Heat Treatment - Crystal Weaving Foundation

Damn I just read 34 pages that transpired over the last two years. My head hurts and like most things in life. The more I learn. The less I know and the thirst develops. Humbling to see and hear from the combined wealth of knowledge in these parts.
 
Revolverrodger said:
Was the protocol for crystal weaving heat treat published ?
I would like to try it myself
Thanks
Click to expand...

It’s been awhile and I am glad someone is going to give it a try. I think Luong posted the CWF 1.0 steps either on this thread or another but one can search easily all threads started by him.
:thumbsup:
 
bluntcut said:
I am still w/o a shop ... Test below has something to do with Newton's Laws of Motion Inertia Frame of Reference for moving object.

Testing a field knife ability at impact and shock.

Specs:
Vanadis 4E, 0.150" thick, 6.7" blade length, 8.5 oz
64rc via CWF HT 2.5

Sharpened:
18dps (degrees per side). freehand 120 SiC; EdgePro 180 SiC to burrs; EP 400 SiC to burrs and deburred; fh 600 diamond; fh 1200 diamond refined & cleaned apex.

Thickness:
0.015" at edge shoulder; 0.024" 1/8" up from apex; 0.045" 1/4" up from apex.

Primary bevel/grind slightly less than 4.7 dps.

Test materials:
2x4, oak, eucalytus, cardboard, pork rib bone, copper wire, thin tin can, 12D nail.


Edge after baton+chop+shock with/against 12D nail
mz2o3sx.jpg
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Hi Luong!

Glad you haven’t abandoned the project!
:D
 
Idahonotu said:
Damn I just read 34 pages that transpired over the last two years. My head hurts and like most things in life. The more I learn. The less I know and the thirst develops. Humbling to see and hear from the combined wealth of knowledge in these parts.
Click to expand...
You possess rare mondo patience skills. Thanks.


Chris "Anagarika" said:
It’s been awhile and I am glad someone is going to give it a try. I think Luong posted the CWF 1.0 steps either on this thread or another but one can search easily all threads started by him.
:thumbsup:
Click to expand...
From catch up reading/scanning - esp from a closed thread - cwf ht probably will remains as(by majority) public noise. Of course, supporters and objective posters are well appreciated!

Chris "Anagarika" said:
Hi Luong!

Glad you haven’t abandoned the project!
:D
Click to expand...
Thanks Chris!

Very early on, I stated metallurgy is applied part of my physics endeavor.

Ahead, I need to build a dust+sound almost-proof knife shop. Then, get access to cool metalworks instruments. Thereafter, it's reasonable to envision cwf ht progresses from 2.5 to 3.0.
 
Test my suspicion on shock toughness of steels with high % Chromium, niolox in this case.

Niolox, 1/4" thick, 6.5" L
64rc

18dps, 0.017" behind edge thick

Shock by 12D = complete cut through, chipped edge.
Shock by 16D nail = failed to cut nail, chipped edge.
Chop 16D nail = failed to cut nail, chipped edge.


Edge afterward
L4s6sH4.jpg
 
Shock test - 16d nail on block strikes at blade.

All with 18dps (36 degrees inclusive, sharpened with edgepro)

Nitro-V (similar to 14C28N with small added vanadium alloy)
63rc, 0.013" BET
65rc, 0.017" BET

Vanadis4E
64rc, 0.017" BET

Part 1 of 2: 15 minutes video

Part 2 of 2:
Shock test - 16d nail on block strikes at blade.

All with 18dps (36 degrees inclusive, sharpened with edgepro and freehand)

Nitro-V (similar to 14C28N with small added vanadium alloy)
63rc, ~0.023" BET
65rc, ~0.023" BET

Vanadis4E
64rc, ~0.023" BET

8 minutes video
 
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what kind of rust/corrosion/patina resistance tests have you done on your heat treatment? i was just curious to know if the weaving helps or hurts in corrosion. would like to know, not only of the stainless steels but steels known to rust or patina.

if this has been discussed before, there were to many pages to sift threw, im sorry.

iirc, steels like 3V can be more rust resistant with a different temper? like D3V. but i noticed you dont always have to temper using CWF from what ive read in this thread sofar (or am i mistaken?). Can you explain why CWF reacts the way it does (if better or worse)?
 
Since CWF ht is between untempered and low temper (325-450f), thus doesn’t precip CrC, which should has similar corrosion as other ht with low temper and similar austenite temperature.
Poke on crppy phone so response is terse.

Mo2 said:
what kind of rust/corrosion/patina resistance tests have you done on your heat treatment? i was just curious to know if the weaving helps or hurts in corrosion. would like to know, not only of the stainless steels but steels known to rust or patina.

if this has been discussed before, there were to many pages to sift threw, im sorry.

iirc, steels like 3V can be more rust resistant with a different temper? like D3V. but i noticed you dont always have to temper using CWF from what ive read in this thread sofar (or am i mistaken?). Can you explain why CWF reacts the way it does (if better or worse)?
Click to expand...
 
(re)Building my small metalworks shop, hopefully up and running in 2-3 weeks.

3 new ht ideas are driven me to push for cwf ht 3.0: nanograin for carbon steels and balanced attributes for hard usage at 64+rc for carbon and most high alloy steels.

Ordered more steels. Looking forward to ht more carbon steels - reaching nanograin w/o defects which(via inferenced) were smaller than SEM/BSED resolution.
 
Servicing edge outside of normal usage tests - whittle pork rib bone.

S110V 0.072" thick
65rc with CWF HT 2.5
15dps, 0.0095" BET, 0.0185" thick 1/8" up from edge

5m19s

Closeup of edge after tests
15dps:
BC6JAVZ.jpg

sub 10dps:
UrKQlOZ.jpg


================

Placed an order for some CPM T-15 to test and make into knives.
 
Well, BCMW shop is operational and crammed. It will stays much cleaner this time around via 1hp dust 3 stages collector, 1 inline 480cfm duct exhaust fan.

I will start experiment with cwf ht 3.0. Aiming for good gain of toughness (at parity hardness) for carbon, range of alloy% steels. Start with high alloy: D2 (target 64rc), if/when good D2 result then follow by M2, then CPM-T15. Carbon steels (W2, 52100, 1095, O1, cruforgeV,..) next. Continue with Niolox, aeb-l, nitro-v, s30v, n695/440c...

Hard test materials: pork rib bone, cow shin bone, nail 12d & 16d.

zdNLSWV.jpg
 
bluntcut, thank you for continuing your work. I love the detail you share, and methodical approach. I hope you really make ht 3.0 a reality : )

I personally expect you'll never get a high toughness out of d2, (or anything with 1.5%+ carbon can't be very tough)
I really expect aeb-l and niolox to be interesting when you get the ht dialed in
 
Your assessment is reasonable, it does reflect well in practice :thumbsup:

Well, I got some ht ideas, so try and try I will ...

Empirically D2 is brittle above 62rc, so at 64rc it will be guarantee chippy when baton/chop against a nail. Instead of clean brittle chips, hopefully ht 3.0 D2 edge exhibit some measurable deformation/plasticity around perimeter of chipped sites and of course welcome rippled apex. Basically use a very low toughness steel, so improvement can easily observe. In contrast, a smaller improvement in M2 would require large sample to get decent statistical confident in observed improvement %.

HT 2.5 Aeb-l and nitro-v 64rc has good micro toughness but macro chip against nail. Given a working ht 3.0, these steels should deform when impact with or by 12d nail, and small rippled-chipped (couldn't bend far enough before fracture) against 16d nail.

*note: 95+% of the time, I project/predict the outcome first then do the experiments.

dirc said:
bluntcut, thank you for continuing your work. I love the detail you share, and methodical approach. I hope you really make ht 3.0 a reality : )

I personally expect you'll never get a high toughness out of d2, (or anything with 1.5%+ carbon can't be very tough)
I really expect aeb-l and niolox to be interesting when you get the ht dialed in
Click to expand...
 
Indeed D2 large 10-100um MC/primary-carbide should wouldn't flow, thus crack nucleation/initiation sites. That why I will look for deformation at perimeter of chipped sites and hopefully for some ripples. When chipping no larger than nail diameter, which mean matrix absorb/distributed impact well (i.e. some toughness) however impact load exceeded yield. For context - a large half moon chip would indicate matrix is brittle (very little plasticity).

Lapedog said:
I imagine those huge chromium carbides also lead to many points where very bad chipping can occur.
Click to expand...
 
D2 HT 3.0 Experiment result. HT Target 64rc: Produced 63rc (between 63 and 63.5)

Whittle pork rib bone test: easy passed. Edge still slice phone book paper cleanly.

Pressure/push and gentle-chop dried cow shin bone: Edge hesitated/skippy slice phone book paper (didn't tear the paper). Closeup pics below

VcLooit.jpg


Tomorrow, I will put a 18dps, ~0.020-0.022" thick edge on this test blade, then chop a 12d nail and shock by 16d nail.

M2 and CPM T-15 blades are ready and will get ht 3.0 (with 2200F aust temperature). Target hrc 64 and 66 respectively. Keep in mind, these steels peak hrc is about 3rc higher than target.
 
Edge of D2 63rc HT 3.0 shocked by 12D and 16D nails. ~18dps, 0.023" behind edge thick.

Rp9EAsC.jpg


I am glad seeing quite a bit more edge deformation than predicted.

M2 hardening aust at 2150F, CPM T-15 hardening aust at 2200F. Both are cryoing in LN2...

Edit 1: Initial hrc (w/o grind decarb if any) - M2 63.5-64rc; CPM T15 65.5-66rc. Upping the temper temperature a little bit, so hrc could lower by 0.5rc. Will do some cleaning grind and re-check hrc once done 2x temper for working/testing edge.
 
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HT 3.0 improved strength and toughness over ht 2.5.

CPM T15: 65rc, freehand 15dps, 0.020" behind edge thick

M2: 64rc, freehand 15dps, 0.020" behind edge thick

Steels composition: http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=CPM Rex T15,m2&hrn=1&gm=0

Tests:
chop 2x4, oak, dry eucalyptus
whittle African Blackwood, cow femur bone
light chop cow femur bone

Closeup pics of CPM T15 and M2 edges after the test
M2:
Lpvw1fA.jpg


T15:
gy4eJQ8.jpg


Video 15m21s
 
What changed from HT 2.5 to HT 3.0, and could these changes apply to other steels you have treated with HT 2.5 (like niolox)? Do you think this will make these extremely high hardness steels even less prone to chipping?
 
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