HEADS UP : Buyer from Thailand

Gramps

Gramps

Feedback: +60 / =0 / -0
Joined
Nov 17, 2002
Messages
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I was contacted by a member from Thailand ( with just a few posts..all in the Buy and Sell forum ) who wanted to buy nearly all the knives I have listed for sale in my post. It was tempting....to sell everything in one fell swoop !...but I declined.

He only was willing to pay by personal check...drawn on a California account belonging to a friend of his. I proposed several other methods of payment....PayPal and Money Order ( all US banks issue money orders; his friend who has the California checking account could easily arrange this ). The buyer responded informing me he was only willing to pay by a third party personal check. I suggested again some alternate ways to pay.

I don't know if this was a scam......I have no proof so I will not post the members name. For all I know everything could be on the "square". However, heads up to those who might be contacted by a buyer from Thailand who wants to pay by third party personal check. It's your call....I made mine.

-Regards
 
I guess if one waited for the check to 'clear' before shipping there would be no dangers as the seller. At least none that I can think of.

I certainly wouldn't ship in that circumstance till it did clear though.
 
I guess if one waited for the check to 'clear' before shipping there would be no dangers as the seller. At least none that I can think of.

I certainly wouldn't ship in that circumstance till it did clear though.
Today 12:34 PM
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...I thought about that. However while a bank can release the funds within seven business days.... it is not unheard of for a check to be returned for fraud or "insufficient funds" 30 days latter. In the very best scenario the knives would be "tied up" and unavailable for me to sell for 30 days.

I admit my suspicions may be entirely off base....that is why I will not post the name of the buyer. I do not wish to call into question someone's character without the slightest proof of wrong-doing. I want to stress I could be WAY OFF base; if there is no harm....there is no foul !

-regards
 
You did the right thing. Whether he's legit or not, the method of payment proposed by him would send me running the other way. Too many things can go wrong there.
 
Thanks for Heads-Up. Thailand is a growing market for knives. For the time being, there are three Thai websites for knife-knuts, it is a small circles though. Some of their members have bought several knives in BF with good reputation. You may cross-check with BF members from Thailand as well. I certainly believe that they will help you sort things out.
 
SuperD said:
I guess if one waited for the check to 'clear' before shipping there would be no dangers as the seller. At least none that I can think of.

I certainly wouldn't ship in that circumstance till it did clear though.
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The problem with that approach is the way the banking industry works these days it is very damn difficult to find out whether a check really has cleared. The whole concept of a check clearing is basically obsolete. You deposit the check, you see the bank has put the money in your account, you think that means the check has cleared and you're safe -- you are wrong. A few days later the bank tells you that check was a forgery and they take the money back. Or maybe it'll be a week later, or longer. Who knows.... You can try to get someone at the bank to give you a statement in writing that the check really has cleared and they're not going to renege on that ... you can try. Good luck with that....
 
Good info all around. I just completed a sale with a buyer in Germany, and am now waiting on his personal check (on a U.S. account) to arrive and clear.
Only difference between me and Gramps is that I checked BF for any history of the buyer in other transactions, and found he's had good feedback, and been a member since at least '02. And, communication with him has been very good so far. I feel pretty safe.
 
I guess I wasn't aware of these issues. I thought with the federal "Check 21" law a couple years back all checks cleared within 2-3 business days. If there were insufficient funds you would know within that time.

I guess forgery would be another matter I hadn't thought about. Makes sense that with a forged check, banks could 'reclaim' the funds after it had cleared when they discovered it was forged.
 
Cougar Allen said:
The problem with that approach is the way the banking industry works these days it is very damn difficult to find out whether a check really has cleared. The whole concept of a check clearing is basically obsolete. You deposit the check, you see the bank has put the money in your account, you think that means the check has cleared and you're safe -- you are wrong. A few days later the bank tells you that check was a forgery and they take the money back. Or maybe it'll be a week later, or longer. Who knows.... You can try to get someone at the bank to give you a statement in writing that the check really has cleared and they're not going to renege on that ... you can try. Good luck with that....
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Yes....this is the information I have too. Typically a bank can definitively report a check to be "officially" cleared within 14 business days....but some accounts may take up to 30 days, as "problematic" checks are submitted to the clearance process a second time which further lengthens the waiting period. If at any point, even after the check has been declared "clear", the bank draft is called into question, the here-to-fore deposited amount is withdrawn from your account....and your only recourse is to try to recover directly from the party who wrote the "bad" check. The banking institutions are not liable for insufficiently funded accounts or fraudulent checks. All risk is assumed by the party that accepts the personal check as form of payment. A personal check is essentially nothing more than a personal "marker." Retailers lose millions of dollars annually because of personal checks written on accounts that are insufficiently funded or fraudulent ; the major deterrent to the "average' individual is the issuance of a poor credit rating as the result of such "activity."

-regards
 
The law limits how long they can delay giving you the money. It does not prevent them taking it back, unfortunately.
 
My bank won't touch a third party check at all. No exceptions. I tried to cash a paycheck for my daughter, that she signed over to me and they would not even let me deposit it.
 
Cougar Allen said:
The law limits how long they can delay giving you the money. It does not prevent them taking it back, unfortunately.
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Coug is exactly right. We have debited clients' accounts months after the fact if a check comes back with a problem. We can only hold the funds for so long, but we have legal recourse for a much longer time period. More times than not though, the bank ends up eating some or all of the loss because usually there's no money or not enough money in the account to take by that time. At that point we report the loss and it goes on the depositor's national record and will show up every time you try to open an account somewhere, and sometimes it even shows up on credit reports...
 
UPDATE : I have a third party correspondence from someone which leads me to believe that any suspicions I may have are probably unfounded. I am relieved I did not reveal the name of the buyer in question, and although I remain wary of payment by third party check, I HAVE NO PARTICULAR REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THIS INDIVIDUAL IS ANYTHING BUT HONORABLE. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY.

- regards
 
Gramps said:
UPDATE : I have a third party correspondence from someone which leads me to believe that any suspicions I may have are probably unfounded. I am relieved I did not reveal the name of the buyer in question, and although I remain wary of payment by third party check, I HAVE NO PARTICULAR REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THIS INDIVIDUAL IS ANYTHING BUT HONORABLE. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY.

- regards
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Gramps I still would be VERY careful. My companie builds data centers. Among other things we sell large generators. At least twice a week I have a sales person come to me with what sounds like the same scam. "We will send you a check for $1000 over what you are asking :rolleyes: + shipping cost. Cash the check, give our driver what he is owed with the genset loaded, and keep the rest for yourself) Probably not the same thing.... I would just use caution;)
 
Hey guys, check the Uniform Commercial Code on Negotiable Instruments (checks, money orders, etc.). First, your situation did not involve a third party check; you were going to get the check directly from his friend and drawn on a U.S. bank, payable to your order. That makes it a negotiable instrument, and under the UCC, once the check clears the Federal Reserve System and the bank releases the funds into your account as "available funds," the bank's recourse against you becomes virtually unenforceable after 14 business days. And while most banks have adopted policies that they will not accept third-party checks (i.e., a check made payable "to the order of Mr. X" who in turn endorses it on the rear as "payable to the order of Mr. Y," the issuing bank still must cash the check for Mr. Y, assuming there are sufficient funds in the original drawer's account. Note though, the magic words are "pay to THE ORDER OF." If you simply write "pay to," then the check ceases to be a negotiable instrument.
Just my 2 cents, and yes, I admit it, by day I am a lawyer (for my great State).
I don't mean to sound didactic; just trying to help.
 
Hi Gramps.

I'm from Thailand and buy serveral knives from many big name members in BF. and never have problem, what ever pay by Bank Draft, Western Union Money Transfer, or PayPal.

Could you please specify name of that Thai' Member, otherwise the other members from Thailand will get in to dificulty for next business.

Thanks.
 
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