KnuckleDownKnives
Time to make the doughnuts..
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2015
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- 1,715
Looking great JT..
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Heat Treat Oven - WIP
- Thread starter JTknives
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2006
- Messages
- 8,633
Ok small update time. Got all the bricks in the oven and what do you know thy fit perfect.
Since all the bricks are cut the same I decided to set up the bandsaw with a few stops so I can cut each brick identical.
brick with its cut. The cut is 3" long and removed 1/2" of material.
And this is how thy stack
just a few bricks left
Everything fit great
Very tight fit upto the front angle iron. No sloppy bricks here
Door closes just like it should with a nice even seal around the entire surface.
Let's peek inside a little.
Now the waiting begins, I'm waiting for all the electronics to arive. I was able to just order the tap controller stright from the manufacture so that was nice. Also the elament rods are ordered and I'm finishing up my order for the control box guts.
Thanks guys
Since all the bricks are cut the same I decided to set up the bandsaw with a few stops so I can cut each brick identical.
brick with its cut. The cut is 3" long and removed 1/2" of material.
And this is how thy stack
just a few bricks left
Everything fit great
Very tight fit upto the front angle iron. No sloppy bricks here
Door closes just like it should with a nice even seal around the entire surface.
Let's peek inside a little.
Now the waiting begins, I'm waiting for all the electronics to arive. I was able to just order the tap controller stright from the manufacture so that was nice. Also the elament rods are ordered and I'm finishing up my order for the control box guts.
Thanks guys
Andre Basset
knifemaker - field engineer
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2012
- Messages
- 249
Looking forward to seeing this as it develops!
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- Jun 11, 2006
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- 8,633
So this little beauty showed up yesterday. I was able to bypass evenheat and go stright to the manufacture for the TAP controller. I paid a little more for it then off went the "upgrade" route through usknifemaker but my controller does not say evenheat in the display lol.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2013
- Messages
- 1,220
As for me there is too less insulation.
Where is layer 2 and 3?
Kiln wil be not safe to touch ( fire hazard also), and you will have a big heat loss.
Histeresis of this kiln also will be messy....
TAP control unit...
If they not implement in software a proper Auto-adaptation and self calibration algoritm, and maybe a Fuzzy Logic you will have a lot of problems with overshot.
In that long kiln you should have TWO Thermocouples in Titanium-Inconel shield, you can be very suprised about temperature distribution
Where is layer 2 and 3?
Kiln wil be not safe to touch ( fire hazard also), and you will have a big heat loss.
Histeresis of this kiln also will be messy....
TAP control unit...
If they not implement in software a proper Auto-adaptation and self calibration algoritm, and maybe a Fuzzy Logic you will have a lot of problems with overshot.
In that long kiln you should have TWO Thermocouples in Titanium-Inconel shield, you can be very suprised about temperature distribution
I am no expert but all you said is true. I learnt it the hard way. Miniature Size Thermocouple may help with overshoot but they won't last as long as the normal one. Putting thermocouples in shield will increase the lag time and may cause overshoot....As for me there is too less insulation.
Where is layer 2 and 3?
Kiln wil be not safe to touch ( fire hazard also), and you will have a big heat loss.
Histeresis of this kiln also will be messy....
TAP control unit...
If they not implement in software a proper Auto-adaptation and self calibration algoritm, and maybe a Fuzzy Logic you will have a lot of problems with overshot.
In that long kiln you should have TWO Thermocouples in Titanium-Inconel shield, you can be very suprised about temperature distribution
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2006
- Messages
- 8,633
Ok I have been slowly working on it in the background and forgot to keep you guys updated. But befor the update lets address the above comments.
First off let me start by saying I don't know your background or experience with heat treat ovens but one thing is apparent. This is that you do not approve of any of the ovens that we "americans" buy or build. In my research your posts always come up saying that the ovens we have access to buying are a joke. But besides your most recent oven build I have not seen any proof that you can actually back up your posts with hard data. Will more insulation keep the oven skin cooler, yes it will. But where do we draw the efficacy line and say enough is enough. As to my oven not being safe to touch and being a fire hazard I say what in my shop or anyone else's shop is not a fire hazard. Hell I run 2 forges for non stop all day long and don't expect to be able to touch them let alone not start a fire if I where to set something flammable on them. But that brings us to the other fact that paragon who by many grea knife makers consider it one of the best if not the best oven manufacture for what we need. And if you notice thy use only fire brick and alot of there kilns/ovens use 2.5" thick brick and 3" brick is considered there premium brick. Even in the large kilns for pottery thy use 3" thick brick. Yes thy offer some kilns with 4.5" thick walls for there high cone firing temps but that's way above anything we need. So I say to you if paragon feels that it's safe to use 2.5" brick in there ovens and then cut a groove for there elaments to sit in which now makes the brick about 2" thick right at the elaments I think my 3" thick brick with no elament grooves will be ok.
Now that that's out of the way lets get on with the pictures.
The rods arrived and look like thy will work out perfect.
I proceeded to cut the notches for the rods to rest in. Handy use for an old drill press.
All the notches are cut and the rods fit like a glove.
You can see the rods along the roof. This picture make the bricks look out of square but thy are not.
All my guts started showing up so I figured it was time to tackle the control box
First up lay out the opening for the tap controller.
Used the plasma cutter to court out the holes for the tap controller and the main switch/breaker
Because I don't want the control box mounted right onto the side of the oven I needed a way to hold it out away and these coupling nuts worked perfect.
Getting all the guts in place and trying to wrangle all the wires into an organised layout.
Got everything in place with a temporary 120v plug and fired it up.
Programmed a simple heat treat program and started it. And low and behold the guts came alive. The SSRs fired right up and everything seams to be functioning.
Next up is the elament which also showed up.
Got it all stretched to the needed length for installing on the rods.
And here is how well the rod fits inside the coil. So everything is looking good so far.
In all the chaos of ordering I forgot to order elament terminal blocks and ceramic pass through tubes for the elaments as well as insulated 10ga wire. So that will be ordered in the next few days and I should be set.
Thanks guys
First off let me start by saying I don't know your background or experience with heat treat ovens but one thing is apparent. This is that you do not approve of any of the ovens that we "americans" buy or build. In my research your posts always come up saying that the ovens we have access to buying are a joke. But besides your most recent oven build I have not seen any proof that you can actually back up your posts with hard data. Will more insulation keep the oven skin cooler, yes it will. But where do we draw the efficacy line and say enough is enough. As to my oven not being safe to touch and being a fire hazard I say what in my shop or anyone else's shop is not a fire hazard. Hell I run 2 forges for non stop all day long and don't expect to be able to touch them let alone not start a fire if I where to set something flammable on them. But that brings us to the other fact that paragon who by many grea knife makers consider it one of the best if not the best oven manufacture for what we need. And if you notice thy use only fire brick and alot of there kilns/ovens use 2.5" thick brick and 3" brick is considered there premium brick. Even in the large kilns for pottery thy use 3" thick brick. Yes thy offer some kilns with 4.5" thick walls for there high cone firing temps but that's way above anything we need. So I say to you if paragon feels that it's safe to use 2.5" brick in there ovens and then cut a groove for there elaments to sit in which now makes the brick about 2" thick right at the elaments I think my 3" thick brick with no elament grooves will be ok.
Now that that's out of the way lets get on with the pictures.
The rods arrived and look like thy will work out perfect.
I proceeded to cut the notches for the rods to rest in. Handy use for an old drill press.
All the notches are cut and the rods fit like a glove.
You can see the rods along the roof. This picture make the bricks look out of square but thy are not.
All my guts started showing up so I figured it was time to tackle the control box
First up lay out the opening for the tap controller.
Used the plasma cutter to court out the holes for the tap controller and the main switch/breaker
Because I don't want the control box mounted right onto the side of the oven I needed a way to hold it out away and these coupling nuts worked perfect.
Getting all the guts in place and trying to wrangle all the wires into an organised layout.
Got everything in place with a temporary 120v plug and fired it up.
Programmed a simple heat treat program and started it. And low and behold the guts came alive. The SSRs fired right up and everything seams to be functioning.
Next up is the elament which also showed up.
Got it all stretched to the needed length for installing on the rods.
And here is how well the rod fits inside the coil. So everything is looking good so far.
In all the chaos of ordering I forgot to order elament terminal blocks and ceramic pass through tubes for the elaments as well as insulated 10ga wire. So that will be ordered in the next few days and I should be set.
Thanks guys
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- Jul 31, 2015
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That is a really nice death trap you're building there. I would appreciate it if you would put that in your will for me, as you are surely not long for this world. 😂
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- Jun 11, 2006
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I think the wife is more excited for it then I am. She has visions of making small glass bobbles for her jewellery lol. Everything is run through a 32amp beaker and the low voltage transformer has an inline fuse of 1amp. I will be installing a door disconnect as well once my other split collars show up. With a build like this it's the thousand little details that hold up the show. But I have been taking my time and enjoying to build instead of rushing the project. But a big help was evenheats wiring diagrams. I basically just copied there layout as we know there system is safe.
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- Jul 31, 2015
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I hear you. While not near as nice as yours, my oven build has taken a back seat to summer trips, home improvement projects and oppressively hot temps.
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- Aug 5, 2014
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- 213
Hey JT for some reason I'm getting broken image links on your second to last (big) post. Would love to see! 
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JT: Mostly my concern about US made kilns are - Energy efficency.
With better insulation you save energy and have lower energy bill...
And also kiln need to be properly made to meet Work Safety regulations. (Otherwise in EU you will not get insurance for a workshop)
Also why US kilns are made like this?
- Because it's cheap.
Ask industrial kiln makers what they think about them
With better insulation you save energy and have lower energy bill...
And also kiln need to be properly made to meet Work Safety regulations. (Otherwise in EU you will not get insurance for a workshop)
Also why US kilns are made like this?
- Because it's cheap.
Ask industrial kiln makers what they think about them
Kevin - are you just joking with Keith? OR, do you really think something he's doing is dangerous? From what I see he's taking care to have a safe oven and surely seems to understand what he's doing.
Keith - keep up the good work. With heating elements in top as well as sides that should heat up faster than the commercial oven I have.
Ken H>
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- Jul 31, 2015
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That was a joke.
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- Jul 31, 2015
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- 3,118
I'd you saw my build you would know I am way behind this one. Im thinking of naming her "Sparky" 😁
Matthew Gregory
Chief Executive in charge of Entertainment
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2005
- Messages
- 6,366
JT: Mostly my concern about US made kilns are - Energy efficency.
With better insulation you save energy and have lower energy bill...
And also kiln need to be properly made to meet Work Safety regulations. (Otherwise in EU you will not get insurance for a workshop)
Also why US kilns are made like this?
- Because it's cheap.
Ask industrial kiln makers what they think about them
I have to agree with Kosa_PL on this, and a number of his other observations. Both Paragon and Evenheat are the furthest thing from 'professional' furnaces, and I highly doubt too many tool rooms see their use. They're predominantly for folks just like us that make a handful of blades, or wish to experiment with heat treating. Cress is a company that comes to mind for a slight upgrade (without entering into the realm of vacuum or hugely controlled atmosphere units).
I'm concerned that you've replicated a Paragon design, and will probably be faced with many of the same issues that unit has. I have a 36" model in my garage, awaiting a new controller, and I've been debating for months whether or not it's even worth it due to the inconsistency of heat distribution.
I hope I'm wrong, in your case!
Beautiful build, for sure!:thumbup: