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Hate for benchmade or spyderco

I used to love spyderco, now i dislike them. Why. Well, first it was the quality of their liner locks. My Jot, Starmate, Lum Chinese all had liner lock problems and failures. Then it was the service of their warranty department. Then it was the change in their warranty and repair policy which interestingly made some of the poor previous service no longer free if I had problems. Then their shiftless explanation and partial denial of the change left a bad taste. When they started justifying play in lockbacks (spyderco used to have rock solid lock backs) I just got sad. Then the spyderco the "knives are tools" company started promoting knives as weapons with the MBC line including classes in deanimation...oh sorry self defense. Then there is the big handle/small blade designs that I find unappealing and just poor design, since other companies make good small handles. The disappointment this year is the foolish kris blade and the destruction of the endura and delica with thick tips and the addition of extra needless weight with steel liners.

However with Benchmade...good service, good knives, good liner locks and with the blackwood skirmish, even opening holes.
 
I like both companies. I personally prefer the Spyderco designs. But if Benchmade ever came out with a design that I really liked, I wouldn't hesitate to get one.
 
This is my first post here in a LONG time. Good to be back.


I have to admit I was a die-hard BM believer/flag waver. I have many BM models and still love their products, but I am drawn to Spyderco.

I have since added many more spyderco models and REALLY dig the way Sal participates on this and the main SPyderco forum. How many companies do that? It really gives you that small, custom, intimate feel. This knife was made for me. (I cannot afford a true custom knife so bear with me)

Benchmade appears like any big company where knife designs are published. I don't feel that same connection with the company.

Its about more than knives for me. I love both products, but its the intangibles that make an impression.
 
Hate is a strong word. There are a number of things I'd like to see done differently at both Benchmade and Spyderco, but they don't consult with me on how to run their businesses. :) If they don't have what I need or want, I'll find it elsewhere or have someone make it for me if necessary.

BTW the only knife manufacturer I have pretty much unconditional respect for is Busse - Swamp Rat. I like their no compromise, build a great product, customer comes first attitude.
 
SOME Spydies are ugly. ALL are functional and have its own identity. Plus, I appreciate Sal's posting here, at BF, communicating people.
Benchmade's knives en masse lack individuality, but Axis lock is great.
Let's put it this way: there are many Spydies I like to own (Manix, Millie, Cricket etc, etc), and there's two WTB Benchmades (TSEK and BM42)
 
I think they are both respectable companies and they both produce very nice knives.
I don't have one single Benchmade or Spyderco, but if I would have to chose a folder, my pick would be a Benchmade for sure. However I like Spyderco's kitchen knives and sharpening systems. This is just personal preference though. I have a great respect towards Mr. Sal Glesser, because I consider him an honest and professional person. Sooner or later his company will get my business.

Grover_Cephas,

You will find Benchmade fans who'll tell you that Spydercos are ugly, that they all look alike (never understood that one, myself), that their full-flat-grinds are too fragile for everyday tasks like prying open vault doors and stabbing fuel drums, and that the unlined FRN handles will shatter if you look at 'em wrong.
Click to expand...

What do you know, that's me and I would't even consider myself a Benchmade fan. :foot:
 
Spyderco makes great products, and I like the way their company runs; they take the user's input and concerns all the way to the finished product.
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Exactly! Case in point: the new SWICK. I once returned a close-out little ball-bearing $25 knife from their clearance site and they not only accepted it but they even credited my shipping! How many knifemakers do that?
Except for my Delica 4, all my Spydercos have always arrived supersharp.
Benchmades are good too, it's mostly a matter of preference-you can find something to love (or hate) on any knife. I like Kershaws a lot, but I wished they used a better steel on most of them rather than just a select few.

If you find too much to 'hate', that's why you go with a custom. You design it. If custom is too expensive, find some affordable guys like Yurco or Bradburn or CHAX. I'm sure there are more. Picked up a great Yurco wharnie very affordable. Bradburn sells knives for $130 or so. Many CHAX knives are less. We're knife people.... we're all about LOVE :D
 
Not clearance, my mistake. But they do have a "Discontinued" area where their knives are often discounted, sometimes heavily. They had the Perrin at one time for $49. Everybody else had it for $70 plus.
 
I started into modern folders with an Endura (G-2, FRN clip) many years ago. I bought another half dozen Spydies, none of which I still have. I bought a Benchmade Panther, same steel, after reading a (Fighting Knives?) article about "Best $50 folders". Still got it.

In the dozen years after that I bought about thirty Benchmades, about half of which I still own. I tend to swap and sell off to support my habit. :) But a lot of those were BMs that friends literally bought out of my pocket, that I then replaced.

In the last couple years, I've picked up four Spydies, still got em all. In that same span I picked up about eight BMs, and still have six of them.

I tend to prefer Benchmade over Spyderco, although not nearly as strongly as I did five or ten years ago. The best simple way I can put it is like this: every year I look at the new product line from both companies. Each of them almost always have some knives that really make me think hard about getting them. But Benchmade will usually have quite a few more - percentage or raw number - that really trip my trigger than Spyderco does. I often want half or more of the new BMs, I tend to be drawn to a quarter or less of new Spydies.

I'm not talking so much about quality as just taste - knives I want; more importantly (especially to Sal and Les!), knives I'm willing to spend money on.

Hate Spyderco? Hell, no. Dislike? Not even close. Their customer service (especially their new CS) is not, in my direct experience, up to Benchmade's, but damn few production makers are. (Buck, and Kershaw, I'll also vouch for.) And they make less knives that I want. But they're a good company with excellent knives, and they have quite a few designs I absolutely love.

Love Benchmade? Yeah, I do. In what is probably an irrational, lust-blinded glow, I still love BM as much now as I did when I bought Sarah and I our one-month anniversary Panthers. :) They make knives I love, and they have gone out of their way to treat me like gold when I had a problem.
 
I like them both a lot. I like Spyderco a bit more because I have more experience with them, but in a couple months most of my knives will be BMs because I'm experimenting with balis and have Morphos and 42s on order.
 
Hi Brownshoe,

Thanx much for your honest thoughts on Spyderco. I thought there might be something I'd done in the past to piss you off as most of your posts regarding Spyderco have been somewhat negative.


brownshoe said:
I used to love spyderco, now i dislike them. Why. Well, first it was the quality of their liner locks. My Jot, Starmate, Lum Chinese all had liner lock problems and failures. Then it was the service of their warranty department. Then it was the change in their warranty and repair policy which interestingly made some of the poor previous service no longer free if I had problems. Then their shiftless explanation and partial denial of the change left a bad taste. When they started justifying play in lockbacks (spyderco used to have rock solid lock backs) I just got sad. Then the spyderco the "knives are tools" company started promoting knives as weapons with the MBC line including classes in deanimation...oh sorry self defense. Then there is the big handle/small blade designs that I find unappealing and just poor design, since other companies make good small handles. The disappointment this year is the foolish kris blade and the destruction of the endura and delica with thick tips and the addition of extra needless weight with steel liners.

However with Benchmade...good service, good knives, good liner locks and with the blackwood skirmish, even opening holes.
Click to expand...

On the quality of early linerlocks and poor customer service, I can only apologise. Our Seki makers have had a difficult time with Walker linerlocks.

I think you will find our customer service has been much improved. While I will always accept the responsibility for my staff (the buck stops here), there are times when crew might not follow our philosophies and changes become necessary. The goal at Spyderco is to please the customer, you.

On the lock-backs, actually our early lock-backs always had some play. Our recent lock-backs are quite tight. Probably some of the best in the industry

MBC designs, large handles and small blades, the new Endura/Delica4 designs are all the result of customer requests. We try to pay attention to their desires. Heck, we're currently making special blades for the Australian whale rescue.

The Kris is an Ed Schempp design following the parameters of our "ethnic" series which is our attempt to take old and foreign concepts and bring modern folders to the market that retain the spirit of the original design. While it is possible that you do not personally like them, which I can accept, your dislike does not necessarily make them poor designs.

The question now is, "what can we do to win you back?".

We certainly can't be "all bad" and there must be something that we can do to get an opportunity to show you that we are in fact a responsible passionate company that is dedicated to serving our customers, and we would like for you to be one of those.

sal
 
I like them both, I tend to use more Spydies than BMs and I do really like that Sal hangs out around the forums listening to us knife knuts.

However I'm VERY happy with my two Benchmades (Ares and Griptilian). The Grip in 154CM gives my Endura 4 quite a fight for my pocket.
 
I hate Spyderco. They always come out with new knives that require me to spend more money. ;)
 
fudo said:
I think that the reason you don't see people bashing Spyderco much is that Spyderco is a good corporate citizens who provide a quality product at reasonable prices. Also Sal Glesser participates in this forum, even though Spyderco has its own forum. Mr. Glesser takes the time to talk and listen to ELU's.Spyderco also addresses warranty issues with class and professionality. All companies should conduct themselves in this manner.:thumbup:
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fudo: You said it very, very well!! Spyderco is an awesome and amazing company!! Spyderco IS an example to ALL companies!!
 
I don't like either one of them!!!! The knives and the company have let me down WAY TO MANY TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Mr. Glasser,

I believe the decisions spyderco has made are due to market pressures and there is not much chance of change. But since you asked, here are some suggestions:

1. Start by honoring the original warranties for knives bought under that warranty. For example, when a Jot comes in with the screws pulled out of the handle. Replace it with a new knife because it is a design flaw. When an endura comes in with the intergral clip broken off, replace it for free. When a knife needs reprofiling and it was bought under the old warranty, fix it. Be honest about the true changes in the warranty…spyderco now longer repairs and replaces for design flaws. Say it directly not by omission.

2. Stop claiming lock back slippage is normal. For example, Queen is having the same problem with their Mtn man lockback. They don’t claim its normal. They fix or replace. As an aside, why doesn't spyderco stock parts to fix your knives? I've been told that a japanese made spyderco, still in production, could not be fixed because there are no parts in america. When I told your customer service rep that in my business we use FedEx and get parts in three days from Japan, he laughed and said not at spyderco. In another instance, the "repair" department wouldn't tap new screws for a handle, other firms do this.

3. I was aghast when you said the ZDP wonder steel had not been fully tested before use in a knife. Spyderco used to be known for full testing. However, with some of the recent failures in the early versions of knives, maybe spyerco needs to go back to the old practices. It seems spyderco is falling into the steel of the year trap and not doing sufficient testing…remember the problems with CPM440V?

4. Don’t bow to market pressure when it’s wrong. I know two people other than me who won’t recommend delicas now that they are heavier and don’t have fine points. You proved to me that there isn’t a need for steel liners with FRN.

5. The MBC stuff is disgusting. Stop it. Don’t openly market the civilian. Get rid of spyderco weapons line (that’s why I can’t stand the Kris.)

6. Spyderco likes to pride itself on being brutally honest. Well then carry it through. Scagel had opening holes on his knives…spyderco made them round. The cobra hood is just a modified Terzuola thumb disk. Spyderco’s first ethnic knife was the Jot not the Shabaria. The Kris is not a Filipino design, it’s found elsewhere also, its true origins are not known. Persians I know laugh at spyderco’s Persian knife. The upswept blade is common to many cultures in the middle east. You know the difference between Persians and Arabs, right? Be honest about the true changes in the warranty…spyderco now longer repair and replace for design flaws. If it’s the seki people that have trouble with liner locks, why does my American made starmate have the worst liner of the bunch. Spyderco repaired it once…sent it back in two days…repaired it again…went bad in 3 weeks…fixed it myself and it’s been fine for years.

7. What is more useless than a balisong w/o a latch? You’re SOL when it’s dropped. It can’t be thrown. When used as a tool it’s a pain to pick up once set down. Did spyderco bow to some lawyer?

8. Do some community service other than a high price WTC knife. Spyercos one-armed man knife (Maddox?) was a great design. Very popular with my two friends with one arm. Why is it gone? From what I could tell it was poor marketing. None of the occupational therapists my friends go to new about the knife or where to get it. Does spyderco spend 10% on community service? Put some of it into this blade, not knife fighting seminars.

9. What has happened to the kitchen knives? They are not in the catalog. Spyderco’s cut back on the line over the years, is it gone now? Not martial enough for you? I think its poor marketing. Spyderco has the best serrated knives in the business. I give them as wedding presents and at least half the time I’m told it’s the sharpest knife in the drawer all the time. Still sharpen them for free?

After reading the above, I guess the true problem I have is I was attracted to spyderco because of the excellent kitchen knives. Then I investigated your firm and became enamored with its declared philosophy of honesty, knives as tools not weapons, designing for function, not fashion, and continuing improvement. My experience has taught me otherwise, thus I am disappointed. When a company claims to work to a higher standard than its competitors, but doesn’t live up to it, denies when it’s missing the mark, and then lowers their standard, this leads to disappointment.
 
I've been away from Bladeforums for years. Some things have changed for the better, but the brownshoe still remains as smelly as when I left. You've really got to grow up sooner or later, and learn a little damned respect.
 
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