Hatchet in 3V: Where can I get one?

[Altaraz]

I've been looking into hatchets lately... Gransfors Bruks seems to have quite a following. Thing is though I'm not sure if their hatchets can adequately handle the types of hard wood that we have up here in Canada. Apparently the steel they use is something resembling L-6.

Does anyone know where I can get a nice hatchet with a head of CPM-3V? Maybe there are custom makers that would do it???? The closest thing I found was this: http://www.gpknives.com/striderbsbreachershatchetblackg10blackblade.html a breacher's hatchet, which isn't really what I'm looking for. Besides that, I find 500$ to be just a LIIIITTLE bit steep.

I'm thinking that 3V's exceptional toughness and good wear resistance would be *Awe-SOME*

 

[Mitchell Knives]

A custom maker could certainly make you one, but it most likely would not be in your price range.

 

[Altaraz]

In your opinion, what type of price range would I be looking at? In actuality, I can spend that much if need be (if I save up for a little bit) I was just thinking it should be a bit less if, say, only the head and maybe a throat collar were in 3V, rather than the entire hatchet. Am I wrong to think that way? It just seemed to me that hatchets in general were less expensive than, say, high quality large knives. Then again, maybe I'm totally off the mark?

 

[Mitchell Knives]

If the factory version above is $475, you can expect a true custom version to be quite a bit more.

If only the head were 3V (AL handle, etc), a custom would probably be in the $400 - $500 range.

The problem is that 3V is very expensive, and the maker would need to purchase a large piece to make a hawk.

 

[Wood Splitter]

What Provence are you in? I live in BC, and I have found my Gransfors perfect for the wood we have here. I actually know what steel they are made from, I just can't tell you what it is. I can tell you though, it is a very though steel that is perfect for an axe. Unless your chopping through concrete, I think a GB would be perfect for you.

 

[Wood Splitter]

By the way, if your looking at processing a lot of wood, look into a bigger axe. Scandinavian Forest Axe, American Felling axe etc. But if your more into bushcraft, (cutting shelter poles, heavy carving, light limbing, splitting etc) your might be better off with a hatchet, folding saw (I love my Silky Pocket boy 170), and a medium sized belt knife. I also carry a neck knife, but that's just personal choice.

 

[Altaraz]

I'm in Ontario. I guess then wherever I read that GBs were no good for up North was a load of bunk. I don't know because I've never owned a GB. I'm more into bushcraft, carving, limbing and splitting like you mentioned.

I've been seriously considering the Wildlife Hatchet and the Outdoor Axe. Actually, if the Outdoor Axe had a face as big as the WH it would be perfect. Then again, who says 2 1/2 inches of face is not good enough?

Thank you for the valuable info! I'm curious - why is it you can't tell me what steel they use? Is it something special, like Busse's INFI?

 

[scouter27]

What makes you think an axe should be any less than a knife? Because you can pop in to Walmart and buy an axe for $20? You can do the same with a knife. Actually, both could be quite good, if you do it right. Fiskars and Buck, FWIW, both sold through Walmart have offerings in that range. If you want to compare, look at a factory produced high quality axe, like the Gransfors Bruks or Council's Velvicut axes and compare them to a high quality production knife line, like ESEE or Bark River. If you see any difference at all, it's because there is finer detail necessary in making a knife, hence, more time involved. Note that the Gransfors Mini Hatchet is one of the most expensive, and only available with one maker's stamp, "LM". Again, more skill/detail involved in making it, so the price is increased. I'm not saying that making an axe is less difficult than making a knife, only that the pieces are typically larger.


As for the price, any 2 pound hunk of CMP 3V is going to be fairly expensive, let alone one that has been machined into a specific pattern. Even more so one that is attached to a highly desirable maker. I realize people around the internet whine about the cost of Strider knives, but the fact remains that they sell at the asking price all day long, and the customs resell for more than the original price. However, I doubt you'll find anyone making a 3V axe for significantly less unless they manage to score some large stock for an incredible price.

If you really want to get an amazing steel, look into S7. I don't follow all the makers on this forum, but I've seen that Daniel Fairly is doing some swords in this steel.

I'm in Ontario. I guess then wherever I read that GBs were no good for up North was a load of bunk.

It's especially funny when you consider the latitude of Gransfors Bruks' location is 5 degrees (about 500 km) north of the northern most point of Ontario province

 

[Wood Splitter]

I'm in Ontario. I guess then wherever I read that GBs were no good for up North was a load of bunk. I don't know because I've never owned a GB. I'm more into bushcraft, carving, limbing and splitting like you mentioned.

I've been seriously considering the Wildlife Hatchet and the Outdoor Axe. Actually, if the Outdoor Axe had a face as big as the WH it would be perfect. Then again, who says 2 1/2 inches of face is not good enough?

Thank you for the valuable info! I'm curious - why is it you can't tell me what steel they use? Is it something special, like Busse's INFI?

Actually GB axes were made for the North woods. I would personally go for the Wildlife hatchet if I were you. If you don't plan on cutting any big trees, and are mainly into bushcraft, the Wildlife would be about perfect.

I learned what steel they use from a blacksmith I know who went and worked along side them, and learned from them for a few months a long time ago. It is a very good high carbon steel very well suited for axes and hatchets. But I'm pretty sure if I tell you, the word would get around, and if GB wanted to say what steel they use, they would say it themselves. Sorry

 

[Altaraz]

You make an excellent point. Maybe I was thinking axes would be cheaper because of the affordability of GB axes, which are apparently of high quality, like you said. S7... that rings a bell. If I'm not mistaken, it is "the benchmark" for shock resistant tool steels. I never thought of that, but it would be fantastic for an axe/hatchet because of that very characteristic wouldn't it?

Do you have any idea what the price range for that would be as compared to 3V?

 

[Altaraz]

Hey I totally understand! That's VERY cool that you learned that from blacksmiths! Wildlife Hatchet you say... hmmm, you're probably right! Who knows, maybe I'll get both!

 

[scouter27]

...get both!

That's the be-all, end-all internet answer to the question "which one?"

 

[TheTip]

Why there are no axes in CPM-3V:

If we will see an axe or hatchet made of CPM-3V (or any other high-carbide tool steel), it will probably be a version cut out of a flat band of steel along with its handle, and not a traditionally forged axe head with an eye for inserting a wooden handle. Thus, you can only hope for a knife shaped as a hatchet . This is due to the non-forging nature of high-alloy steels.

Why CPM-3V is not forgeable:

Unlike simple carbon steels (like 1084 or 1045) that are very forgiving under the hammer, CPM-3V is a high-alloy tool steel that requires precise temperature control and a lot of physical effort.

Here is the breakdown of why forging an axe head out of it is a serious undertaking:

1. The Forging Window​

CPM-3V has a very narrow temperature range where it is actually "plastic" enough to move.

• Start forging: Around 2100°F (1150°C).
• Stop forging: Once it hits 1700°F (925°C).
• The Risk: If you keep hitting it below 1700°F, you aren't just wasting your breath—you’re likely to cause internal stress fractures or "checks" that will make the axe head fail later.

2. Red Hardness (The "Brick" Factor)​

Because it’s designed to stay tough and hard even at high temperatures, it resists being moved by a hammer. Even at a bright orange heat, it feels significantly stiffer than carbon steel. If you are forging an axe head by hand, be prepared for a massive workout. Even with a power hammer or a hydraulic press for 3V, issues will still occur.

3. Air Hardening Hazards​

CPM-3V is an air-hardening steel. This means as it cools in the ambient air, it starts to harden.

• You cannot just toss it on the floor to cool like a piece of mild steel.
• It needs a very slow, controlled cool-down (usually in a vermiculite bucket or a programmed kiln) to prevent it from cracking due to thermal shock.

​

So, is it a good choice for an axe?​

Performance-wise: Absolutely. CPM-3V is legendary for its impact toughness. It’s essentially the "gold standard" for hard-use outdoor tools because it resists chipping better than almost anything else. An axe head made of 3V will hold an edge beautifully and survive abuse that would shatter most other steels.

Manufacturing-wise: It's a headache.Because of the difficulty in forging, many makers prefer Stock Removal (grinding the shape out of a flat bar) rather than forging. For an axe, this is wasteful and expensive. This is why all 3V axes you might find are either CNC-machined, or forged by very high-end custom smiths with specialized heat-treat ovens (which would multiply the cost by tens, for a steel that is already extremely expensive and will never mass-produce).

Crucial Note: You cannot heat-treat CPM-3V with a torch and a bucket of oil (or quench in water like Gransfors Bruks does with their current carbon steel). It requires a precise, high-temperature soak in a vacuum or foil wrap to prevent decarburization, followed by deep cryogenic treatment and specific tempering cycles to reach its maximum potential.

Conclusion:

Considering that the main usage for an axe is about impacts, why would an axe manufacturer use 3V (with all the above headache and a 1000 times higher production costs), when they can simply choose a steel like L6, 5160, or S7, which are easily forgeable, significantly cheaper, and more shock resistant than 3V?

PS: This is an old thread and I'm sorry for not seeing it few years back. But the question is still relevant, that's why I responded now rather than not at all.

 

[jbmonkey]

Why there are no axes in CPM-3V:

If we will see an axe or hatchet made of CPM-3V (or any other high-carbide tool steel), it will probably be a version cut out of a flat band of steel along with its handle, and not a traditionally forged axe head with an eye for inserting a wooden handle. Thus, you can only hope for a knife shaped as a hatchet . This is due to the non-forging nature of high-alloy steels.

Why CPM-3V is not forgeable:

Unlike simple carbon steels (like 1084 or 1045) that are very forgiving under the hammer, CPM-3V is a high-alloy tool steel that requires precise temperature control and a lot of physical effort.

Here is the breakdown of why forging an axe head out of it is a serious undertaking:

1. The Forging Window​

CPM-3V has a very narrow temperature range where it is actually "plastic" enough to move.

• Start forging: Around 2100°F (1150°C).
• Stop forging: Once it hits 1700°F (925°C).
• The Risk: If you keep hitting it below 1700°F, you aren't just wasting your breath—you’re likely to cause internal stress fractures or "checks" that will make the axe head fail later.

2. Red Hardness (The "Brick" Factor)​

Because it’s designed to stay tough and hard even at high temperatures, it resists being moved by a hammer. Even at a bright orange heat, it feels significantly stiffer than carbon steel. If you are forging an axe head by hand, be prepared for a massive workout. Even with a power hammer or a hydraulic press for 3V, issues will still occur.

3. Air Hardening Hazards​

CPM-3V is an air-hardening steel. This means as it cools in the ambient air, it starts to harden.

• You cannot just toss it on the floor to cool like a piece of mild steel.
• It needs a very slow, controlled cool-down (usually in a vermiculite bucket or a programmed kiln) to prevent it from cracking due to thermal shock.

​

So, is it a good choice for an axe?​

Performance-wise: Absolutely. CPM-3V is legendary for its impact toughness. It’s essentially the "gold standard" for hard-use outdoor tools because it resists chipping better than almost anything else. An axe head made of 3V will hold an edge beautifully and survive abuse that would shatter most other steels.

Manufacturing-wise: It's a headache.Because of the difficulty in forging, many makers prefer Stock Removal (grinding the shape out of a flat bar) rather than forging. For an axe, this is wasteful and expensive. This is why all 3V axes you might find are either CNC-machined, or forged by very high-end custom smiths with specialized heat-treat ovens (which would multiply the cost by tens, for a steel that is already extremely expensive and will never mass-produce).

Crucial Note: You cannot heat-treat CPM-3V with a torch and a bucket of oil (or quench in water like Gransfors Bruks does with their current carbon steel). It requires a precise, high-temperature soak in a vacuum or foil wrap to prevent decarburization, followed by deep cryogenic treatment and specific tempering cycles to reach its maximum potential.

Conclusion:

Considering that the main usage for an axe is about impacts, why would an axe manufacturer use 3V (with all the above headache and a 1000 times higher production costs), when they can simply choose a steel like L6, 5160, or S7, which are easily forgeable, significantly cheaper, and more shock resistant than 3V?

PS: This is an old thread and I'm sorry for not seeing it few years back. But the question is still relevant, that's why I responded now rather than not at all.

thanks ai......

 

[DocJD]

thanks ai......

You are welcome ...puny simian lifeforms !

 

[ferider]

Google “Tracker Hatchet” from Guinea Forge. Only $395.

 

[John Phillips]

RMJ made some various models in 3V.

 

[SharpBits]

Both are sort of proving the point made by AI above. Way too expensive and neither are really axes. One is a less useful hatchet and the other is a tomahawk. Both could made with more appropriate steels for less money and with arguably better performance in axe activities.

 

[Steven65]

Why there are no axes in CPM-3V:

If we will see an axe or hatchet made of CPM-3V (or any other high-carbide tool steel), it will probably be a version cut out of a flat band of steel along with its handle, and not a traditionally forged axe head with an eye for inserting a wooden handle. Thus, you can only hope for a knife shaped as a hatchet . This is due to the non-forging nature of high-alloy steels.

Why CPM-3V is not forgeable:

Unlike simple carbon steels (like 1084 or 1045) that are very forgiving under the hammer, CPM-3V is a high-alloy tool steel that requires precise temperature control and a lot of physical effort.

Here is the breakdown of why forging an axe head out of it is a serious undertaking:

1. The Forging Window​

CPM-3V has a very narrow temperature range where it is actually "plastic" enough to move.

• Start forging: Around 2100°F (1150°C).
• Stop forging: Once it hits 1700°F (925°C).
• The Risk: If you keep hitting it below 1700°F, you aren't just wasting your breath—you’re likely to cause internal stress fractures or "checks" that will make the axe head fail later.

2. Red Hardness (The "Brick" Factor)​

Because it’s designed to stay tough and hard even at high temperatures, it resists being moved by a hammer. Even at a bright orange heat, it feels significantly stiffer than carbon steel. If you are forging an axe head by hand, be prepared for a massive workout. Even with a power hammer or a hydraulic press for 3V, issues will still occur.

3. Air Hardening Hazards​

CPM-3V is an air-hardening steel. This means as it cools in the ambient air, it starts to harden.

• You cannot just toss it on the floor to cool like a piece of mild steel.
• It needs a very slow, controlled cool-down (usually in a vermiculite bucket or a programmed kiln) to prevent it from cracking due to thermal shock.

​

So, is it a good choice for an axe?​

Performance-wise: Absolutely. CPM-3V is legendary for its impact toughness. It’s essentially the "gold standard" for hard-use outdoor tools because it resists chipping better than almost anything else. An axe head made of 3V will hold an edge beautifully and survive abuse that would shatter most other steels.

Manufacturing-wise: It's a headache.Because of the difficulty in forging, many makers prefer Stock Removal (grinding the shape out of a flat bar) rather than forging. For an axe, this is wasteful and expensive. This is why all 3V axes you might find are either CNC-machined, or forged by very high-end custom smiths with specialized heat-treat ovens (which would multiply the cost by tens, for a steel that is already extremely expensive and will never mass-produce).

Crucial Note: You cannot heat-treat CPM-3V with a torch and a bucket of oil (or quench in water like Gransfors Bruks does with their current carbon steel). It requires a precise, high-temperature soak in a vacuum or foil wrap to prevent decarburization, followed by deep cryogenic treatment and specific tempering cycles to reach its maximum potential.

Conclusion:

Considering that the main usage for an axe is about impacts, why would an axe manufacturer use 3V (with all the above headache and a 1000 times higher production costs), when they can simply choose a steel like L6, 5160, or S7, which are easily forgeable, significantly cheaper, and more shock resistant than 3V?

PS: This is an old thread and I'm sorry for not seeing it few years back. But the question is still relevant, that's why I responded now rather than not at all.

Good reply..........after 14 years.......

 

[ferider]

Both are sort of proving the point made my AI above. Way too expensive and neither are really axes. One is a less useful hatchet and the other is a tomahawk. Both could made with more appropriate steels for less money and with arguably better performance in axe activities.

Not saying you are wrong - but the OP was looking for a hatchet, not an axe (long time ago).