Hawk or Bowie

I make both and have both around the house.If someone broke into my home id grab a hawk.
 
wildmike said:
I would rather have both. The Hawk has the advantage of being a three dimensional weapon with greater reach shock and versatility. The bowie gets used in the closer interval work.
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Ditto.

Some bowies can be thrown just as well as a tomahawk.

I can hit pretty good up to 20' with a kabar.
 
I would personally like to train with a hawk in one hand and a long knife in the other. I say, 'would... like to...' because I doubt I have the dexterity to properly wield only one.

I would probably go with hawk if I had to choose to train in only one. My impression is a similar length knife/bowie, when compared to even an a metal haft hawk, will be of similar weight but will not generate the same amount of power. Unless the opponent is quite a bit more skilled and or naturally more athletic, the gross motor skill, quickness, power, and greater reach of the hawk will probably be of decided advantage.

Wow, i could not imagine fighting with an 18" bladed bowie, that sounds like it would be extremely fatiguing.
 
Wow, i could not imagine fighting with an 18" bladed bowie, that sounds like it would be extremely fatiguing.

Try 11 & 1/2 inch to 13 inch. This seems to be about the boundaries one would want with a bowie knife length and weight. Yes, there are some really light weight bowies on the market that can help reduce some of the arm fatigue. Now, if you get hung up on the 'Flying Goose' arm swinging technique, the fatigue factor will kick in regardless of the weight. Bowie historian Norm Flayderman in his text Bowie Knife-Unsheathing an American Legend, devotes a chapter to the D-Guard Bowie and how, because of the weight and awkward tool use capability ended up be thrown away or put on the shelf in favor of the smaller knives. Machetes cut brush well because of their thin blades, D-Guards just are not as efficient. Pushing too much mass through the target. There are some historical accounts of entire company-size Confederate units using these really big knives but the weapon lost it's popularity shortly after the war began. Yep! there are numerious pictures of those young soldiers posing with their bowies but the requirements and demands of living in the field and carrying around a combat load really made them change their attitude. Probably the best thing to remember is that few of us really understand the proper use of the large bladed knife. Reason, we just don't pack them around these days except maybe in the bush. Bowies are something we just like to fill in the training gaps between the real world of what one can or should carry. Unless you're in a combat zone or one of those wild parts of the world I think there might be better options. Should one study and train with big knives ? Sure, absolutely but I think we need to keep things in perspective as to what your training priorities are and exactly where the bowie and tomahawk should be on that list. One of the better classes I've attended was taught by Kelly Worden and another by Hoch Hochheim. It was on the machete and delt heavily with defense against such weapons. I think there indeed, may be where the point of emphasis lies for most of us. The myth of the knife duel and the fighting knife are still around today, it's interesting, fun, and good way to keep physically fit. Historically we like the mystique of this but when it's all said and done it's about men acquiring knowledge and learning about how different weapons are used (Both modern and historic). It's the man and the mind that make the weapon. The realization that there is no ultimate weapon or system just degrees of intelligence and experience in how to use the right 'tool' at the right time. Sometime threads such as this accomplish little more than telling us that all of us have got a hell of a lot to learn. That said, there is something that feels right, when you're swinging a tomahawk and bowie around. It fulfills some need and I really could 'give a shit' about whether it is the ultimate solution or fits into some guy's system or not. Maybe this is like drinking beer and telling war-stories...when it's all said and done and some of you guys end up like me retired and old, it is this sort of stuff that comes back in one's dreams and you're glad you did it. So much for romantic bull-shit. Have a great new year guys.

Best
Dwight
 
All that said in the earlier post, I need to consult the experience and vision of everyone that post here. (minus the jerks). Earlier this year during my phasing down of my martial endeavors, I've ran across several e-mail asking for another Bowie video that picks up where the one Hoch and I did back in the 90s. I had talked to Hoch about this and we came to the conclusion that the interest did not measure up to the cost of production. Particularly from those dedicated to making strictly videos. The other aspect being that everyone and his brother were doing u-tube stuff. I guess the world has changed. In October we finished the Tomahawk video for Paladin Press and the director asked that I consider doing another Bowie video that would sort of dove-tail onto what we got going with the tomahawk one. Since I am now out of the martial arts teaching business, I thought that this year might be a good time to finish up this Bowie foolishness with a final video. Bottom line....Is there any interest in another one of these or does the modern market & interest make it not worth the time and effort? What do think? Please post your replys here of email me at:
d-mclemore@worldnet.att.net.

Best
Dwight
 
Dwight I am very interested. Thanks for posting here. I studied kendo for many years so I did alot of real time distance and timeing training with some remarkable men. I have various businesses in a state that unlike my own have no carry permits issued. So I can not carry a firearm so sometimes when I am closeing late at night I carry a bowie IWB usually one of my Bagwell's. Bill is a friend and usually comes to visit once a year. Even though I would agree that a bowie is not practical in modern times it sure feels good knowing it is there and I would much rather defend myself and loved one's with it than say a folder or something more practcal to carry. I might be a relic but I like being a relic. I do extended hunting trips and have hunted asia and africa and all of north america and you are right toteing in your kit a big knife is just to cumbersome but I have a rifle with me so it is not really here for defensive purposes. I have learned the hard way to lighten my kit and carry smaller fixed blade knives with camp chores mostly in mind. But when carrying only a knife with the purpose of defense I still find a bowie to be my best friend. Thanks again Dwight Happy New Year. some of us still want and need your expertise
 
i too would be very interested in a bowie dvd from you Dwight. the thing i like about Paladin Press over others is the production quality. nothing on the market for the bowie knife can match what Paladin could put out so that alone gets me onboard:thumbup:
 
Dwight McLemore said:
That said, there is something that feels right, when you're swinging a tomahawk and bowie around. It fulfills some need and I really could 'give a shit' about whether it is the ultimate solution or fits into some guy's system or not. Maybe this is like drinking beer and telling war-stories...when it's all said and done and some of you guys end up like me retired and old, it is this sort of stuff that comes back in one's dreams and you're glad you did it.
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Dang. I managed to stay out of a bowie thread for over 2 weeks, but can't resist the pull. :) It's only been a few short years since I really did get to carry a big honkin' bowie with me every day, and I'm missing it. Just somethin' about it, that I can't really put my finger on. And I'm glad I took the opportunity to do so while I could.

Wow, i could not imagine fighting with an 18" bladed bowie, that sounds like it would be extremely fatiguing.
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Whole fighting systems developed around the messer, which is basically a really big bowie knife/short sword. Take a look at some of the pages in Leckuchner's messer fighting manual from the 1480's-
Page 22 (use the red numbers at the top to go to the next page, or skip 5 or 10 pages, etc.) If they could do it 500 years ago, I don't see why it should give us such a problem.

The bowie I carried did actually have an 18" blade, so I guess my perspective is somewhat skewed. I don't automatically assume the bowie will have less chopping power than a 'hawk when this topic comes up. After I butchered my doe this season I had the carcass still hanging. A quick snap cut from the bowie would pop right through 4-6 ribs. A full powered swing could snick the whole carcass in half diagonally through the spine and ribs. And it ain't slow. (I might be, but the knife ain't. :) )

So as you can tell, I lean more toward the bowie, but I did go through a phase where I carried a hatchet too. And maybe someday I'll complete that pipe tomahawk and change my tune. It's all good.
 
the possum said:
The bowie I carried did actually have an 18" blade,
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when you say carried are we talking openly or did you conceal it? if you were concealing it you must of been wearing a trench coat bro:D this winter i have been concealing my 10 1/2" bladed Bagwell Hell's Belle. it isn't as easy to carry as a smaller knife by any means but it can be done. i don't think i can do it thru the summer months though. i think it will print too easily under just a t-shirt.

on a side note i think i'm going to get a extra large espada from cold steel when they come out to see how they apply to bowie techniques. the size and weight look pretty good to me for such a thing.
http://www.coldsteel.com/espadaseries.html
 
Crossada I have the large Espada and would not want a bigger folder than that. I think the extra large is just to big more of a novelty
 
stabman said:
So, your hawk has more than 14 inch reach?
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I make my own handles on mine. I prefer 'em a bit on the long side but not too long. I've found that a handle length of 22" - 24" is about right. But then, I'm 6'5" and shorter handles make a tomahawk feel more like a munchkin belt axe to me.
 
crossada said:
when you say carried are we talking openly or did you conceal it? if you were concealing it you must of been wearing a trench coat bro:D this winter i have been concealing my 10 1/2" bladed Bagwell Hell's Belle. it isn't as easy to carry as a smaller knife by any means but it can be done.
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This was mostly open carry. The tip of the scabbard would still be sticking out below the bottom of my jacket/unbuttoned shirt if I was wearing one. And even if I were wearing a longer coat the tip of the scabbard would still be obvious when I bent over or moved around.
 
JParanee said:
Crossada I have the large Espada and would not want a bigger folder than that. I think the extra large is just to big more of a novelty
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what do you think of it quality wise? i don't have many folders to begin with as they are not my thing but i see the value in one of these for self defense when i can't carry my fixed blades easily.

i'm not an expert on the traditional navaja knife by any means but the extra large seems to be about the normal blade length for these things. bigger is better so to speak:cool:

when i do have to carry a folder i only carry them iwb anyway so i don't think the size of the thing will be any trouble for me.
 
Crossada as for quality I am not much into folders I have a few some custom some good prouduction. It is not put together like a cs Talwar which in my opinion is a very well built prouduction folder it is okay kinda nice but kinda chincey if ya know what I mean. I would definately stay away from the XL I feel it is more of a novelty. I think the large is as big as I would want to go in a lockback and would carry well iwb remember it in not a smooth leather sheath you are shoveing in there it is a piece of metal.
Here is a few shots the Bagwell is 14 3/4 so you can get a size idea of the Espada
knives089.jpg

knives091.jpg
 
thanks alot Joe for taking the time to take the pics! i like the looks of it but i might try and find a shop where i can get my hands on it first.

when it comes to folders i always grab my REKAT sifu. it has always been very reliable for me but i carry a fixed about 95% of the time anyway.
 
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