch wheel at 3450RPM has the same SFPM as a 12" wheel at 1725RPM.
 
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