Hawk Lock? Strengths? Weaknesses?

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SkinnyJoe

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Which models have it? Easy/hard to produce a quality piece? Which locking system does it most closely resemble?

Thanks.
 
On the RAM, it's super smooth. Can be flicked open or closed with touching the blade, like an axis. Seems pretty tough to me, maybe not as tough as an axis since its secured in "only" a single liner, but it has other advantages. The placement on the RAM is awkward.

It's the first lock I've seen that gets pretty much all the advantages of the axis lock without being either a pure imitation of the axis, or a direct inspiration from the axis. This is a new system.

I think I like it more than the axis....I think...
 
Great little video; I've never seen a lock quite like this before. The only thing that gives me pause is that the strength is all in the little sheet of steel on the liner where the blade engages and how it's bracketed in there.
 
There's no reason, in principle, you couldn't put a hawk lock on each side and just have to pull both buttons down. It'd probably be one-hand operated like you might a BBL.
 
the new hawk lock customs have the slider on the spine I think, so with that, maybe they also put the lock on both sides. Like maybe it's an inverted U with the lock release on the top.
 
hardheart said:
the new hawk lock customs have the slider on the spine I think, so with that, maybe they also put the lock on both sides. Like maybe it's an inverted U with the lock release on the top.
Click to expand...

The Ram III internally is identical to the original Rams. . .the only difference being the button has been moved from the side to the spine. Which makes the knife symmetrically ambidextrous. . and ofcourse more fun to play with.

I've always likened the Hawk Lock more to the deadbolt system. . .although the axis lock and deadbolt system have a lot in common.

The Hawk Lock was designed to be simple, easy to produce, easy to use, and reliable. It was never the goal to make it the 'strongest', but it's definitely not the weakest. Putting locks on both sides actually wouldn't add much to the strength. The reason is that the lock isn't going to be the first to break. It's more likely that the 1/8 hardened doul in blade would break. I'm not sure at what kind of pressures this would happen. . . but if you're approaching the breaking point of any knife, you're no longer using it as it was intended and you should be packing a crowbar instead of a knife :D

And as a side note, the geometry of the Hawk lock is quite forgiving and reliable. There is no chance of it camming out so this lock is such that something would have to break for the knife to fail. Bad geometry is usually the cause when a knife fails. . .

Gavin
 
I'd like to point out though that while the existing RAM/MUDD isn't SYMMETRICALLY ambidextrous, it is nonetheless ambidextrous. I can just as easily open/close with my left as my right, and the clip is reversible.
 
It's always nice to see the Inventor/Maker of the specific lock/knife pop in and answer questions.

Thanks for doing that Gavin!
 
David Lowry said:
It's always nice to see the Inventor/Maker of the specific lock/knife pop in and answer questions.

Thanks for doing that Gavin!
Click to expand...

Not a problem. . .it's my pleasure. I try and comment on the threads i 'know' about. . it's hard to read everything on there :D

Artfully Martial said:
I'd like to point out though that while the existing RAM/MUDD isn't SYMMETRICALLY ambidextrous, it is nonetheless ambidextrous. I can just as easily open/close with my left as my right, and the clip is reversible.
Click to expand...

I feel the same way about them being ambidextrous. . .but i sometimes get some resistance so i started classifying ambidextrous into two categories, symmetrical and non-symmetrical
 
Gavin, while you're here...

My compliments on the TASK, I saw picture of the prototype and it's already calling my name :) Should feel and operate as well as it looks, but I haven't seen anything but perfection in any blade that came out of your shop.
 
RxEnergy. . .
I'm glad you like the new T.A.S.C. (trigger and safety combined), my dad and i have spent a ton of time perfecting this thing and we're both very pleased with the way it turned out. I'm actually keeping one for myself, which i've never done before :) So far the feedback has been phenomenal. . .i'll be posting some pics on the forums here in a few days. . .

Gavin
 
Sorry for my spelling, I'd blame it on fat fingers, but it's more of my negligence I guess, as I knew what TASC stands for.
Nevertheless I'll be waiting for a chance to snatch one. It already has a special place on top of my list.
 
What is the tolerances for allowing for wear? The video knife seemed fairly tight, with little tolerance for wear.
 
orthogonal1 said:
What is the tolerances for allowing for wear? The video knife seemed fairly tight, with little tolerance for wear.
Click to expand...

It's hard to tell from the video, but there is about .04-.05 left before the lock plate bottoms out on the frame. The angle on the lock face is such that as the lock wears the plate just advances forward ensuring a tight lock up. The lock is ofcourse hardened.. .so i doubt it will wear out in your life time. . .wait how old are you? :D

RxEnergy said:
Sorry for my spelling, I'd blame it on fat fingers, but it's more of my negligence I guess, as I knew what TASC stands for.
Nevertheless I'll be waiting for a chance to snatch one. It already has a special place on top of my list.
Click to expand...

eh. . no problem. . .i wasn't gonna say you couldn't spell ;)


Gavin
 
Gavin, is the all-time best action of the RAM due to the lock design, due to the position of the flipper, or a combination?

I mean to say that when we started getting away from lockbacks some time ago, we started noticing that locks had a huge impact on the way you opened (and closed) your knife. By the time we got to the axis, we could flick open our knives very easily due to the way the axis didn't put pressure on the blade in transit. This lock seems similar.

Yet the RAM opens easier and harder than my axis lock or BBL knives. It has been suggested that the way the lock released the blade has a very slight AO effect that helps it out...but it doesn't seem adequate. My theory is that the leverage of this particular flipper is pretty huge, relative to KO's designs (although this does seem to necessitate the use of a finger choil since it looks like the flipper will stick out of the handle well before the blade in this case).

Anyway, is there more you can tell us about the secret of the RAM's action? I wish I could try a MUDD to compare...
 
Artfully Martial said:
Gavin, is the all-time best action of the RAM due to the lock design, due to the position of the flipper, or a combination
Click to expand...

Artfully. . .that's a good question. . .It's a combination of several things. . .The position of the flipper, being farther forward, does two things. The first advantage is that the stroke is longer, and the second is more leverage because as the blade rotates the flipper actually comes out more before going back down in between the handles. If you take your Ram and watch the position of the flipper as you pull the blade out you'll see what i mean. I think that more people would arrange a flipper this way if they could. . .but the limitations of a liner lock make it difficult.

The main reason a Ram works as well as it does is because the lock only engages the blade in detent and lock up. So there is no drag created by the lock on the blade between detent and lock. When flipping the knife the detent part of the lock plate resists movement, thus building up kinetic energy from your finger on the flipper. Once there is enough pressure to overcome the detent, the lock plate is pushed out of the way, and the blade has nothing to slow it down until the last 20 degrees or so before lock up.

Even though the axis lock is a good lock and very minimal friction is created by the lock while opening, the lock bar still rides the tang of the blade creating friction.

As far as the Ram being called 'slightly assisted' check out this thread that addresses that question
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=583525

Gavin
 
So what we see with the RAM is the combination of a long-stroke flipper and a very low resistance (in transit) lock.

Since the MUDD, as far as I can tell, has no flipper, will we see a less radical action on that knife? I really wish there was one nearby to try.
 
When it comes to the Mudd there is no drag from the lock, but this is substituted with the seals rubbing on the handle frames, creating slight drag. It is still a very smooth knife. . .the other difference from the Ram is the profile of the detent. Where the Ram is meant to be harder to overcome, the Mudd is just meant to hold the knife closed. So the initial overcoming of the Mudd detent is much less. If you open the Ram with the studs on the blade you will feel more resistance compared to the Mudd.

Some where i have a Mudd knife that i took out the seals. . .it's scary smooth! I'm hoping some day to make just a thumb stud/hole opener that uses the same detent profile as the Mudd, it just makes a very slick operating knife. But that design isn't anywhere close to the top of my priorities. . . i'm not really sure what's next.

Gavin
 
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